Jon Gruden exposes Cam Newton's real weakness

[MightyGiants]

Thanks Mike, this is exactly what the point of this thread was:

"I'll tell you what scares me and what should scare Carolina," said one coach Sunday evening, "and that's that (Newton) never really developed past the 'JC' (junior college) level in terms of football knowledge. At Auburn, they let him do what he wanted to do. And that's because, athletically, the guy is a Hall of Famer. But in terms of what he knows about the game and how he plays it he's still at a junior-college level."


I appreciate that you posted it.  It took character to do that.

[Sect122Mike]

Thanks Mike, this is exactly what the point of this thread was:

"I'll tell you what scares me and what should scare Carolina," said one coach Sunday evening, "and that's that (Newton) never really developed past the 'JC' (junior college) level in terms of football knowledge. At Auburn, they let him do what he wanted to do. And that's because, athletically, the guy is a Hall of Famer. But in terms of what he knows about the game and how he plays it he's still at a junior-college level."


I appreciate that you posted it.  It took character to do that.

Really, you still want to do this?  Its amazing to me that you just want to keep picking this up. 

Okay, here we go again.  Nothing I said in that post you referenced is at all different that what I have said in this entire thread Rich. 

for the last time (I hope) It is my learned opinion that CAM NEWTON is a risk.  He is not bright and in my opinion is not a good risk to take with the first pick.  It has NOTHING to do with where he went to school.  As it says, Auburn let him do what he wanted to do because, athletically, the guy is a Hall of Famer.  Auburn's decision on how to use him was guided by him just as much as an nfl team's decision to draft is guided by him. 

In terms of what Cam Newton knows about the game and how he plays, its the junior-college level.  None of this has anything whatsoever to with the school that he went to. It all has everything to do with the man who he is.  So I agree, its exactly the point of this thread.  School means nothing, the person means everything.  So I can only assume that last post means that you are finally agreeing with me.  Thanks for agreeing with me finally. Thanks.  I appreciate it. 

So to be clear,
1) Cam Newton = Bad Risk.
2) Auburn, Oregon, Nevada and now it appears Miss State and Oregon State DO NOT EQUAL Bad Risk. 

Maybe now that its clear that we agree, we can move on. 

Or maybe its clear that we disagree, and we should just agree to disagree and likewise just move on. 

[MightyGiants]

Mike,
Look at the title of the thread.  I am pretty sure Grudem didn't discover what school he went through.  Rather he exposed the fact that Cam knows next to nothing about football

[Sect122Mike]

Mike,
Look at the title of the thread.  I am pretty sure Grudem didn't discover what school he went through.  Rather he exposed the fact that Cam knows next to nothing about football

Oh I'm sorry, you only look at the few words in a title to see what a thread is about.  We are different in this respect.  I read a whole thread post and the entire link referenced therein to see what it is about.  and if after reading I find a point other than the thread title, I feel free to inject that into the discussion.  I think thats what makes this board great, good discussions with knowledgeable people.  You posted a quote and a link, which I read entirely and looked at entirely.  In both your quote, and more at the article, Gruden talked about the Auburn offense.  I noted that part where he asked Cam Newton to tell him what an Auburn play call sounds like. 

I then thought I would inject into the conversation what I hoped was an intelligent and well thought out point that just because schools like Auburn and Oregon run an offense that does not use traditional play calls but instead use literally giants boards with either numbers or pictures of strange things on them, does not mean that a QB for one of these schools can not be great in the NFL.  I do think Gruden feels this way, as it appears hat you do, and I respectfully disagree. 

I also think that since these types of offenses are growing in the college level, its a very good discussion to have as to whether one of these offenses can post a good QB.  Considering both of the schools I mentioned were in the national title game, both had Heisman finalists and the Oregon QB is a Heisman favorite going into the season, whether a QB from either of these schools can make it in teh nfl seems a very valid point and a natural response to your post.  Even more so because this style of offense is growing at the Pac-10 and SEC, which are pretty well known to be two of the best conference in the college game, its probable that the better HS QBs will get recruited to schools running this style of offense.

I felt it was tremendous shorting for Gruden to suggest the Auburn offense was simple and could not project a good NFL qb.  I put in my very first post that Cam Newton's real weakness may any number of things, but I think that Gruden's comments can be read as an indictment of an offense that is being mirrored "en masse" at the college ranks.  I think my point is indeed valid, and also does nothing whatsoever to contradict your opinion that Cam Newton will not make a good NFL QB.  Its exactly what your thread started with and was a fair point for me to comment on. 

Its clear that you think school matters a great deal. I do not.  I think I made a valid point, and now that I review it, hell I was even a little more articulate than I often am.  My point was a logical response to the one you made, and I dare say some people here actually enjoyed reading it and discussing it.  Having gone to Oregon, having watched every one of their games the past 15 years, being that I am flying there this coming weekend for the Spring Game to watch the offense and see how it develops without out best WR and the loss our Center, I thought I might be able to contribute something unique to the conversation, or at least from a perspective that is not common on this board.  I hope others feel that I did and my contribution was both valid, thought provoking and entertaining to discuss.   

On Cam, I will say again what I said in my very first post in this thread, he is a huge risk, with an upside somewhere higher than heaven and a downside south of hell.  I would never pick him with the first pick, but someone might.

[MightyGiants]

Mike,

Regardless of WHY Auburn decided to create a simplistic system for him, it doesn't change the FACT that he was in a simplistic system.  You read far too much into the post to try and make a contrary point. 

[Sect122Mike]

Well, that you think its simplistic is yet another area of disagreement. The SEC and particularly Alabama, with one of the best defenses, did notr think it was simple. They just watched it score and run up more points against great defenses in a great conferences than I thought possible.

Auburn runs an offense that is easy to run. If u think it means auburn or oregon or nevada or any other team running this offense can not produce a successful nfl qb, well I'd say you are as wrong as a human being can ever be. As for my reading too much into posts, I just read em Rich. Its only when someone disagrees with you that's its a problem. I'd bet any amount that no one but you thought my point was not appropriate. I bet every other person here, whether they agree with me or not, understands my point to be a fair point to raise. You made a post and I responded. If you don't like it when people respond to your posts, don't make posts. I for one enjoy it when someone responds to me, even when they disagree. Its seriously not cool for you to suggest my point was not a reasonable response to your thread. I thought we were about the free sharing of ideas about football.

[vette]

I think this thing has been beat to death. You disagree with each other. We all enjoyed the discussion the subject evolved into. Thank you both.