2012 Draft prospects: OL/ILB/OLB/CB/S/RB

[NYSPORTS]

Linebackers will slip.  Maybe slip even farther considering what's happening across the league.

That goes against all avialable information on the subject related to Linebacker draft picks since 1981.    This is one of the positons if not the postion that scouts seem to be the most accurate in determining value.    Although the pool might be limited the picks are fairly consistant with where the scouts perceive them to be prior to the draft.

What value do you place on the Burfict type linebackers when compared to the J. Williams and Mouton's (i meant Moch) going forward?

[Sect122Mike]

Linebackers will slip.  Maybe slip even farther considering what's happening across the league.

That goes against all avialable information on the subject related to Linebacker draft picks since 1981.    This is one of the positons if not the postion that scouts seem to be the most accurate in determining value.    Although the pool might be limited the picks are fairly consistant with where the scouts perceive them to be prior to the draft.

What value do you place on the Burfict type linebackers when compared to the J. Williams and Mouton's (i meant Moch) going forward?

NYS, do you mean that since so many teams are converting to two LB sets, that the position is not as in demand as a safety who can come up and stop the run? Thats an interesting point if thats what you meant. 

[NYSPORTS]

Linebackers will slip.  Maybe slip even farther considering what's happening across the league.

That goes against all avialable information on the subject related to Linebacker draft picks since 1981.    This is one of the positons if not the postion that scouts seem to be the most accurate in determining value.    Although the pool might be limited the picks are fairly consistant with where the scouts perceive them to be prior to the draft.

What value do you place on the Burfict type linebackers when compared to the J. Williams and Mouton's (i meant Moch) going forward?

NYS, do you mean that since so many teams are converting to two LB sets, that the position is not as in demand as a safety who can come up and stop the run? Thats an interesting point if thats what you meant.

Absolutley - one way of looking at it is exactly what you wrote.  The other, is finding that linebacker with wheels like Williams and Moch who take on that role.  That's what T. Thomas was going to be.  It could be what Chad Jones becomes or what the Williams' are drafted for.  The guy who can play the hybrid role of stopping the run, the wheels/cod for defending the pass and size to stay with these TE's some teams are using with these rule changes.

[babywhales]

Linebackers will slip.  Maybe slip even farther considering what's happening across the league.

That goes against all avialable information on the subject related to Linebacker draft picks since 1981.    This is one of the positons if not the postion that scouts seem to be the most accurate in determining value.    Although the pool might be limited the picks are fairly consistant with where the scouts perceive them to be prior to the draft.

What value do you place on the Burfict type linebackers when compared to the J. Williams and Mouton's going forward?

The coment by GMO was the 2012 linebackers class are rated high (1st)or not till later, to which he felt it best to get one earlier rather than later.  A comment to which you said they would slip maybe further considerign what is happening.   

I said that goes against the trends of the past, which it clearly does.  Those trends do not say value can not be found in the later rounds, they say it is 4 times less likely.  That is a sharp drop for a positon in the nfl draft.  If you want the best odds of getting talent at Linebacker  get it where the scouts say it is.   

The league and the giants draft record fall in line with that.


What value I place on a linebacker is not the issue nor does it have any bearing on GMO's statement.  That being said Mouton was taken much higher than he was expected to be by publications.  He was pegged as a day three pick all the way to a 7th rounder depending on the source.  One publication that picked 81 of the top 100 picks had him as a third rounder but admitted later the missed themark on him. 

The chargers scouting department is considered to be in the conversation with the leauges best and they drafted him as the 4th lb picked in the second.

The difference between scouting publications and scouts for the teams that do it well.

[Philosophers]

Does anyone think Courtney Upshaw can move to the Mike in the NFL and be successful?  He plays very fast and is huge.  I see him just charging the line and being a great run stuffing LB that we need as our 2nd line of defense against the run.

[zephirus]

Is anyone else not in love with Kuechly?  I'm sorry but if a first round pick is spent on an inside 'backer, they better be a monster.  A stud.  Unless the guys is Patrick Willis, Brian Urlacher or Jon Beason, they don't warrant a first round pick.  Kuechly, from what I've read (I don't watch a lot of college ball), is athletically limited but makes up for it with smarts.  I'm sorry but I want a guy that's smart and athletic.  This is a first round pick we are using here, not a mid-round one.  Yes, I want a tackling machine with good instincts, but he better be the complete package that can run sideline to sideline, has speed to burn, can blitz and hit like a ton of bricks.  I don't see that in Kuechly and at that point, why settle?  Give me Hightower, who I have watched play, any day over Kuechly.  Pick high upside in the first round.  Get the guys that have already peaked in the mid-rounds as role players.

[NYSPORTS]

Is anyone else not in love with Kuechly?  I'm sorry but if a first round pick is spent on an inside 'backer, they better be a monster.

MarkHerzlich Mark Herzlich
“@Brider3sUp: @MarkHerzlich marky who hits harder u or kuechly" Luke may have me in speed. But I lay the lumber!

 

[Philosophers]

I haven't seen him play to warrant an opinion.  I remember years back seeing the same stats for Dat Nguyen out of I think Texas A&M and thinking he'd be a great NFL player, but he ended up having a less than stellar NFL career.

The SEC guys are the ones that have my interest.  They seem to have the size and speed and the downhill mindset.  I will say it again, Courtney Upshaw.  Can he play the Mike?

[Painter]

I haven't seen a linebacker better suited to play MLB in the NFL than Keuchly.  I don't know "who else isn't in love with Keuchly" but there does seem to be quite a few who are. Apparently, whatever he lacks in the minds of his early detractors, he somehow made up for on the field. He led the nation with 191 (102) solo) tackles; was named ACC Defensive Player of the Year; AP and Walter Camp First Team All-American, won the Butkus (best LB), the Nagurski (best dfensive player) and Lott (impact player) Awards.

Not to worry though. He'll be gone to the Eagles long before the Giants pick unless they totally collapse in the next three weeks.

As for Herzlich, it's not question as to whether he's in Keuchly's league, it more like: will still he be in the NFLeague? I wish him the best, but never mind competing with Keuchly, he hasn't done much competing for playing time in what is one of the league's most mediocre linebacking corps.   

Cheers!
 

[Jaime]

Paint, if not for a twisted ankle, Herzey would have remained our MIKE. Chase wouldn't have been signed, & Herzey would have a few more precious games under his belt. Still in all, he would be playing due to an injury to Goff.
I myself have a hard time differentiating between my enthusiasm for Herzey & the actually quality of his play.
Sincerely hope he returns for the last three games, & our hopefull Playoff appearance.

Andrew, thanks for the list.

[PSUBeirut]

Herzy may be a player, Jones may be a player, Williams may be a player....sure, it's possible.  But the odds are stacked against them.  We need to start drafting some LB's where the odds tip a ton more in our favor- and that means drafting a linebacker in the first two rounds.  It's pretty straightforward.

[Painter]

I share your thoughts and sentiments, Jaime. But I do hope that we can get past the if, ands, and buts, and that they will pursue much more than the merely adequate when it comes to Linebacker. For more than a decade, they have managed to defy the odds in quantity over quality.

Cheers!

[todge]

Mark Barron is a late round 2 guy, but he should be there when we pick in round 2, unless we play into February.  I would take him in round 2, but not in round 1. Mike Adams is one of my favs. I would draft him in round 1. 

Mark Barron is generally regarded as one of the best 15 players in the 2012 Draft.  He would have to break his leg, one arm and fail at least two drug tests to go in Round 2.

[NYSPORTS]

Mark Barron is a late round 2 guy, but he should be there when we pick in round 2, unless we play into February.  I would take him in round 2, but not in round 1. Mike Adams is one of my favs. I would draft him in round 1. 

Mark Barron is generally regarded as one of the best 15 players in the 2012 Draft.  He would have to break his leg, one arm and fail at least two drug tests to go in Round 2.

We will who is correct come draft day with Barron.  I think he's a tank and is going in Round 1. 

[worf49]

Manningham  has turned out to be a very good player for Big Blue I think.
Yes, sometimes he drops a pass he should catch but hell so did Jerry Rice.

I read a bit about MM bio and I think The Giants were probably one of the best teams he could have landed on, as he really needed support and a father figure.  TC and the rest of the coaches I think had a positive influence on him.

One other item related to BJ, he certainly looks much better as a RB when the OL give him a bit of daylight to run to.