Author Topic: A less than steller review of LT Ramczyk by NFL scouts  (Read 293 times)

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MightyGiants

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A less than steller review of LT Ramczyk by NFL scouts
« on: April 19, 2017, 09:17:55 AM »
Now maybe this is because the Packers want him to fall to them (this is the lying season for NFL teams).   Although the one thing that bothered me is after playing football at the junior college level for 2 years he ended up redshirting his first season at UW.  If he really is an NFL caliber LT, I would have thought that he would have started or at least have been a backup his first year.   Still here is the report

RYAN RAMCZYK, T, Wisconsin (6-5½, 309, no 40): Played at Stevens Point. Was starting LT at UW-Stevens Point in 2013-'14, redshirted at UW in ’15 and was consensus All-American as LT in ’16. Has been likened in terms of size to Paul Gruber, the ex-Badger who was the fourth pick in 1988 and had an exceptional career for the Buccaneers. “Paul Gruber was much more of a technician and a better athlete,” said one scout. “Better player. In a lot of drafts this guy would be a second-rounder. He’s not a dancing bear. He’s got good balance but the lateral range isn’t there.” Underwent hip surgery in January and won’t run a 40 before the draft. “Medical is a concern,” said a second scout. “I thought he was OK. Has ability to be maybe a low-end starter. I’m not a huge fan.” Average arm length (33¾ inches), huge hands (10 7/8 inches). Projection: Top 35 pick.

http://www.jsonline.com/story/sports/nfl/packers/2017/04/15/nfl-draft-projecting-state-prospects/100464900/
« Last Edit: April 19, 2017, 09:29:50 AM by MightyGiants »
"THE 2007 and 2011 GIANTS WERE NEVER PERFECT, NOR MEANT TO BE.  THEY WERE FIGHTERS, SCRAPPERS, NOW THEY CAN BE CALLED SOMETHING ELSE....WORLD CHAMPIONS!"

Bob In PA

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Re: A less than steller review of LT Ramczyk by NFL scouts
« Reply #1 on: April 19, 2017, 09:23:12 AM »
Now maybe this is because the Packers want him to fall to them (this is the lying season for NFL teams).   Although the one thing that bothered me is after playing football at the junior college level for 2 years he ended up redshirting his first season at UW.  If he really is an NFL caliber LT, I would have thought that he would have started his first year.   Still here is the report

RYAN RAMCZYK, T, Wisconsin (6-5½, 309, no 40): Played at Stevens Point. Was starting LT at UW-Stevens Point in 2013-'14, redshirted at UW in ’15 and was consensus All-American as LT in ’16. Has been likened in terms of size to Paul Gruber, the ex-Badger who was the fourth pick in 1988 and had an exceptional career for the Buccaneers. “Paul Gruber was much more of a technician and a better athlete,” said one scout. “Better player. In a lot of drafts this guy would be a second-rounder. He’s not a dancing bear. He’s got good balance but the lateral range isn’t there.” Underwent hip surgery in January and won’t run a 40 before the draft. “Medical is a concern,” said a second scout. “I thought he was OK. Has ability to be maybe a low-end starter. I’m not a huge fan.” Average arm length (33¾ inches), huge hands (10 7/8 inches). Projection: Top 35 pick.

http://www.jsonline.com/story/sports/nfl/packers/2017/04/15/nfl-draft-projecting-state-prospects/100464900/

Interesting.  The WORDS say almost nothing good, but the "bottom line" is that he is a Top 35 pick.  What a year to be the Giants!!!  Bob

todge

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Re: A less than steller review of LT Ramczyk by NFL scouts
« Reply #2 on: April 19, 2017, 12:05:46 PM »
So I guess that's it huh?  Ramczyk can't play because a certain scout says so? 

Would love to see that same scout's rave reviews on Fisher, Joekel and Johnson in 2013.

In the interest of fair play Rich.  How about posting a good scouting review for Ramczyk?  There are plenty of those out there too.

MightyGiants

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Re: A less than steller review of LT Ramczyk by NFL scouts
« Reply #3 on: April 19, 2017, 12:20:40 PM »
So I guess that's it huh?  Ramczyk can't play because a certain scout says so? 

Would love to see that same scout's rave reviews on Fisher, Joekel and Johnson in 2013.

In the interest of fair play Rich.  How about posting a good scouting review for Ramczyk?  There are plenty of those out there too.

Your wish (the first one) is my command

1. LUKE JOECKEL, Texas A&M (6-6, 307, 5.30, 1) - Third-year junior started all 39 games at LT. "Look," one scout said. "There are times he gets rag-dolled. But you also have a pretty sure bet. What you see is what you get. He will start at left tackle and be real good." The son of a trial lawyer in Fort Worth, Texas, he scored 28 on the Wonderlic intelligence test. "Joeckel comes from a well-to-do family so he doesn't have that hunger that a lot of people have," another scout said. "He's not a flat-out, Walter Jones type, but he's every bit as good as Joe Thomas is. He's not a Hall of Famer, but he's really good." Arm length (34 ¼ inches) and hand size (10 1/8 inches) are good, not great. "He's just like Matt Kalil's double," a third scout said. "He's a great athlete with great technique. The only negative I have is he's not a powerful person. He gets pushed at times. I worry about him on the power."

2. ERIC FISHER, Central Michigan (6-7 ½, 304, 5.07, 1) - Only offers out of Stoney Creek (Mich.) High School were Eastern Michigan and CMU. "Just a late bloomer," said Phil Savage, executive director of the Senior Bowl and a former personnel man for the Browns and Ravens. "He wasn't perfect at the Senior Bowl, but he was impressive. He looks like a pro. He's played in a two-point and a three-point (stance); it hasn't been all spread. You see him block down and use his hands. I think he's a little more ready to play today than Joeckel as far as the strength factor." Made 28 of his 34 starts at LT. Put on 60 pounds since arriving in Mount Pleasant, Mich. "First thing that jumped out at me was his ability to bend," Tennessee scout Johnny Meads said. "He's tough and physical enough. He has everything you want." Son of a postal worker in Rochester, Mich. Wonderlic of 23.

and bonus review on Pugh (who was listed as a guard)

3. JUSTIN PUGH, Syracuse (6-4 ½, 304, 5.15, 1-2) - Three-year starter at LT. "He is short-armed (32), and he does play short-armed," one scout said. "Everybody wants to make him a guard because of that. That's fine. Maybe. I like bigger, thicker guys at guard. I'll make him a center. I was thinking about guys like Max Unger or Trey Teague, somebody that made the tackle-to-center switch. You can get away with shorter arms and less mass at center." Graduated with a degree in finance in 3 ½ years. "One of the smartest guys I've (scouted) in 12 years," another scout said. "Like a coach on the field." From Holland, Pa. Played in a pro-style offense. "He came into our room at Indy and told us he was a left tackle, which I'm sure his agent told him to say because they make the most money," a third scout said. "He doesn't have the feet to play out on an island. He is ornery. Good technician. He's high intangibles. He bends well enough. He's a second- or third-round guy that will be a solid player for a long time."

and here is your second wish (well sort of, I am not going to cherry pick data to support a conclusion) from Greg Gabriel who has proven he knows a thing or two about scouting

THE WAY WE SEE IT • When I originally
viewed tape on Ramczyk, I felt he may have
short arms and would have to move inside to
guard. That proved not to be the case as his
arms measured 33 3/4 inches at the Combine.
Ramczyk is very interesting in that he was a
D-3 player who transferred up to D-I and performed
very well. Not many have ever done
that, especially on the O-line. Ramczyk is a
strong and efficient player who doesn’t make
mistakes. I still question if he has the range to
play on the left side in the NFL but he can, at
worst, be a very capable right tackle. Being he
has only played one year at a high level of competition,
he still has a lot of upside. Will be one
of the first tackles drafted.

Nawrocki's scout called him talented but lacking in power and wonders if he might not be better suited to guard
"THE 2007 and 2011 GIANTS WERE NEVER PERFECT, NOR MEANT TO BE.  THEY WERE FIGHTERS, SCRAPPERS, NOW THEY CAN BE CALLED SOMETHING ELSE....WORLD CHAMPIONS!"

Hadron

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Re: A less than steller review of LT Ramczyk by NFL scouts
« Reply #4 on: April 19, 2017, 12:49:22 PM »
The site Rich referenced usually pulls up decent scouting reports.

Two common themes I've seen with Ramcyzk: passion for the game and durability. Both are serious concerns given a hip injury in limited play and deviating from the game to pursue something else before returning.

By all accounts, he projects to be a starter (somewhere on the line) so long as he can stay healthy and keep his focus on the game.

todge

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Re: A less than steller review of LT Ramczyk by NFL scouts
« Reply #5 on: April 19, 2017, 01:44:16 PM »
Good stuff Rich.

Interesting comments that just support my theory that these Scouting Reports are not 100% foolproof and that we should take them with a grain of salt:

Joekel  - "every bit as good as Joe Thomas".   

Fisher - "he's everything you want".

The Draft is a crapshoot guys.  Always has been ... always will be.  No one knows for sure who will be good and who will not be.




MightyGiants

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Re: A less than steller review of LT Ramczyk by NFL scouts
« Reply #6 on: April 19, 2017, 02:28:59 PM »
Good stuff Rich.

Interesting comments that just support my theory that these Scouting Reports are not 100% foolproof and that we should take them with a grain of salt:

Joekel  - "every bit as good as Joe Thomas".   

Fisher - "he's everything you want".

The Draft is a crapshoot guys.  Always has been ... always will be.  No one knows for sure who will be good and who will not be.

I never liked the "draft is a crapshoot" phrase.  Craps is a game of pure chance.  Scouting does have skill.   Scouting will always have uncertainty because you are dealing with the unpredictability of people and you are asking people to predict the future.


One of the interesting things about Joekel and Fisher is that injuries minor and some major hampered their development.  They also both seem to have been hurt by moves to right tackle (which I suspect is why the Giants are so reluctant to move Flowers).   The other interesting thing is the lack of power comment Joekel and I think that is a lesson to remember in this draft.  "Getting stronger" is easier to say than doing.  This is a point to remember when considering prospects like Bolles and Garcia and even Ramczyk

« Last Edit: April 19, 2017, 02:43:59 PM by MightyGiants »
"THE 2007 and 2011 GIANTS WERE NEVER PERFECT, NOR MEANT TO BE.  THEY WERE FIGHTERS, SCRAPPERS, NOW THEY CAN BE CALLED SOMETHING ELSE....WORLD CHAMPIONS!"

Hadron

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Re: A less than steller review of LT Ramczyk by NFL scouts
« Reply #7 on: April 19, 2017, 03:28:11 PM »
Outside of Matthews, we've seen two different A&M LTs (under Sumlin) underperform at the pro level.


Painter

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Re: A less than steller review of LT Ramczyk by NFL scouts
« Reply #8 on: April 19, 2017, 07:17:42 PM »
I can't see much value in reprinting any so called scouting report or player evaluation for fear that it would be viewed as cherry-picking for the purpose of confirmation bias unless it actually was my purpose.

We all know that there are scores of such things out there the legitimate basis of which we have no certain knowledge. Moreover, we do know that there can be quite a bit of variance among them in terms of outlook and conclusion.
To prove the point in this particular case, here is an assessment which differs rather much from the JSOnline representation:

Draft Projection Round 1

Sources Tell Us "He's really athletic and he's really smart. There are a lot of Wisconsin linemen who start in the league because they learn an NFL system and they are taught the right way. He played against Arden Key, Sam Hubbard and Taco Charlton. This guy is battle tested against three future first rounders." - NFC midwest scout

NFL Comparison Joe Staley

Bottom Line Extremely confident tackle with the athleticism to stay on the left side and the technique to make an early impact as a starter. Ramczyk has the core strength and body control that should keep him connected to blocks in both the run and pass and he's proven to be scheme versatile with his playing style. Ramczyk is an early starter with the potential to become a good starting left tackle provided his medicals hold up.


I suspect most folks here have seen that excerpt from NFL.com  Personally, I would make just two observation about it. "Sources Tell Us", and "-NFL midwest scout" are its most meaningless elements while "...provided his medicals hold up" is the most meaningful.

Cheers!

MightyGiants

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Re: A less than steller review of LT Ramczyk by NFL scouts
« Reply #9 on: April 20, 2017, 08:05:52 AM »
I can't see much value in reprinting any so called scouting report or player evaluation for fear that it would be viewed as cherry-picking for the purpose of confirmation bias unless it actually was my purpose.

We all know that there are scores of such things out there the legitimate basis of which we have no certain knowledge. Moreover, we do know that there can be quite a bit of variance among them in terms of outlook and conclusion.
To prove the point in this particular case, here is an assessment which differs rather much from the JSOnline representation:

Draft Projection Round 1

Sources Tell Us "He's really athletic and he's really smart. There are a lot of Wisconsin linemen who start in the league because they learn an NFL system and they are taught the right way. He played against Arden Key, Sam Hubbard and Taco Charlton. This guy is battle tested against three future first rounders." - NFC midwest scout

NFL Comparison Joe Staley

Bottom Line Extremely confident tackle with the athleticism to stay on the left side and the technique to make an early impact as a starter. Ramczyk has the core strength and body control that should keep him connected to blocks in both the run and pass and he's proven to be scheme versatile with his playing style. Ramczyk is an early starter with the potential to become a good starting left tackle provided his medicals hold up.


I suspect most folks here have seen that excerpt from NFL.com  Personally, I would make just two observation about it. "Sources Tell Us", and "-NFL midwest scout" are its most meaningless elements while "...provided his medicals hold up" is the most meaningful.

Cheers!

Larry, I like Lance Zierlein over at NFL.com.  I can tell he has received formal scouting training because he reports are written correctly.  He uses the correct language and terms that scouts use and in the correct manner.   On top of that, I find his scouting usually spot on and generally stand the test of time.   His quotes from scouts is a nice touch.

When it comes to differing opinions on players, as Greg Gabriel would say, "it's not important who is right, but that we get it right".   As Pat Kirwan says, if you have differing views on a player go back to the film and watch what the other person is seeing.  Getting it right is the key

With Ramczyk though, I am not sure it's easy to just use the year's worth of games.   Missing the Combine and Pro Day was not ideal as that means any questions about speed or agility (based on watching tape) went unanswered and what was assumed from the tape went unconfirmed.

My overall feel fro Ramczyk is he could be a solid but not spectacular left tackle.  Unfortunately, with Ramczyk I think there are so many red flags.  In my opinion while he could be a good LT I think he has an above average bust risk.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2017, 08:19:53 AM by MightyGiants »
"THE 2007 and 2011 GIANTS WERE NEVER PERFECT, NOR MEANT TO BE.  THEY WERE FIGHTERS, SCRAPPERS, NOW THEY CAN BE CALLED SOMETHING ELSE....WORLD CHAMPIONS!"

madbadger

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Re: A less than steller review of LT Ramczyk by NFL scouts
« Reply #10 on: April 20, 2017, 10:52:57 AM »
The comments about Paul Gruber cracked me up. IMHO Paul is one of the best players in the past 40 years who is not in the Hall Of Fame. He was a dominant LT on the worst team in NFL history and always overlooked. Being less athletic than Gruber applies to 99% of the tackles drafted since 1988.