Author Topic: BBH Draft Preview 2012 - Defense  (Read 4218 times)

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tomeee

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Re: BBH Draft Coverage 2012 - DE/Joker Preview
« Reply #15 on: April 24, 2012, 07:33:53 AM »
Quote
anyone else suspect that JR will go DE at 32 and draft the future OL players in rounds 2-4?

Yes, I think JR likes the O guys he has on the roster (hixon, jernigan, barden, ware, pascoe, bennett, beatty, booth, petrus...) and will back fill as you said in rounds 3-4.

DanUK

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Re: BBH Draft Coverage 2012 - DE/Joker Preview
« Reply #16 on: April 24, 2012, 02:58:02 PM »
(Sorry to go off topic here guys)

Ceri, are you watching the draft on NFL.com?

Reason I ask is that I found out today it looks like ESPN America are not showing it on TV here. Really, really annoyed!!

UKGiantsFan

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BBH Draft Coverage 2012 - DB Preview
« Reply #17 on: April 26, 2012, 06:38:31 AM »
DB Preview

The talent available
There are four top calibre CB’s in this draft but after them there is a big drop-off in talent to the 5th best player at the position and after a handful of similar quality players are taken there will then be another drop-off in talent to the next group.

The Giants have a prototype for CB appearing happy to sacrifice a little speed for size to bring in players circa 6’, 200lb’s with long arms who can force turnovers (though of course last year they deviated from that prototype slightly when drafting the incredibly short-armed, INT challenged Prince Amukamara). Similarly at Safety they prefer players to be circa 6’1, 210lb’s with long arms and good tackling skills.

What do I think the Giants should do?
Corey Webster is signed through the 2013 season but as he’ll be 32 then he is likely to be in his last contract with the Giants. Re-signing Terrell Thomas meant that the Giants let the Giants allowed Aaron Ross to move in in free agency but coming off a major injury and being susceptible deep prior to it there is no guarantee he’ll be the same player. Last years 1st round draft pick Prince Amukamara missed more than half the season with a broken foot suffered in training camp and did little to impress when he got on the field at the end of it. His foot is still undergoing treatment so may continue to be a problem going forwards as well. Antwaun Molden signed as a free agent. He’ll play in the nickel but is he good enough to be the starter were Thomas and Amukamara unable to go? I’m doubtful. The plethora of youngsters with experience in the dime packages - Michael Coe, Bruce Johnson, Justin Tryon & Brian Witherspoon will be amongst those battling for the 5th & 6th roster spots.

At Safety I thought that Kenny Phillips and Antrel Rolle performed well throughout the year - most of Rolle’s breakdowns were when playing nickel CB rather than at Safety - but Rolle is expensive on the cap and Phillips is only signed through this season. With veteran Deon Grant seemingly not returning depth is at best unproven, at worse shaky with 2nd year man Tyler Sash one injury away from a starting spot having seen little playing time in the secondary last year. I firmly believe Chad Jones was drafted to play the hybrid S/LB role Grant was employed in but whether he is able to do so now after two years of rehab following his vehicle accident is very questionable.

Unless a talented CB or Safety falls to them as the BPA at a point in the draft they offer such great value they can’t be ignored I doubt the Giants will be investing a draft pick at the position in the first three rounds. However, with the amount of DB’s brought in on visits its unlikely the Giants won’t draft anyone and I’d expect them to draft both a CB and Safety on Saturday.

How will things play out on draft day?
The lack of depth means that teams in need of CB’s will consider their acquisition a priority and take them early. I have one CB ranked in my top 5, the next best player inside my top 15 and the fourth best player in the early 20’s. Due specifically to major character concerns I think the third best player drops out of the 1st round to become a bargain for a team atop the 2nd round. I think three will then be drafted from the mid-late part of the 2nd round and another three in the 3rd round but the bargains will be had from the 4th round onwards when all the players are ‘missing something’ in terms of size, speed or ability and the good scouting teams will unearth those that play whilst a dozen get drafted who will never see an NFL field.

Teams in need of CB help include Minnesota, Cleveland, Tampa Bay, St Louis, Carolina, Buffalo, Kansas City, San Diego, Cincinnati, Detroit, New England

At Safety the calibre of player available isn’t good and depth is poor. Due to demand far outstripping the supply the lone top end talent may find himself getting drafted closer to 10th overall than 20th despite the fact the latter is where they should be ranked. There is a hugh drop off to the next best player who I rank at the back end of the 2nd round and then there is another big gap between the 2nd and 3rd ranked players at the position. The talent level is so bad I can’t see any more than 3 or 4 Safeties being taken before Saturday! On the drafts final day teams will be looking for hidden gems amongst the small schools so they can turn the better athletes into NFL playmakers.

Teams in need of Safety help include St. Louis, Washington, Tampa Bay, Dallas, NY Jets, Philadelphia, Baltimore & New England


The top prospects
1. CB Morris Claiborne, LSU (5’11 1/8”, 188lb’s, 4.54 speed, 33 ¼” arms, 34 ½” VJ) – top 5 pick
2. CB Stephon Gilmore, South Carolina (6’ ½”, 190lb’s, 4.40 speed, 31” arms) – top 15 pick
3. SS Mark Barron, Alabama (6’1 1/8”, 213lb’s, 33 5/8” arms, 4.56 speed) – top 15 pick
4. CB Janoris Jenkins, North Alabama (5’10”, 193lb’s, 32”arms, 4.44 speed, 33 1/2” VJ) – is a top 20 talent who is likely to slip into the top of the 2nd round due to substantial character concerns. I can’t imagine he will even be on the Giants draft board.

5. CB Dre Kirkpatrick, Alabama (6’1 5/8”, 186lb’s, 30 5/8”arms, 4.52 speed, 35” VJ) has a strange physical make-up as he’s tall but with fairly short arms and is skinny as a rake. More a ‘lock down corner’ who forces the QB to go the other way or prevents plays than a ‘playmaker’. Willing tackler in the run game who also comes up with some big hits on receivers. Durability may be an issue for him because of his physique. Blows some coverages. Character/intelligence is a concern (caught  with marijuana recently but charges were dropped). I have him ranked just outside my top 20 and I’d expect him to be picked around that area too. The Giants have him him in for a private visit to check him out just in case he slips a little further than expected.

6. CB Trumaine Johnson, Montana (6’1 7/8”, 204lb’s, 33 1/4”arms, 4.59 speed, 35 1/2” VJ) – Mid 2nd round pick

7. FS Harrison Smith, Notre Dame (6’1 7/8”, 213lbs, 32 5/8” arms, 4.58 speed, 34” VJ) should start quickly in the NFL but I see him more as a ‘steady’ player than an ‘impact’ one. Consistently good tackler both ‘in the box’ and the open field. Good blitzer. Two-time Team Captain. Made a lot of INT’s as a junior and plays the ball well in front of him in the short-intermediate area but doesn’t have great hands. Not a heavy hitter and doesn’t match up well deep in man coverage as he loses position when he has to turn and run or gets anxious and arrives too early at the ball. Fits the Giants prototype for the position to a tee and having played LB for his first two years in college is an excellent fit for the hybrid S/LB role employed to such great effect by Deon Grant the last few years. Interestingly a number of recent mock drafts have him appearing as a Giants selection - some even in the 1st round! I have him ranked as a mid 2nd round pick.

8. CB Josh Robinson, UCF (5’10 1/8”, 199lb’s, 31 1/4”arms, 4.30 speed, 38 1/2” VJ) – Mid-late 2nd round pick.
9. CB Brandon Boykin, Georgia (5’9 1/2”, 183lb’s, 31 1/2”arms) – Borderline late 2nd/early 3rd round pick who I would have ranked just outside the 1st round were he not still rehabilitating after fracturing his right leg in the Senior Bowl.

10. CB Josh Norman, Coastal Carolina (6’ 1/4”, 197lb’s, 32 3/4”arms, 4.62 speed, 33” VJ) comes from a small school but did well enough at the East-West Shrine Bowl to be called up as an injury replacement at the Senior Bowl and looked good there too. Has ball-hawk and kick blocking skills. Character may be an issue as he’s widely seen as cocky but the Giants have checked him out recently and if they don’t see his personality being an issue they may well have a liking for him as he fits the ‘prototype’ pretty well. 3rd round pick.

11. CB Jamell Fleming, Oklahoma (5’10 5/8”, 206lb’s, 31 1/4”arms, 4.46 speed, 34” VJ) – 3rd round pick
12. CB Casey Heyward, Vanderbilt (5’11 1/4”, 192lb’s, 30 1/4”arms, 4.53 speed, 34” VJ) – 3rd round pick
13. CB Ron Brooks, LSU (5’10” 190lb’s, 30 5/8” arms, 4.40 speed, 38” VJ) – 3rd round pick
14. FS George Iloka, Boise State (6’3 5/8”, 225lb’s, 34 1/2” arms, 4.62 speed, 34 1/2” VJ) – 3rd round pick
15. CB Dwight Bentley, Louisiana-Lafayette (5’10” 182lb’s, 30 1/4” arms, 4.43 speed, 31 1/2” VJ) – 3rd round pick

A few mid & late round gems
CB Shaun Prater, Iowa (5’10 1/8”, 190lb’s, 4.53 speed) CB Ron Brooks, LSU (5’10” 190lb’s, 30 5/8” arms, 4.40 speed, 38” VJ) – 4th round pick
FS Christian Thompson, South Carolina State (6’ 1/4”, 211lb’s, 31 1/2” arms, 4.46 speed, 31 1/2” VJ) – 4th round
SS Antonio Allen, South Carolina (6’1 1/2”, 210lb’s, 32 1/2” arms, 4.60 speed, 34” VJ) – 5th round
FS Aaron Henry, Wisconsin (6’, 208lb’s, 32” arms, 4.55 speed, 39 1/2” VJ) - 5th round
CB Chris Greenwood, Albion MICH (6’1 1/4”, 193lb’s, 31 5/8” arms, 4.42 speed, 43” VJ) – 5th round
SS Kelcie McCray, Arkansas State (6’1 3/4”, 202lb’s, 32 1/4” arms, 4.55 speed, 30 1/2” VJ) – 6th round

Summary
I think there is little chance that Kirkpatrick is available to us with the 32nd overall pick but if he were there he’d have to be ‘in the mix’ despite greater needs at other positions. I can’t see the Giants trading up for him unless the Doctors are really concerned with the long-term prognosis for Amukamara. I don’t think that Smith ranks nearly high enough to be selected in the 1st round but were he to slip through to 63 he might well be the BPA at that time. Were the Giants to trade out of the 1st round (or trade up a little way in the 2nd) he could well be a player they target. Staying put at the end of the 2nd round were Robinson still available I would hope the Giants consider him as a potential BPA too. As we already know the Giants have an interest in Norman so don’t be surprised if he is in the discussion when the Giants are ‘on the clock’ in the 3rd round. Similarly, I could see Thompson appealing heavily in the 4th round, especially considering the Giants have two selections there and no 5th round pick. 
« Last Edit: April 29, 2012, 10:32:42 AM by Vette »

UKGiantsFan

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Re: BBH Draft Coverage 2012 - DE/Joker Preview
« Reply #18 on: April 26, 2012, 06:39:53 AM »
(Sorry to go off topic here guys)

Ceri, are you watching the draft on NFL.com?

Reason I ask is that I found out today it looks like ESPN America are not showing it on TV here. Really, really annoyed!!

Will try to but more often than not its impossible to get it to work due to heavy traffic on the site. Normally I'll find a place where NFL Network is shown so I can watch that on-line instead.

DanUK

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Re: BBH Draft Coverage 2012 - DE/Joker Preview
« Reply #19 on: April 26, 2012, 07:06:43 AM »
Last year I watched the draft on NFL.com for free - I know they've got a subscription model now so I have bought one month's viewing for £2.99. Was watching the channel on my main PC while working from home yesterday, and even on a 30" monitor it's outstanding quality.

Munchies have been bought - just need to keep myself entertained up till 1am after I get home from work! :)

UKGiantsFan

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BBH Draft Coverage 2012 - LB Preview
« Reply #20 on: April 26, 2012, 07:53:48 AM »
LB Preview

The talent available
I covered most of the top OLB prospects in the DE/Joker preview a coupe of days ago so those in this preview will predominantly be undersized players who project solely to WLB in the 4-3 scheme, a few MLB’s and some OLB’s with the all-around games to play multiple positions. Depth is pretty good overall with productive players available well into the drafts final day who will cut their teeth initially on Special Teams while they learn how to play LB in the NFL.

What do I think the Giants should do?
Michael Boley had by far his finest season as a Giant last year and appears to be getting better with age. Though his contract expires after 2013 the Giants appear to already have his long-term successor on the roster in Jacquian Williams. However, having traded for the talented but oft-injured Keith Rivers the Giants now need to find somewhere for him to start. Boley may get shifted to MLB opening a spot for Rivers at WLB but I also wouldn’t rule out Rivers starting at SLB in the event that Matthias Kiwanuka moves to DE full-time. It also should be noted that Kiwi is a free agent after this season and may be hard to re-sign. At MLB the Giants appear set with veteran Chase Blackburn battling with 2nd year men Mark Herzlich and Greg Jones for playing time.

My belief is that too much emphasis has been put on pass rush ability in the evaluation process at SLB despite the position requiring more dropping in coverage than blitzing. Accordingly, the Giants have primarily drafted under-sized but athletic collegiate DE’s then converted them to SLB. That may explain why at SLB we’ve always lacked coverage instincts in coverage and been exposedby good receiving TE’s. Our prototype for the position appears to be players larger than 6’3”, 250lb’s with sub 4.75 speed. Depending on what happens with Kiwi they may decide to take a novel  approach and actually draft an LB to play LB!!

How will things play out on draft day?
The best MLB’s get taken in the mid 1st round and the best pass rushers will be snapped up by teams running 3-4 defenses in the first couple of rounds. After that however the value of LB’s tends to drift and they last longer than most people expect them allowing teams to swoop in and grab a few bargains in the 3rd, 4th & 5th rounds and I’d expect similar to happen again this year.

Teams looking for help at LB include St Louis, Miami, Carolina, Buffalo, NY Jets, San Diego, Pittsburgh, Baltimore & New England

The top prospects
1. MLB Luke Kuechley, Boston College (6’3 1/4”, 242lb’s, 31” arms, 4.60 speed, 27 BP reps) – top 15 pick

2. MLB Dont'a Hightower, Alabama (6’2 1/4”, 265lb’s, 32 5/8” arms, 4.65 speed) is a huge, strong man with very good straight-line speed. 3 year starter. Looked on the way to stardom as a true Freshman but suffered a really bad knee injury (blew out all three ligaments) as a sophomore and when he returned to action as a junior appeared to have lost his speed and athleticism in the early part of the year. Tough run defender who knows how to use his size to destroy blocks. Team Captain. Unquestioned leader of the best collegiate defense in the nation. Like an extra coach on the field. Good pass rusher – has the size and strength to overpower his opponent on the blitz and was used as a specialist pass rusher on 3rd down both standing up and with his hand on the ground with some success. Ran really well at the Combine and on his Pro Day to raise his stock. Can be exposed in coverage as he’s more ‘straight line fast’ than quick and not particularly athletic in his change of direction. Projects far better inside in the 3-4 than 4-3 schemes though a number of teams are also reported to be evaluating him at OLB. Top 25 pick.

3. OLB Lavonte David, Nebraska (6’ 5/8”, 233lb’s, 31 3/4” arms, 4.59 speed, 19 BP reps) – Mid 2nd round pick
4. OLB  Bobby Wagner, Utah State (6’ 3/8”, 235lb’s, 32 1/2” arms, 4.46 speed, 24 BP reps) – late 2nd round pick
5. OLB Zach Brown, North Carolina (6’1 1/4”, 244lb’s, 33 1/4” arms, 4.47 speed, 22 BP reps) – late 2nd round pick
6. MLB Mychal Kendricks, California (5’11 1/8”, 239lb’s, 31 5/8” arms, 4.47 speed, 24 BP reps – Borderline late 2nd/early 3rd round pick
7. OLB Ronnell Lewis, Oklahoma (6’1 3/4”, 253lb’s, 32 1/2” arms, 4.67 speed, 36 BP reps – 3rd round pick

8. OLB Nigel Bradham, Florida State (6’1 1/8”, 241lb’s, 33 3/4” arms, 4.60 speed, 24 BP reps) is another of my favourites in this draft. 3 year starter. Team Captain. Built like a brick sh*thouse with long arms. Huge hitter both in the run game and dropping back in zone coverage. Makes plays in coverage on the TE - gets his hands on a few balls but doesn’t always catch them. Takes the odd false step in coverage so needs to diagnose run-pass quicker. Not used much as a blitzer. Started at SLB in a 4-3 scheme but projects just as well to the other spots or inside in a 3-4 scheme. Late 3rd round pick

9. OLB Demorio Davis, Arkansas State (6’2” 235lb’s, 32” arms, 4.54 speed, 32 BP reps) came to prominence at the Senior Bowl where he outperformed a host of more highly touted players in practice and the game. Has an all-around game together with impressive strength and could project to either OLB position in the 4-3 scheme. Giants scouts went to his Pro Day to see him so they may have a legitimate interest in him. Ranks as a borderline late 3rd/early 4th round pick

10. Sean Spence, Miami FL (5’11 3/8”, 231lbs, 31 1/2” arms, 4.67 speed, 12 BP reps) - borderline late 3rd/early 4th round pick
 
11. OLB Keenan Robinson, Texas (6’3 1/8”, 242lb’s, 33” arms, 4.79 speed, 27 BP reps) is maddeningly inconsistent but the sport of guy who if he ever put it together could become one of the better LB”s in the NFL. Incredibly smooth and athletic - covers a lot of ground and appears to run a lot faster than he times. Matches up well with the TE both at the point of attack and in man coverage. Can be an impact hitter. Misses way too many tackles. Has the odd brain fart in zone coverage when he is slow to react to the ball thrown underneath him. Not much of a pass rusher. 4th round pick

12. MLB James-Michael Johnson, Nevada (6’ 1/8”, 241lb’s, 32 7/8” arms, 4.65 speed, 23 BP reps) – 4th round pick

Summary
I don’t think the Giants will ever take a ‘pure’ MLB high in the draft now that it has become a ‘two down position’ but Hightower’s skill-set makes it possible to get him on the field in several ways. I seriously think that he projects just as well to our ‘Joker’ position as he does to MLB and can understand why the Giants have checked him out closely. With the 32nd pick I have no doubts that if he is available he will figure highly in discussions but unless we’re prepared to trade up 10 places I can’t see us getting him.

I don’t really see anyone who appeals in the 2nd round but if the Giants did have a plan to trade Umenyiora and move Kiwanuka up to the DL full-time either Davis or Bradham would offer good value in the 3rd round and one of them or Robinson may be available in the 4th round also.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2012, 10:28:53 AM by Vette »

MightyGiants

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Re: BBH Draft Coverage 2012 - LB Preview
« Reply #21 on: April 26, 2012, 08:11:51 AM »
Based on what you said about Hightower, he sounds like a younger version of Kiwi.   If the Giants drafted him, I would want the team to try and trade Kiwi and pick up an extra high pick to meet other team needs (WR, RB, OT and TE)
"THE 2007 and 2011 GIANTS WERE NEVER PERFECT, NOR MEANT TO BE.  THEY WERE FIGHTERS, SCRAPPERS, NOW THEY CAN BE CALLED SOMETHING ELSE....WORLD CHAMPIONS!"

Chris

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Re: BBH Draft Coverage 2012 - LB Preview
« Reply #22 on: April 26, 2012, 09:22:05 AM »
Based on what you said about Hightower, he sounds like a younger version of Kiwi.   If the Giants drafted him, I would want the team to try and trade Kiwi and pick up an extra high pick to meet other team needs (WR, RB, OT and TE)

MG, how high of a pick do you think you could get for Kiwi?

MightyGiants

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Re: BBH Draft Coverage 2012 - LB Preview
« Reply #23 on: April 26, 2012, 09:27:46 AM »
Based on what you said about Hightower, he sounds like a younger version of Kiwi.   If the Giants drafted him, I would want the team to try and trade Kiwi and pick up an extra high pick to meet other team needs (WR, RB, OT and TE)

MG, how high of a pick do you think you could get for Kiwi?

Kiwi proved his health is back.  So I am thinking he should fetch a low 2nd rounder high 3rd rounder.   I think Kiwi would be a good fist as the rush backer in a 3-4 defense or an end in a 4-3.   
"THE 2007 and 2011 GIANTS WERE NEVER PERFECT, NOR MEANT TO BE.  THEY WERE FIGHTERS, SCRAPPERS, NOW THEY CAN BE CALLED SOMETHING ELSE....WORLD CHAMPIONS!"

files58

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Re: BBH Draft Coverage 2012 - LB Preview
« Reply #24 on: April 26, 2012, 10:07:44 AM »
Why trade a former 1st round pick(32) who knows the system and can play two positions for a talented but UNPROVEN rookie? I would be ok drafting Hightower to add to what we have.

MightyGiants

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Re: BBH Draft Coverage 2012 - LB Preview
« Reply #25 on: April 26, 2012, 10:12:43 AM »
Why trade a former 1st round pick(32) who knows the system and can play two positions for a talented but UNPROVEN rookie? I would be ok drafting Hightower to add to what we have.

Good question

I don't like that the Giants have two players, Kiwi and Osi both having their contracts expiring after the season.    Drafting a replacement and trading away the player they replace would serve a couple of purposes.

1)  Would reduce the Giants salary cap number
2)  Would eliminate to similar players having contracts coming due at the same time
3) Would give the Giants an extra pick to fill the many areas of need (WR, TE, OT and RB)
"THE 2007 and 2011 GIANTS WERE NEVER PERFECT, NOR MEANT TO BE.  THEY WERE FIGHTERS, SCRAPPERS, NOW THEY CAN BE CALLED SOMETHING ELSE....WORLD CHAMPIONS!"

Chris

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Re: BBH Draft Coverage 2012 - LB Preview
« Reply #26 on: April 26, 2012, 10:23:41 AM »
Kiwi proved his health is back.  So I am thinking he should fetch a low 2nd rounder high 3rd rounder.   I think Kiwi would be a good fist as the rush backer in a 3-4 defense or an end in a 4-3.   

I think you may be overrating Kiwi's value, MG. Why would a team give us a high draft pick for a player coming off two major injuries in their walk year? Would you give up a 2nd or 3rd round pick for Kiwi?

MightyGiants

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Re: BBH Draft Coverage 2012 - LB Preview
« Reply #27 on: April 26, 2012, 10:40:50 AM »
Kiwi proved his health is back.  So I am thinking he should fetch a low 2nd rounder high 3rd rounder.   I think Kiwi would be a good fist as the rush backer in a 3-4 defense or an end in a 4-3.   

I think you may be overrating Kiwi's value, MG. Why would a team give us a high draft pick for a player coming off two major injuries in their walk year? Would you give up a 2nd or 3rd round pick for Kiwi?

That depends Chris.  If I had a good amount of cap space and could lock him up with a 3 or 4 year extension and needed a pass rusher, yes I would.   Before Kiwi got hurt he was playing pure DE and had 4 sacks in 3 games.  I think he is miscast as a SAM in a 4-3.   So if I had the cap room I would be getting a solid pass rusher for the next 4 years for the cost of a 2nd or 3rd round pick.   That would be worth considering. 
"THE 2007 and 2011 GIANTS WERE NEVER PERFECT, NOR MEANT TO BE.  THEY WERE FIGHTERS, SCRAPPERS, NOW THEY CAN BE CALLED SOMETHING ELSE....WORLD CHAMPIONS!"

vette

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BBH Draft Preview 2012 - Defense
« Reply #28 on: April 29, 2012, 10:22:17 AM »
.
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