Fascinating article about Gilbride

[vette]

Ed,
You then diagree that the OL is what will be attacked. If lil Bill then how would you attack?
I agree with Rich that the OL is our question spot and that is what Belichick will go after.
How, I don't know except pressure up the middle seems to be important to disrupt Eli.
Their base 3-4 will become something else in all liklihood.
Something we haven't seen.
dale

I didn't say that Dale. I said this:

Dale, one game with six sacks and pressures on obvious passing downs and all of a sudden the Oline pass protection sucks?

Go study coast to coast results, my friend. You're a man of insight. Tell me what you find out with teams traveling to away games on the other side of the country on one days adjustment.

My point was that we can't look at the results of the SF game in SF and expect that the line will break down and put up the same results based on that one game. If that game was played in the Meadowlands, I believe the line holds up better. I believe the game isn't as close. Then again, they were playing the best defense they faced all season and arguably the best in the NFC and the Giants were doing a lot of passing that game.

The total sacks given up the prior two playoff games, the Giants gave up 2 sacks. In the regular season they were ranked 7th in the league in sacks given up with an average of 1.75 per game. They were ranked 14th in QB hits because Eli will wait and move to give his receivers time to get open. He is clearly moving better this year, but holds on to the ball much longer than Drew Brees who's line was #1 in that category.

The line hasn't done a bad job and that is not their weakness to be exploited. That doesn't mean that BB will not try to pressure Eli even if it didn't rattle him to the point where it effected the end result. I have no idea what he's going to game plan. Other than not have his players say anything stupid to fire up the Giants before the game.

Sorry it took so long to get back to you.

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?archive=false&conference=null&role=TM&offensiveStatisticCategory=OFFENSIVE_LINE&defensiveStatisticCategory=null&season=2011&seasonType=REG&tabSeq=2&qualified=true&Submit=Go

[MightyGiants]

Ed,

Would you say it's fair to characterize the Giants O-line as below average in run blocking and average i pass blocking?   I say average in pass blocking, because Eli's keen ability to sense pressure allows him to often avoid it by stepping this way or that way has lessened the sacks the line has surrendered. 

[vette]

I think below average in run blocking for the season but the results in the last quarter of the season and the playoffs is the trend we should be looking at.

Average in protection? Could be or slightly above to above average. When the Giants mix a 50/50 or close pass to run ratio, it's above average. When the Giants have to come back in the 4th quarter or if the run isn't working, the line gives up more pressure. Remember, 7th in giving up sacks. The hits come from holding the ball to long in most cases.

Let's ask the Ref, he seems to know everything.

[St Marys]

What I find funny is that Painter sits on his high horse talking about "bashing" and people with "biases" and the like.  Yet he seems completely oblivious to the fact that he himself has the exact opposite bias.   Painter never is willing to admit that Gilbride is wrong or maybe was anything less than perfect.   The funny thing is Gilbride himself has admitted to mistakes this season.  Yet if you listen to Painter lecture all the membership about the sheer perfection that is Gilbride and his offense, you have to wonder who this other Kevin Gilbride is for suggesting that he made mistakes this season. 

As is usually the case when people entrench themselves in the pro and con camp the truth of the situation lies somewhere in the middle.  Gilbride does do a pretty good job.  His offensive rankings indicate that to be the case.  So I think those that cal him "killdrive" have got it wrong However the fact that Gilbride has not gotten a head coaching offer tends to indicate he isn't the great coach that his defenders often try to make him out to be.   Of course the oddest part of all is that most of the people in either camp tend to react further in support or detraction of the man because of what the other side is doing.   If push comes to shove, I think the pro-Gilbride people will admit he's not perfect and there is room for improvement and Gilbride's critics will admit he does a better job than your average OC.   

In the end the best way to deal with the situation is tolerance for differing opinions and moderation of position.   Don't take an extreme view as it's almost never right and appreciate that people can have a different interpretation of the facts and that doesn't make them less knowledgeable or a lesser person.   It simply makes them different.   Finally above all let us show respect for our fellow fans and board members

MG

I just wanted to say that I have been impressed by the way some, but you in particular, have tried to steer things here over what has been, off and on, a turbulent time of late.

Everytime I LogOn I see the following - Welcome to the forum for intelligent, thoughtful and civil discussions of the NY Giants football- .   Let's get back to that.   Why that message has sometimes fallen by the wayside of late is beyond me.   I would understand if the atmosphere was at a jets Board, but it's not - it's a Board for fans whose Heroes have, for the second time in five years made it to the f'n S u p e r B o w l !!!

Maybe that thought has begun to resonate.   I certainly hope so.   It does look as though a peace (of a sort) has broken out.   Posts aren't being dissected root and branch.   Discussion reigns, even if opinions vary (rightly).   Long may it continue.

Regards

St Marys

[UniHamachi]

The problem in the SF game was that the offense could not run.  And what was a 2:1 pass/run ratio in the first half turned into 3:1 in the second half.  With the Giants flailing in the run game, the Niners could tee off on Manning in the second half, and that's where 4 of the 6 sacks (and most of the brutal hits) came from.  They couldn't run up the middle and couldn't get the the edges.  And SF took advantage of that.

[babywhales]

If you look at Football Outsiders:Innovative Stats, http://footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol  they have done their version of ranking O line play.

Run blocking as defined by Teams are ranked according to Adjusted Line Yards. Based on regression analysis, the Adjusted Line Yards formula takes all running back carries and assigns responsibility to the offensive line based on the following percentages:

•Losses: 120% value
•0-4 Yards: 100% value
•5-10 Yards: 50% value
•11+ Yards: 0% value
These numbers are then adjusted based on down, distance, situation, opponent, and the difference in rushing average between shotgun compared to standard formations. Finally, we normalize the numbers so that the league average for Adjusted Line Yards per carry is the same as the league average for RB yards per carry. These stats are explained further here.

The following stats are not adjusted for opponent:

•RB Yards: Yards per carry by that team's running backs, according to standard NFL numbers.
•10+ Yards: Percentage of a team's rushing yards more than 10 yards past the line of scrimmage. Represents yardage not reflected in Adjusted Line Yards stat.
•Power Success: Percentage of runs on third or fourth down, two yards or less to go, that achieved a first down or touchdown. Also includes runs on first-and-goal or second-and-goal from the toward line or closer. This is the only statistic on this page that includes quarterbacks.
•Stuffed: Percentage of runs where the running back is tackled at or behind the line of scrimmage. Since being stuffed is bad, teams are ranked from stuffed least often (#1) to most often (#32).

the Giants rank 27th.

Regarding the pass blocking are ranked according to adjusted sack rate, which gives sacks (plus intentional grounding penalties) per pass attempt adjusted for down, distance, and opponent.  they can be defined in great detail for those interested in the link.

The Giants rank 6th.

This is just one way to gauge these things and is by no means the end all, just information to be used as a tool with other information.

Yet it should be noted the statistical significance shown is on par with what we see as fans in the huge discrepancy between run and pass blocking.

[LennG]

 To expand on what Rich said, I think this board is becoming more like the US government, where if you are on one side, you simply will not listen to what the other side has to say and visa versa. That is what I am seeing here. If you love KG there are some here who simply do not want to hear that he may have some faults. The Giants are playing for the SB, so KG must be great at what he does, with nothing wrong. Then the 'Killdrive' group will never admit that KG may be well above average as a OC and gotten the Giants to where we are now. It is not just on this topic, but we saw the same with Osi, with Eli, with TC and the list goes on. Each side is dug in to their opinions and simply does not want to listen to MAYBE another side of the argument.

 Each side has points to be made and each side's opinions are based on some fact, some opinions, and just some fantasy that they beleive to be true. Isnstead of just digging in your heels and fighting tooth and nail to make your points, try listening to the other side and MAYBE, they have legitimate points to make that are true.

[vette]

The problem in the SF game was that the offense could not run.  And what was a 2:1 pass/run ratio in the first half turned into 3:1 in the second half.  With the Giants flailing in the run game, the Niners could tee off on Manning in the second half, and that's where 4 of the 6 sacks (and most of the brutal hits) came from.  They couldn't run up the middle and couldn't get the the edges.  And SF took advantage of that.

Agreed. My comment was in line with your comment.

They were playing the best defense they faced all season and arguably the best in the NFC and the Giants were doing a lot of passing that game.

[vette]

 To expand on what Rich said, I think this board is becoming more like the US government, where if you are on one side, you simply will not listen to what the other side has to say and visa versa. That is what I am seeing here. If you love KG there are some here who simply do not want to hear that he may have some faults. The Giants are playing for the SB, so KG must be great at what he does, with nothing wrong. Then the 'Killdrive' group will never admit that KG may be well above average as a OC and gotten the Giants to where we are now. It is not just on this topic, but we saw the same with Osi, with Eli, with TC and the list goes on. Each side is dug in to their opinions and simply does not want to listen to MAYBE another side of the argument.

 Each side has points to be made and each side's opinions are based on some fact, some opinions, and just some fantasy that they beleive to be true. Isnstead of just digging in your heels and fighting tooth and nail to make your points, try listening to the other side and MAYBE, they have legitimate points to make that are true.

Just curious, where do think I fall in?

[dasher]

Ed.
I think you are extremely knowledgable about the game in general and the Giants in particular.
You state your position on KG (and anything else) in a nonconfrontational manner and why you feel that way and defend your position when challenged in a like manner.
And to me this is key - when you answer you always treat the other person with respect.
Personally, when you are answering me, I look forward to your response.
I know it will be thoughtful and courteous and gentlemanly.
With some others, I cringe not knowing what to expect.
Does this qualify me to be a charter member of your fan club?
Dale

[MightyGiants]

Ed.
I think you are extremely knowledgable about the game in general and the Giants in particular.
You state your position on KG (and anything else) in a nonconfrontational manner and why you feel that way and defend your position when challenged in a like manner.
And to me this is key - when you answer you always treat the other person with respect.
Personally, when you are answering me, I look forward to your response.
I know it will be thoughtful and courteous and gentlemanly.
With some others, I cringe not knowing what to expect.
Does this qualify me to be a charter member of your fan club?
Dale

Very well said Dale

[vette]

Ed.
I think you are extremely knowledgable about the game in general and the Giants in particular.
You state your position on KG (and anything else) in a nonconfrontational manner and why you feel that way and defend your position when challenged in a like manner.
And to me this is key - when you answer you always treat the other person with respect.
Personally, when you are answering me, I look forward to your response.
I know it will be thoughtful and courteous and gentlemanly.
With some others, I cringe not knowing what to expect.
Does this qualify me to be a charter member of your fan club?
Dale

Very well said Dale

Why thank you very much for the kind words. Coming from the both of you means a great deal to me.

[LennG]

 To expand on what Rich said, I think this board is becoming more like the US government, where if you are on one side, you simply will not listen to what the other side has to say and visa versa. That is what I am seeing here. If you love KG there are some here who simply do not want to hear that he may have some faults. The Giants are playing for the SB, so KG must be great at what he does, with nothing wrong. Then the 'Killdrive' group will never admit that KG may be well above average as a OC and gotten the Giants to where we are now. It is not just on this topic, but we saw the same with Osi, with Eli, with TC and the list goes on. Each side is dug in to their opinions and simply does not want to listen to MAYBE another side of the argument.

 Each side has points to be made and each side's opinions are based on some fact, some opinions, and just some fantasy that they beleive to be true. Isnstead of just digging in your heels and fighting tooth and nail to make your points, try listening to the other side and MAYBE, they have legitimate points to make that are true.

Just curious, where do think I fall in?

Somewhere with the Red states.