NGT - How to deal with NFT like the Jenn Sterger Interview (edit by Vette)

[Philosophers]

Mike - I think you are naive to think that just because there are lawyers devoted to employee discrimination that it means that if there is a problem, individuals should not be afraid.  The fact is that many companies will virtually blacklist any potential candidate who sues his/her company over sexual harassment.  While there are obviously some very good cases by some, there are others who are flakes.  A potential company may blend the two groups and not bother to even consider that person for employment.  Additionally, a person who has spent their entire career in an industry (say 20+ years) feels tremendous pressure that if they sue, they will likely never be able to get a job again in an industry in which they've devoted their lives.

By the way, just to be clear, I didn't start this post by suggesting that she had it coming to her or anything like that.  What Favre did was wrong.

I will say that I doubt a self-professed party girl from FSU was making astute business decisions in choosing to get a boob job at 18, 19 20 or whenever she did.  Additionally, she recently said that now she wants them removed because she said that folks don't take her seriously.  She's gorgeous and a 100% diehard sports fan so I give her tremendous kudos for that.  If I were her parent, I'd have told her that a long term route to success would probably have been better than making short term decisions with long term consequences.

[T200]

"While at that team, she was the subject of harassment.  She chose not to report that harassment and never made a single complaint to anyone, other than talking to her friends about her life. "

This is the biggest key of all for me.  If we are going to take sexual harassment seriously it HAS TO BE REPORTED IMMEDIATELY.  Anything less means that the attention was, at best, welcome or warranted, and at worst, ignored.  Unless it is made clear that the actions taken are offensive, the "victim" loses all credibility.  Favre is culpable for harassment.  Sterger is equally culpable for not reporting it.  

I don't hold her accountable for the situation just because she didn't report the harassment.  Consider that the incident with Inez Sainz was still fresh, Sterger clearly didn't want that kind of scrutiny heaped on her.  Let's face it, when it comes to sexual harassment/rape, more often than not, it's the victimized woman who is put on trial, not the offender. The woman has to defend her actions before the light is cast on the perpetrator.  How is that just?

Mike/T200,

I'm not suggesting that Sterger's refusal to quickly report the harassment in any way condones Favres behavior.  Nor am I suggesting that Favre's actions weren't disgusting.  I'm not even suggesting that her failure to report it makes his behavior warranted.  I'm simply suggesting that if she had reported this quickly and quietly, it would not have garnered the media frenzy that happened later as a result of her waiting.  She probably could have even made the report anonymously.  I totally agree that most women that are victimized by harassment are reluctant to step forward because of the scrutiny it will place on them, but I think it's a terribly weak excuse.  I have a hard time believing an employer would fire a female who reported sexual harassment, usually they are more than accomodating to make sure that the behavior doesn't continue (possibly by firing the perpetrator), and that male colleagues are made aware of what is and isn't acceptable.  I think not reporting it sends one of two messages.  One is that the contact/behavior is ok.  Two is that the texts (in this case) were being ignored.  Neither sends a distinct message to stop.  There was also rumors that Sterger sent a text saying "If that is you in the picture you have a reason to smile", in reference to a picture of Favre's manhood.  If true, it totally undermines her credibility that the contact was unwarranted. 

I think most self respecting females who are made uncomfortable at work by sexual harassment report it immediately.  Until females see it as the best option, this will only be cyclical.

Zeph,

So you're saying that if Jenn had reported the harassment quietly that it would not have garnered the media attention? Think about it for a minute: an anonymous woman claims Brett Fav-ruh harassed her. You don't think that would get leaked to the media?

As far as a woman getting fired, companies are savvy enough not to fire someone for reporting harassment.  They can be sued for reprisal.  However, what they can do is make the job situation so untenable that the woman would eventually quit on her own.  Not saying that all companies do that, but some indeed do.  There's a stigma attached to snitches.  Nobody likes 'em.  More often than not, women who are harassed/raped are not perceived to be the victim.  Instead they are the instigator by dressing provocatively, showing their skin off to a bunch of testosterone-filled jocks.  In the eyes of many, they get what they're looking for.  Unfortunately, the guys see the tight jeans as an invitation to cross the line.  It simply isn't.

Let's say Lucy Pinder, out of nowhere, walks up to you, flashes her goodies in your face, and you comment, "Wow, VERY NICE!"  Does that mean the contact was warranted, simply because you complimented her assets without an iota of contact prior?

[vette]

From this point on, I would appreciate it if everyone here would refrain from commenting on the topic of sexual harassment and comment on how we can manage Non Football Topics. We are not going to re-open the Back Porch.

Here is my opinion on threads that are out of topic or off topic. I think that there are some topics that usually wind up on the front porch that are nice to read and to participate in. Then there are topics like Politics, religion and topics sensitive from personal perspective where discussion can turn into vehement disagreement or lead to comments offensive to certain individuals.

I believe that any friendly topic that will bring the community together is fine. The others are not. Some doors should not be opened and to quote Mojo as Kevin reminded me on Sunday, "There are some things I just don't want to know about you guys because I like you all and I want to keep liking you guys."

This started out with someone commenting on the behavior of a young woman and it lead to a discussion on sexual harassment. That's a topic that doesn't belong on a football board. So, how can this be managed without the moderators being accused of being heavy handed?

Your thoughts?

[Sect122Mike]

Mike - I think you are naive to think that just because there are lawyers devoted to employee discrimination that it means that if there is a problem, individuals should not be afraid.  The fact is that many companies will virtually blacklist any potential candidate who sues his/her company over sexual harassment.  While there are obviously some very good cases by some, there are others who are flakes.  A potential company may blend the two groups and not bother to even consider that person for employment.  Additionally, a person who has spent their entire career in an industry (say 20+ years) feels tremendous pressure that if they sue, they will likely never be able to get a job again in an industry in which they've devoted their lives.

By the way, just to be clear, I didn't start this post by suggesting that she had it coming to her or anything like that.  What Favre did was wrong.

I will say that I doubt a self-professed party girl from FSU was making astute business decisions in choosing to get a boob job at 18, 19 20 or whenever she did.  Additionally, she recently said that now she wants them removed because she said that folks don't take her seriously.  She's gorgeous and a 100% diehard sports fan so I give her tremendous kudos for that.  If I were her parent, I'd have told her that a long term route to success would probably have been better than making short term decisions with long term consequences.

Actually Philosophers, I said exactly the opposite.  The fact that there are lawyers devoted to employee discrimination means that if there is a problem individuals should be afraid.  The fact is that many employees who report abuse are blacklisted, fired, held back from promotions, given terrible job assignments and otherwise punished for being nothing other than a victim.  I thought I made my feelings clear on this, I am sorry if I was confusing.  

My only issue with your post was that you seem to suggest this woman made terrible choices and her parents did a bad job.  Both of which I disagree with, the later VERY strongly.  Frankly, who are you to judge parents whom you do not know anything about.  

She has made more money in her career than I have and she is a generation younger than me. I'd call that success.  There is nothing wrong with being a "party girl" when you are young.  I tend to think little of people who frown upon girls who get boob jobs and use their sexuality to their advantage.  I think a woman who does this is maximizing her options and making a tremendous decision.  As you said, she can undo it later (and she already has had them removed).  

I disagree that getting the boob job automatically has long term consequences when I think its clear for her that it has had long term benefits.  Anyone can do basic math to decide whether the medical risks of a boob job (which are minimal) outweigh the benefits.  She did that and I think its clear she made the right choice.  I guess everyone has moral views that filter their overall positions.  Mine are clearly different than yours.  I still see a young girl who achieved tremendous success in two very difficult fields, modeling and media personality.  I wish her more success.

[vette]

From this point on, I would appreciate it if everyone here would refrain from commenting on the topic of sexual harassment and comment on how we can manage Non Football Topics. We are not going to re-open the Back Porch.

Here is my opinion on threads that are out of topic or off topic. I think that there are some topics that usually wind up on the front porch that are nice to read and to participate in. Then there are topics like Politics, religion and topics sensitive from personal perspective where discussion can turn into vehement disagreement or lead to comments offensive to certain individuals.

I believe that any friendly topic that will bring the community together is fine. The others are not. Some doors should not be opened and to quote Mojo as Kevin reminded me on Sunday, "There are some things I just don't want to know about you guys because I like you all and I want to keep liking you guys."

This started out with someone commenting on the behavior of a young woman and it lead to a discussion on sexual harassment. That's a topic that doesn't belong on a football board. So, how can this be managed without the moderators being accused of being heavy handed?

Your thoughts?

[Philosophers]

Vette - we've discussed NFT here like a person wanting advice for a boss who hates him or the Frozen Four or many other things that have no bearing on football.  One of the things I love about this board is the civility with which people talk to each other.  We're not in football season and as you can see by the little activity on this board of new topics, I thought it was an interesting topic (from a variety of angles).

Sorry if I offended you or anyone.  Not trying to.

Thanks Mike for a good discussion.  We're on different sides on this.  I respect yours.

[vette]

Phil, I'm not offended but I received a flag from one of the members. We the moderators decided to see how it played out until that flag.

Do you think in retrospect that you would have not started the topic or changed your message in some way?

[Sect122Mike]

Vette - we've discussed NFT here like a person wanting advice for a boss who hates him or the Frozen Four or many other things that have no bearing on football.  One of the things I love about this board is the civility with which people talk to each other.  We're not in football season and as you can see by the little activity on this board of new topics, I thought it was an interesting topic (from a variety of angles).

Sorry if I offended you or anyone.  Not trying to.

Thanks Mike for a good discussion.  We're on different sides on this.  I respect yours.

Phil,
I think it was an interesting topic, I just disagree with you on a few points.  I did not think you were offensive, I just disagree with you is all.  Anyway, I too enjoyed our talk.  I respect your right to your opinion and thank you for respecting my right to mine.  I'm sure we will have more good talks.  All the best.

Vette,
Its a tough issue. As you know, I was a regular poster in the back porch and still do not understand why it was put to bed.  But your invitation to comment on how we can manage Non Football Topics merits a great deal of discussion.  IMO, we either need a "back porch" or we have to have a very strict rule about such threads.  This thread did not belong in this particular place. I still think there is a place for such conversation here, but not in this main forum.  I think topics like politics, religion and social justice are far too  sensitive and involve a great many perspectives which are certain to involve passion.  I welcome such passion, but I don;t want to trouble others here with it who do not want such things.  Had this been on the back porch, I feel I would have gone into my feelings with zephirus a bit more, and it likely would have involved far more passion and harsher words.  I still think its fine for two adults to get into a discussion invoking passion and sometimes even use curses.  I don't think there is a thing wrong with that and as long as both members are comfortable, I say let them go at it.  Non-violent disagreement is the best kind of disagreement.  Its not like we are in a bar drinking and throwing fists.  I think its fine to have a place where its not under the rules of gentlemanly behavior and you take the risk to go in there.  If you do not want it, stay out.  Thats why I think the back porch was a good place and it should have changed and stayed.  The problem with it was that you guys were trying to shove a square peg in a round hole.  The back porch and the main forum should be run differently, for the reasons obvious from this thread.   

But since you guys don;t want to have a back porch, after viewing this thread, I think its best to cut off such threads early.  Anyway, thanks for asking our thoughts.  Whatever you decide is fine with me.  There are other forums for having such passionate debates, and if anyone wants to join one, please let me know and I'll be happy to refer you to one.  I can have my giants and sports talk here and have my passionate debates in other places.

[jimv]

Good choice, Mike.  This board is really about Giant fans joining together and discussing their team pro & con.  NGTs are fine because it's still football.  NFTs are good because sometimes interesting things come up from time to time and are worthy of putting out there or put on the FP.  On a personal note, I'm really not interested in the politics or religion of any of my friends here on BBH.  The commonality we all have is the Giants.

[FuglyStick]

Hey, the Jersey Shore cast will be making six figures per episode each for their spin-off shows.  Snooki was paid 32 grand to speak at Rutgers.  Think about that.  This is the world we live in.  These are the values we promote.  This is the future--no, I take that back, this is the PRESENT.

Was it Rutgers who paid the $32K to have her speak or did somebody else pay her $32K to speak at Rutgers?

The 32 grand was paid by a student organization, funded by fees--mandatory fees, if I'm not mistaken, but the decision was that Snooki was who the student body wanted.  So it was funded by students (or their parents), not tax-payer money.  Still, there's something terribly wrong with higher-education if students choose to shell out what amounts to a modest yearly income to hear an orange troll speak at campus.

[TONKA56]

She's hot. 

[Stugots]

She's hot. 

Quoted for truth.