NFT: Lance Armstrong

[jimmyz]

I know its football season and I know you've all read the news stories. 

What do you guys think?  Cheater or no?

It seems cruel what he went thru but I've always thought him a cheater.  At some point when you get this many accusations brought against you, it is and extreme witch hunt or there is truth to it.  Frankly I have no idea why the USADA is so determined to prosecute/persecute Armstrong.  There are also countless stories of people who have encountered Armstrong and came away thinking the guy was an absolute prick.  His competitors have called him an extortionist and intimidator outside of the sport.  It seems that his supporters see him as a shining beacon.   Hope that even after devastating disease that one could not only be fully restored but far improved physically.  I just don't see how a guy so clean can so easily dominate a sport where cheating is so rampant. 

Maybe its just me and my cynical view of these 'classy guys' as they portray themselves on TV but it's just another reason why i have no desire to befriend a pro athlete, meet him, ask for an autograph, wear his jersey, idolize or let myself succumb to notions of what they are as human beings.

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[JimboWHO]

Cheater.



JJM

[bamagiantfan]

Quite possibly the most tested athlete in the history of sport, and he never failed one. His blood was monitored for years by doctors who were looking for recurrance of cancer. His blood never changed. No drug trail. No money trail.

USADA, this hunt by you is a "guilty until proven innocent" endeavor. I don't care if they think he did it or not. If you can't prove he did it by the rules and testing that you had in place, - the rules you created - then shut up. What are you going to do with the 7 titles you strip from him? Are you going to give it to the 3 runner ups who all tested positive for doping? You can't come back years after the fact and say, "I know you passed all of our tests, but we still think you cheated. Others say you cheated too, so you must have cheated."

Armstrong stopped fighting when it was clear that no evidence he could provide would prove him innocent. Circumstantial evidence and testimony by others was considered suficient to proclaim him guilty, in spite of the scientific evidence to the contrary.

I, like everyone else, don't have a clue whether he did it or not. All I know is that he never failed a test. Not one. Not before races, during races, or after races. If he was cheating, he somehow was able to do what no one else was able to do, including Floyd Landis and some of his other American Teammates. How do you explain that?

[Just_jimmy]

I cycle. I am real fan of cycling as a sport. I loath the side of it where you cannot really enjoy a fantastic performance without thinking they must be cheating.

I don't like Armstrong, but I don't know if he cheated. As has been said, so many around him were being caught and are still being caught. How was he able to provide negative samples on so many occasions? 

The otherside of it is that if the top tenish guys each year he won were all cheating then surely he still beat them all anyway? Kinda reverse logic i suppose but in a way they all cheated anyway so did anyone really get an advantage.

Armstrong comes across as a self righteous prick. I do not want to level the accusation of cheating at him however as I cannot prove it and there in lies the difference.

[Jaime]

A Pal in the loop told me (back in the day) that the reason Armstrong could outlast everybody was that he had a heart that was 30% larger than normal. Kinda reminds me of the McCartney hoax.
That sport is so dirty. Entire Teams test positive.
Not to be harsh, but the "self righteous prick" comment (Just_jimmy) rings true for me here as well.

[GiantFan67]

Yawn.

[Hooper74]

If everyone in a given sport is "cheating" is anyone really cheating?

[murderhill]

Cheater

[Frith]

I guess I'm the naive one here... I think after all those tests (he literally has been hounded for years) and still nothing, I gotta say I don't blame him for saying "Screw it, I'm done with you fools"...

[TONKA56]

I guess I'm the naive one here... I think after all those tests (he literally has been hounded for years) and still nothing, I gotta say I don't blame him for saying "Screw it, I'm done with you fools"...

+1

I think most sports fans are the naive ones.  The majority of them have no idea what various PEDs are and how they work.  They just listen to the babbling talking heads in the media.  I also scoff at the concept of professional athletes as role models for the youth. 

[Suburbanites II]

Quite possibly the most tested athlete in the history of sport, and he never failed one. His blood was monitored for years by doctors who were looking for recurrance of cancer. His blood never changed. No drug trail. No money trail.

USADA, this hunt by you is a "guilty until proven innocent" endeavor. I don't care if they think he did it or not. If you can't prove he did it by the rules and testing that you had in place, - the rules you created - then shut up. What are you going to do with the 7 titles you strip from him? Are you going to give it to the 3 runner ups who all tested positive for doping? You can't come back years after the fact and say, "I know you passed all of our tests, but we still think you cheated. Others say you cheated too, so you must have cheated."

Armstrong stopped fighting when it was clear that no evidence he could provide would prove him innocent. Circumstantial evidence and testimony by others was considered suficient to proclaim him guilty, in spite of the scientific evidence to the contrary.

I, like everyone else, don't have a clue whether he did it or not. All I know is that he never failed a test. Not one. Not before races, during races, or after races. If he was cheating, he somehow was able to do what no one else was able to do, including Floyd Landis and some of his other American Teammates. How do you explain that?

Thank you, I have a little to add to this. I don't know for certain whether he cheated or not but Armstrong didn't truly get due process. It's highly plausible that after 12 years and 500 drug tests, all of which he tested negative btw, he just threw his hands up in the air and said screw all of you, you want to convict me, convict me. This guy got railroaded, the OP who's a great poster, asked "At some point when you get this many accusations brought against you, it is and extreme witch hunt or there is truth to it" I'm going with witch hunt. As one who has travelled extensively in Western Europe let me tell you that all those things you've heard about American hatred or envy by our rifle dropping "allies" is true. I think it absolutely drove the French crazy that an American, yes a boorish American, dominated their national pastime, a pastime that few here even know of as a sport. Lemond's motivations were very different, he went from being an SI athlete of the year to someone most people don't know or remember. Tell me that didn't piss him off.


And here in the U.S. don't kid yourself, the elitist left especially that sniveling little jackass Lupica who pretty much convicted Armstrong of genocide, can't stand him because he's a Texas Republican and, god forbid, a friend of the Bushes. Off with his head. So in spite of 500 clean tests and years and years of French failure in their overt and covert get Lance air and ground attack, we're convicting him of cheating based on what exactly? Kudos to Nike for seemingly being the only ones to stand by this guy. Now excuse me as I go make a big plate of freedom fries.

[jimmyz]

A lot of good points made by all.

My favorite is the comments are the ones that basically question if everyone's cheating, is anyone cheating?  That's a good point.  In reality, in football i think we all turn a blind eye to the probability that all these guys are using some type of performance enhancing drug.  Does it taint the athletes?  Maybe but truth is I generally dont care. 

So in Armstrong's case maybe one could make the point that if he is cheating and still winning so dominantly against fellow cheaters, then maybe Lance is still just better if we're considering a level playing field.

Like I said I've always thought his story stunk of fish.  But I also question why these paid-for-by-tax-dollar organizations are even involved in such issues.  Shouldnt this be a problem for the Tour De France or whatever self governing body closest to the sport is?  I always thought it was a strange spectacle to see professional baseball players in front of the grand jury.  Why is this such a big threat to Americans?  I'd say there are many recreational bicyclists who have never touched any type of PED and never intend to do so.  I think the government is exaggerating the public threat that these professional athletes pose.  I think the government raises the level of concern for many things while diminishing the effects of other things but i digress.

[Grime Time]

Well,  I lived in Austin for 7 years and I met him before has I know people who represent him publicity wise.  He's a giant douche and I don't really care about biking or if he cheated or not.  Even if I think he's a big tool there is one thing you can't deny.  This guy has raised 1/2 a Billion to fight Cancer and always has been an advocate for it.  Can't take that away Cycle gods. 

[St Marys]

Raised $millions for those in need AND, get this, never tested positive.   Says it all.

[bamagiantfan]

I was duped by this loser. I never thought that a guy famous for suing his friends and teammates for slander would be doing so to cover up his own lies. I just couldn't wrap my head around the idea that anyone could be so cold and so self absorbed with his own legacy that he would willingly challenge and offend those who stood by him during the worst times in his life (cancer), and in many cases destroying their lives in that process.

He needs to go the way of Pete Rose and be robbed of everything that matters to him. It is clear that there are parts of his interview with Oprah that could also not have been truthful. He should never be reinstated. I'm not an eye for an eye kinda guy, but having his life destroyed now after what Lemond and others have endured for years, isn't an eye for an eye anyway. It is an eye for a fingernail. I hope everyone harmed by him will pursue the same legal recourse that he subjected them to. Sue his ass off. Sue him until every memory of every prize and praise he was ever given is gone. It was all earned unfairly anyway and kept at the expense of lives of those around him. How sick is that?