Author Topic: Pre-Draft 3/19/17, the Elephant in the room  (Read 644 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

beaugestus

  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3359
  • Liked: 83
    • View Profile
Pre-Draft 3/19/17, the Elephant in the room
« on: March 19, 2017, 01:11:52 AM »
Here we are again, the NFL draft is upon us and with it's combination of monotony and excitement. It's kind of similar, the big gaping hole on the left side of the line and to a lesser degree RT and RG needs to be upgraded. Unfortunately, OL help is pretty much desired by a good percentage of the 32 teams. Looking at the FA signees of the OL persuasion and the numbers that it took is a reflection of their lack of availability. So, the Gmen are sitting at this moment at #23 with 2 possibly 3 round 1 LTs could fall to them. Last year, Conklin who the Titans traded up for was selected and was rumored that JR liked had a good season and became a starter at RT. Who, BTW, had a good one in Lewan at LT. Another guy who was supposedly liked by the Giants in his draft year.

Right now, Flowers has been put on notice from JR at the end of last season he has to start performing like a #1 pick. As fans, we have no idea about him regarding his attitude and thoughts about his progress. He has had two reputable OL coaches and no improvement is evident. We keep hearing his technique is terrible and no display of having the lateral ability to play T. The frightening thing is they might have to play him there with the same results. He has no competition, unless they move Pugh again.

So here we are, if the Giants agree that a OT falls to them they deem worthy they select him. If not they are going to(and rightfully so) draft another Eli Apple(or any position player worthy of the pick). I know I took some comfort that Apple turned out to be a good pick and he helped their CB positon immensely. I still would love to have bagged that elephant.

joeyfootball

  • Mod Emeritus
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2012
  • Liked: 104
    • View Profile
Re: Pre-Draft 3/19/17, the Elephant in the room
« Reply #1 on: March 19, 2017, 07:33:32 AM »
nice post. if the offensive doesn't improve no running game.

Bob In PA

  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6943
  • Liked: 405
    • View Profile
Re: Pre-Draft 3/19/17, the Elephant in the room
« Reply #2 on: March 19, 2017, 09:57:02 AM »
beau: My attitude may be difficult to understand, but I do not believe the Giants should spend any more money on left tackle this year (barring unforeseen circumstances, like injury).

Just like a QB, when a team takes a left tackle in the 1st round, they are "all in" on that guy (i.e., stuck with their choice until it plays out completely, because of the salary cap and other factors).

The 3rd year is the make-or-break season. If Flowers' light bulb goes on, great.  If not, next year, the Giants will have to plan to spend whatever it takes (money/picks) to trade up in the draft for a replacement left tackle.

And the three-year process of being "all-in" on THAT player will begin.

Bob
« Last Edit: March 19, 2017, 12:45:55 PM by Bob In PA »

Vette

  • Administrator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4412
  • Liked: 421
    • View Profile
Re: Pre-Draft 3/19/17, the Elephant in the room
« Reply #3 on: March 19, 2017, 10:04:25 AM »
If the BPA is a Tackle, the Giants should pick him. If it's a Corner, they should pick him...
"There is a greater purpose...that purpose is team. Winning, losing, playing hard, playing well, doing it for each other, winning the right way, winning the right way is a very important thing to me... Championships are won by teams who love one another, who respect one another, and play for and support one another."
~ Coach Tom Coughlin

Bob In PA

  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6943
  • Liked: 405
    • View Profile
Re: Pre-Draft 3/19/17, the Elephant in the room
« Reply #4 on: March 19, 2017, 10:16:48 AM »
If the BPA is a Tackle, the Giants should pick him. If it's a Corner, they should pick him...

Ed: Despite what I just wrote above, I totally agree.

I didn't mention that possibility because I think there's no way it will happen (in the 1st round).

On a side note, just guessing, but I don't think the Giants like any of the potential first-round OL's that much.

Maybe Ramcyzk, and I'm sure they would take him in the second round, but as you suggest, this year they are likely to get a STARTER with pick 23, and that is like finding gold.

Bob

todge

  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 10618
  • Liked: 210
    • View Profile
Re: Pre-Draft 3/19/17, the Elephant in the room
« Reply #5 on: March 19, 2017, 11:55:47 AM »
I will be simply astounded if the Giants go into this year with no competition or depth at OLT.  Despite the wishes of many fans, the Giants know that Pugh can't play OLT or ORT, so he is not an option. Therefore, I think the Giants may be aggressive this year and attempt to move up to secure Bolles. They will probably have a shot at Ramczyk at #23.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

dasher

  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2832
  • Liked: 27
  • Ladies of my life
    • View Profile
Re: Pre-Draft 3/19/17, the Elephant in the room
« Reply #6 on: March 19, 2017, 12:07:32 PM »
Ted,
Why  don't you think Pugh can play OT?
Hopefully not his arm length.
I think he could prove to be good if given the chance.
dale

Dennis

  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2883
  • Liked: 83
    • View Profile
Re: Pre-Draft 3/19/17, the Elephant in the room
« Reply #7 on: March 19, 2017, 12:46:20 PM »
I plan on being mildly surprised and pleased by the pick unless it's a punter or a kicker.  I also understand that this organization does a fair to middling job at evaluating O-linemen based on drafting history so if they pick a tackle or a guard...well, we'll see.  This attitude indicates my faith in the Giants ability to do the right thing for the most part, at least in the first round.  Yes Flowers could have been a mistake but the Giants have made it clear that Flowers, at this point, it the nominal LT moving forward.  The potential for success, although not very encouraging, still it is there.

I am all for BPA.  Or BPA at a position of need.

bamagiantfan

  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 11993
  • Liked: 239
    • View Profile
Re: Pre-Draft 3/19/17, the Elephant in the room
« Reply #8 on: March 19, 2017, 01:07:13 PM »
If the BPA is a Tackle, the Giants should pick him. If it's a Corner, they should pick him...

Just curious, what do you think they should do if the best player available is a QB?
Go Giants!

Vette

  • Administrator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4412
  • Liked: 421
    • View Profile
Re: Pre-Draft 3/19/17, the Elephant in the room
« Reply #9 on: March 19, 2017, 01:29:49 PM »
Just curious, what do you think they should do if the best player available is a QB?

If they have knowledge that Eli is looking to pack it in soon or if their metrics show deterioration then I would expect them to make the pick if he was the BPA. I don't think this class has that and if they ink Geno I think that speaks for this draft class evaluation.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
"There is a greater purpose...that purpose is team. Winning, losing, playing hard, playing well, doing it for each other, winning the right way, winning the right way is a very important thing to me... Championships are won by teams who love one another, who respect one another, and play for and support one another."
~ Coach Tom Coughlin

Vette

  • Administrator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4412
  • Liked: 421
    • View Profile
Re: Pre-Draft 3/19/17, the Elephant in the room
« Reply #10 on: March 19, 2017, 01:32:15 PM »
Ted,
Why  don't you think Pugh can play OT?
Hopefully not his arm length.
I think he could prove to be good if given the chance.
dale
Dale, Ted said the Giants know Pugh can't play Tackle. How he knows that for sure would be my question. He must have an inside source, otherwise it's opinion.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
"There is a greater purpose...that purpose is team. Winning, losing, playing hard, playing well, doing it for each other, winning the right way, winning the right way is a very important thing to me... Championships are won by teams who love one another, who respect one another, and play for and support one another."
~ Coach Tom Coughlin

beaugestus

  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3359
  • Liked: 83
    • View Profile
Re: Pre-Draft 3/19/17, the Elephant in the room
« Reply #11 on: March 19, 2017, 01:43:19 PM »
I agree with todge that the team cannot go into the season without at least some depth at LT. We are witnessing that the Giants are very close to competing for the SB. My question would be can they acquire somebody lower in the draft?  Charlie Casserly in his early mock had the Giants trading up for Ramczyk. It could be,if they agree with him about his ability.

What I don't want is for them to reach for anyone with a high pick.

todge

  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 10618
  • Liked: 210
    • View Profile
Re: Pre-Draft 3/19/17, the Elephant in the room
« Reply #12 on: March 19, 2017, 01:43:50 PM »
Isn't it logic that he can't and won't?  They tried him at right tackle and after a less than mediocre stint there, they moved him to guard. So, in the eyes of the organization, if they deemed him not a right tackle, then why would they move him to left tackle which is an even more demanding position?

Show me one bit of evidence or verbiage that the Giants are considering moving Pugh to left tackle.  It is apparent that the team is going to leave him at left guard.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

todge

  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 10618
  • Liked: 210
    • View Profile
Re: Pre-Draft 3/19/17, the Elephant in the room
« Reply #13 on: March 19, 2017, 01:53:09 PM »
Ted,
Why  don't you think Pugh can play OT?
Hopefully not his arm length.
I think he could prove to be good if given the chance.
dale

Hi Dale!  Pugh was a less than mediocre right tackle. The Giants moved him to guard, then went out and bought a right tackle in Fluker.  So it is apparent they no longer consider him an ORT. As to left tackle - yes, short arms are one of the reasons why he isn't a successful pass blocker. He does not have length in his arm radius and struggles to fend off speed on the edge. He also does not have left tackle feet or lateral agility. He could play either tackle spot in the event of injury. But his deficient skill set will be quite evident over the course of several games.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

babywhales

  • Administrator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8191
  • Liked: 131
    • View Profile
Re: Pre-Draft 3/19/17, the Elephant in the room
« Reply #14 on: March 19, 2017, 03:05:51 PM »
Multiple times it has been stated Flowers is as hard a worker as they get. 


I do not think work ethic is his problem, he just is not getting the job done.
“The biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has been accomplished.”– G.B.S