Author Topic: Bob McGinn's article on OL Prospects  (Read 736 times)

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UKGiantsFan

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Bob McGinn's article on OL Prospects
« on: April 21, 2017, 10:41:35 AM »
Great read as usual

http://www.jsonline.com/story/sports/nfl/packers/mcginn/2017/04/20/ranking-nfl-draft-prospects-offensive-linemen/100659818/

But oh my some of those wonderlic scores (spoiler alert for Rich - Dawkins 'improved' from 9 to 12 second time around. And he beat Bolles by the extra three!)

AP44

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Re: Bob McGinn's article on OL Prospects
« Reply #1 on: April 21, 2017, 10:44:12 AM »
I have never been a fire Reese type guy.

But if we take an OL or a Qb round 1, I would be forced too. This is not the year to force one of those positions.

JiJaJe999

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Re: Bob McGinn's article on OL Prospects
« Reply #2 on: April 21, 2017, 10:56:01 AM »
I have never been a fire Reese type guy.

But if we take an OL or a Qb round 1, I would be forced too. This is not the year to force one of those positions.


The OL need is completely overblown.

All 5 starters are on the roster.

Fluker could have a career year at RT and be resigned after the season, also.

MightyGiants

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Re: Bob McGinn's article on OL Prospects
« Reply #3 on: April 21, 2017, 11:21:24 AM »
Great read as usual

http://www.jsonline.com/story/sports/nfl/packers/mcginn/2017/04/20/ranking-nfl-draft-prospects-offensive-linemen/100659818/

But oh my some of those wonderlic scores (spoiler alert for Rich - Dawkins 'improved' from 9 to 12 second time around. And he beat Bolles by the extra three!)


No doubt Wonderlic seems to be an important part of the Combine for an offensive lineman (I am surprised there is never an issue with these scores coming out as they are supposed to be kept secret).  Still, it's only a weak indicator of football intelligence.   Teams have the edge in this measure because they are allowed to ask them football questions and have them do board work in interviews. 

I also happened to notice that Dawkins was their 4th ranked offensive TACKLE though. 
"THE 2007 and 2011 GIANTS WERE NEVER PERFECT, NOR MEANT TO BE.  THEY WERE FIGHTERS, SCRAPPERS, NOW THEY CAN BE CALLED SOMETHING ELSE....WORLD CHAMPIONS!"

Fla-Gman

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Re: Bob McGinn's article on OL Prospects
« Reply #4 on: April 21, 2017, 11:30:36 AM »
It's like your looking for the lesser of the evils with this group of OLmen. I can't see first round here, but you know it will happen.  I hope just not to the NYG.

MightyGiants

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Re: Bob McGinn's article on OL Prospects
« Reply #5 on: April 21, 2017, 11:34:36 AM »
I could see this prospect as an intriguing day 2 pick for the Giants.  He has a lot of the things that the Giants seem to value in their offensive linemen and prospects in general.

JULIE’N DAVENPORT, Bucknell (6-6 ½, 317, 5.44, 3): Led the tackles in arm length (36 ½) and the Wonderlic (28). “He’s a project,” one scout said. “Going into the Senior Bowl you compared him to Garcia, but Garcia is leaps and bounds better. Kind of soft. You take a chance because of the length.” Four-year starter at LT. “If you’re drafting him on looks alone he’s wow,” another scout said. “But he needs a ton of work.” Two-time captain with the longest wingspan (87 ½) of any player at the combine. From Paulsboro, N.J., where he also excelled in basketball. “Grew up in a really bad area,” said a third scout. “Very smart. Kind of kid I’d like to work with.”



I will also add that the closer we get to the draft and the more I learn about Bolles the more I fear he has a serious bust factor.   
« Last Edit: April 21, 2017, 11:36:59 AM by MightyGiants »
"THE 2007 and 2011 GIANTS WERE NEVER PERFECT, NOR MEANT TO BE.  THEY WERE FIGHTERS, SCRAPPERS, NOW THEY CAN BE CALLED SOMETHING ELSE....WORLD CHAMPIONS!"

4thand17

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Re: Bob McGinn's article on OL Prospects
« Reply #6 on: April 21, 2017, 12:14:55 PM »

Dawkins in the second round is great value.  Don't care what the Wonderlic is.

todge

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Re: Bob McGinn's article on OL Prospects
« Reply #7 on: April 21, 2017, 01:27:59 PM »
I have never been a fire Reese type guy.

But if we take an OL or a Qb round 1, I would be forced too. This is not the year to force one of those positions.

So you are going to lead the charge to "fire Jerry Reese" for looking to improve the worst part of this team right now? The worst OLT in league, a left guard with concussion issues who may not be resigned, a center who has issues with larger nose tackles, a 32 old right guard who can't run block a lick and a new right tackle who may leave for greener pastures after next year.  All this leading to no running game and Eli being under pressure virtually every pass play which led to the offense going into the tank last year.

Nothing to worry about ... right?

AP44

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Re: Bob McGinn's article on OL Prospects
« Reply #8 on: April 21, 2017, 01:39:01 PM »
So you are going to lead the charge to "fire Jerry Reese" for looking to improve the worst part of this team right now? The worst OLT in league, a left guard with concussion issues who may not be resigned, a center who has issues with larger nose tackles, a 32 old right guard who can't run block a lick and a new right tackle who may leave for greener pastures after next year.  All this leading to no running game and Eli being under pressure virtually every pass play which led to the offense going into the tank last year.

Nothing to worry about ... right?

I've said this before and I'll say it again. Just because we have a need doesnt mean you force a pick. These OL are not first round worthy players. If they want to draft a guy in the 2nd/3rd/4th round - I am fine with it. But the oft mentioned 4 guys (lamp, robinson, ramcyzk, and bolles) are not guys I would take chances on in the first round. You can get similar type players in other rounds.

MightyGiants

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Re: Bob McGinn's article on OL Prospects
« Reply #9 on: April 21, 2017, 01:43:19 PM »
Quote
Seventeen evaluators agreed this month to rank their five best offensive linemen on a 1-to-5 basis. Five points were awarded for a first-place vote, four for a second and so on.

It was a tight race for the top, with Robinson (59 points, two firsts) edging Bolles (57, nine) and Ramczyk (53, five).

Following, in order, were Forrest Lamp, 38 (one); Dion Dawkins, 14 ½; Dan Feeney, 14; Ethan Pocic, 11; Pat Elflein, Dorian Johnson and Taylor Moton, two; Antonio Garcia, 1 ½, and Ben Braden, one.

For the most part, scouts are paid by teams to come down on one side or the other. You either like a player or you don’t.

On Ramczyk, conversations with 14 evaluators indicated a 7-7 split.

http://www.jsonline.com/story/sports/nfl/packers/mcginn/2017/04/20/mcginn-nfl-draft-ol-ramczyk-tops-uncertain-crop/100659750/
"THE 2007 and 2011 GIANTS WERE NEVER PERFECT, NOR MEANT TO BE.  THEY WERE FIGHTERS, SCRAPPERS, NOW THEY CAN BE CALLED SOMETHING ELSE....WORLD CHAMPIONS!"

bamagiantfan

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Re: Bob McGinn's article on OL Prospects
« Reply #10 on: April 21, 2017, 01:44:59 PM »
So you are going to lead the charge to "fire Jerry Reese" for looking to improve the worst part of this team right now? The worst OLT in league, a left guard with concussion issues who may not be resigned, a center who has issues with larger nose tackles, a 32 old right guard who can't run block a lick and a new right tackle who may leave for greener pastures after next year.  All this leading to no running game and Eli being under pressure virtually every pass play which led to the offense going into the tank last year.

Nothing to worry about ... right?

I'd like to know what you REALLY think.
Go Giants!

todge

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Bob McGinn's article on OL Prospects
« Reply #11 on: April 21, 2017, 05:12:06 PM »
I've said this before and I'll say it again. Just because we have a need doesnt mean you force a pick. These OL are not first round worthy players. If they want to draft a guy in the 2nd/3rd/4th round - I am fine with it. But the oft mentioned 4 guys (lamp, robinson, ramcyzk, and bolles) are not guys I would take chances on in the first round. You can get similar type players in other rounds.

In your opinion these guys are not 1st Round players. I can find a hundred more that disagree with you. In the end, it doesn't make a difference what we think. The Giants have a multimillion dollar scouting operation to rank these players.

I happen to think Bolles and Ramczyk would be instant starters and upgrades to our OLT. I agree with several other Scouts who feel Robinson is a Top 15 pick at OLT.




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« Last Edit: April 21, 2017, 05:18:34 PM by todge »

Hadron

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Re: Bob McGinn's article on OL Prospects
« Reply #12 on: April 21, 2017, 06:17:33 PM »
In your opinion these guys are not 1st Round players. I can find a hundred more that disagree with you. In the end, it doesn't make a difference what we think. The Giants have a multimillion dollar scouting operation to rank these players.

I happen to think Bolles and Ramczyk would be instant starters and upgrades to our OLT. I agree with several other Scouts who feel Robinson is a Top 15 pick at OLT.




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I'm this draft? They definitely qualify as first rounders. Compared to other years? Eh.

Could they compete for a starting position? Probably. Both tackle spots are suspect and they would probably be an upgrade at RG.

Offensive line could be an issue as I don't expect the Giants to be able to afford both Pugh/Richburg next year. Especially if Pugh continues to display durability issues.

Painter

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Re: Bob McGinn's article on OL Prospects
« Reply #13 on: April 21, 2017, 07:36:21 PM »
Didn't we dispose of that one yesterday or the day before? Do we think some whomever on the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel website has a superior source of intelligence information? Or does he suit us better for whatever is our reason? Given the long history of inaccuracy of all these guys, drawing attention to them, if not promoting them, is a sure way to squander our own credibility. Wait a minute. I didn't notice that was good old McGinn. That changes everything for me.

Cheers!

todge

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Bob McGinn's article on OL Prospects
« Reply #14 on: April 21, 2017, 09:38:20 PM »
I'm this draft? They definitely qualify as first rounders. Compared to other years? Eh.

Could they compete for a starting position? Probably. Both tackle spots are suspect and they would probably be an upgrade at RG.

Offensive line could be an issue as I don't expect the Giants to be able to afford both Pugh/Richburg next year. Especially if Pugh continues to display durability issues.

Other years don't mean a thing. Everyone is so hung up on "if this was last year...". Well it's not last year. Even if it was, so what? We have such poor memories that we have forgotten the lessons learned of 2013. The first three out of four picks were "can't miss" OLTs and two out of three missed with Fisher being mediocre at best. So much for the best OLT class of all time as one noted scout put it.

Robinson, Bolles and Ramczyk could all turn out to be solid OLTs. So the Giants are supposed to pass on them because the OLT class isn't as good as last years?  Sorry but I just don't understand the collective logic of this Board regarding this years OLT class. God we have a trainwreck there now. But no ... let's pass on anyone because the class isn't that good this year. Ridiculous.




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« Last Edit: April 21, 2017, 09:44:45 PM by todge »