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Question about Getting Inside Pressure

Started by jimmyz, February 11, 2008, 06:53:58 PM

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jimmyz

I was over on the Charger forum and many of them are envious of the inside push the Giants are able to get with the front 4. 

My question is:

Is it possible to get inside push in a 3-4 defense without blitzing inside backers?  I put this on the x's and o's forum because I'm not entirely sure where the 3-4 ends line up and I'm assuming the NT is not a pass rusher.
"The best way to get anything done is...ugh...if you hold near and dear to you ugh...then you like to be able to ugh..."

MightyGiants

That's a good question Jimmy.  I will let some of the others get the first shot at answering this.  If no one steps up, I will give my best answer.
SMART, TOUGH, DEPENDABLE

Ottomann

#2
I'll try.

There are ways to get pressure if you have a good nose tackle to draw the main blocks. In the defense that my team runs the two ends line up in the two tech position which is nose to nose with the guard. by rushing them up the middle with the nose, it creates a 3 vs 3 battle between the nose-Center and the ends-Guards, with the tackles left to pick up any extra rushers, or to help out the guards and center with their blocks. But if there is a good nose tackle, offenses will design the blocking scheme to get the nose double teamed or even triple teamed (which really sucks as the nose) with the guard(s) and the center specifically told to keep the nose out of the play. this forces the tackle to get out of his stance quickly to beat the end who is rushing up the middle. If the tackle can't get there, it's almost a free sack. So yes it's possible, but you need a good nose


Edit: Also I'm not sure if this is all true in the pros but it works in high school football

Does that help? I'm not good with explaining stuff and using words

MightyGiants

I will offer my take Jimmy.   The 3-4 defense is one in which the primary pass rush pressure comes from one of the OLBs.   Usually one of the 2 OLB will be rushing on every pass play.   The NT is a pass rusher (on passing downs) as are the two defensive ends.  However because the NT is usually a very stout player, who needs be able to occupy 2 blockers on running plays, they usually don't get a great push up the middle.   For a 3-4 to get a good middle push they usually need to blitz a safety or an ILB.   Ottoman offers some good insights, but I don't think you usually see the ends lining up over the guards (at the pro level).  I have usually seen them lining up over the tackles or between the tackles and the guards.  I have a couple of good links to articles as well as a flash video and a picture of the basic alignment



http://i.usatoday.net/sports/graphics/3_4_defenses/flash.swf


http://www.geocities.com/epark/raiders/football-101-3-4-defense.html

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/2008-01-03-defense-cover_N.htm
SMART, TOUGH, DEPENDABLE

jimmyz

#4
Thanks Otto and MG for your insights. 

My understanding of the modern day 3-4 defense is pretty basic and I was just interested to know how much such defenses have to commit in order to get inside push consistently.  Having grown up watching Parcells' Giants I have always been a big fan of the 4 Linebacker set.  But I have really come to appreciate  the 4-3 defense which is so well balanced.   Of course, it helps immensely to have a guy like Tuck inside.
"The best way to get anything done is...ugh...if you hold near and dear to you ugh...then you like to be able to ugh..."

MightyGiants

Jimmy,

My opinion is that either defense can be very effective.  It's all a matter of having the right players and a good DC.   I think the 4-3 can be extremely effective when you get someone in the DT position that can get a consistent push in the middle.  This year's Giants and the Warren Sapp Tampa defenses were two good examples of that.
SMART, TOUGH, DEPENDABLE

Painter

#6
You have gotten some good information from Ottoman and MG, jimmyz. I don't have much to add, but in regard to your specific question, Is it possible to get inside push in a 3-4 defense without blitzing inside backers?  , I would have to say that it would be more difficult.

Irrespective of whether the base alignment is a 3-4 or a 4-3, you normally will have four pass pass rushers. In the 4-3, they are the four defensive linemen. In the 3-4 defense, the three defensive linemen are usually joined by a linebacker, most often the OLB on the weak- or blind side. On passing downs, he often is up on the line of scrimmage outside the defensive end. (He's not considered to be blitzer unless another LB also rushes because a blitz by definition requires at least five rushers.)

It does sort of blur the distinction between the 3-4 and 4-3 because the responsibilities of the three remaining linebackers really aren't much different than they would be in a normal 4-3 set.  If you are trying to get pressure up the middle, then at least one of the inside LBs almost certainly would have to join the pass rush. If he does, there really is no particular reason why the usually pass rushing OLB wouldn't continue to do so. Thus, you would have a blitz.

The reason behind what I''ve just said is because the DEs and NT playing in a base 3-4 generally are the larger, run defending types, and as such are not usually ideal pass rushers. In a 3-4 alignment, the Linebackers are the principal pass rushers thus it is often more difficult to generate good  pressure with only four rushers unless at least one of the Dlinemen is an exceptionally versatile player.

Cheers!