Author Topic: 11th best in the NFC ????  (Read 512 times)

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Bob In PA

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11th best in the NFC ????
« on: June 19, 2017, 11:44:13 AM »
Exceprts from PFF's attempt to rank NFC teams....  I included only teams ranked ahead of the Giants, and omitted details for teams not on the Giants' schedule:

1. Atlanta Falcons (projected record: 12-4)
2. Dallas Cowboys (10-6) After a disappointing exit from the playoffs, the Cowboys in some senses took a step back in the offseason. Four defensive backs who had overall grades above 75 in 2016 are now on different rosters, and it will likely take a year or two for the defensive backs they drafted to replace them to be fully up to speed. What is working in their favor is they had a lot of key contributors in 2016 who were rookies and should step their game up. Even outside of Dak Prescott and Ezekiel Elliott, cornerback Anthony Brown and defensive tackle Maliek Collins made strides as the season went on. As of Week 12, Collins had a pass-rushing productivity of 3.57, but from Week 13 on that was up to 8.16.
3. Green Bay Packers (10-6)
4. Arizona Cardinals (10-6)  In 2015, the Cardinals were a game away from the Super Bowl. They followed that up with a season where they were top 12 in terms of PFF overall grade for the team, and they scored 50 more points than they allowed, but still ended up with a losing record. They will definitely miss longtime veteran Calais Campbell, but many of the lowest-graded players on the roster are either no longer on the roster or will no longer see playing time unless there is an injury. Winning more close games than they lose should get the Cardinals on the right side of .500, and if Carson Palmer or Tyrann Mathieu is able to return to their 2015 form, Arizona should find their way back into the playoffs.
5. Seattle Seahawks (10-6)  The Seahawks were close to 10-6 last year, and not much has changed for them. They made a few changes on the offensive line but it’s unclear if that will impact the line’s overall quality. Eddie Lacy (77.3) and Bradley McDougald (79.0) were two underrated free agent moves. Since 2013 Lacy has had 169 defenders miss tackles on his carries; a number only topped by Marshawn Lynch, DeMarco Murray and LeSean McCoy. While they might be reasons for optimism, the star players on the roster are either at their prime, or reaching the downside of their career. If the team is able to improve on the last year, they’ll need some of their younger players to take big steps forward.
6. Carolina Panthers (9-7)
7. New Orleans Saints (9-7)
8. Philadelphia Eagles (9-7)  Position by position, the Eagles have one of the better rosters in the league. One of the main things that held the team back in 2016 was Carson Wentz. Over the first five games of the season Wentz looked like one of the best rookie quarterbacks the league has seen, but from Week 7 on was among the lowest-graded. Typically you expect improvement from year one to two, and the odds are even better after the addition of Alshon Jeffery. Since 2013, he has 2.15 yards per route run, which is 10th-best for wide receivers in that time. If both Wentz and the cornerbacks can take steps forward, this team could be much higher. If not it will be difficult to stand out in a competitive division.
9. Minnesota Vikings (9-7)
10. Tampa Bay Buccaneers (9-7)  The Buccaneers went 6-2 during the second half of the 2016 season, and are a hot pick as a breakout team in 2017. One of their biggest problems will be their competition; all three teams in the division have a quarterback and head coach who have been NFC champions at some point in the last decade. They are also top-heavy in that they have a few very good players, but not as much depth as other teams in the NFC. An injury to a key player would devastate this team more than it would other contenders. On defense, some of their best players are either at an age where they are unlikely to get better, or are players where their best season was a few years ago. If their older defenders can maintain their level of play, their other stars return to their old form, and young players progress like you would like to see, then this team is a playoff team. That requires a lot of things to go right.
11. New York Giants (8-8)  The Giants were a playoff team in 2016, but similar to the Buccaneers might have difficulty replicating their success because they have a few star players but not as much depth as other teams. Their big offseason move of adding Brandon Marshall should help as he’s helped the other offenses he’s been on. No receiver has made more defenders miss tackles on his catches in the PFF era than Marshall’s 157. However, Eli Manning has had his PFF pass grade decrease every year since 2011, and it is rare to see any NFL player turn their career around at age 36. Their biggest strength last year was at defensive back, but defensive backs are the position we see the least consistency in play from one year to the next. With how competitive the NFC should be this year, the Giants will need to find a way to win a lot of close games.

As usual, not much respect, although as I've mentioned several times this year's schedule will be tough. 

Bob

Jolly Blue Giant

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Re: 11th best in the NFC ????
« Reply #1 on: June 19, 2017, 11:58:49 AM »
I like it when we are ranked low and teams will be caught off guard. In short, rankings are meaningless - they represent one man's (or perhaps a couple of men or women's) OPINION. It neither wins games or loses games and it has zero implications about the upcoming season. Sure, it's a feel good moment to read your team is ranked #1 - but again, it's meaningless except for the pursuing let down when you discover you're not #1.

In short, the Giants are good, perhaps very good....maybe even very, very good. But they have a tough schedule and nothing changes everything faster than injuries. That goes for all teams.

My prognosis of the upcoming season is meaningless, but if I had to put something to paper to keep my job I'd predict the Giants to win the division with a 10-6 record and go on to the Super Bowl where the Giants defeat the Steelers. And my guess is as good as anyone else. Heck, I watched a girl in first grade get every pick right for the week based entirely on the colors of the uniforms she liked.

Regardless - I'd rather be ranked low than high. It's a bit absurd that this guy has the Cowboy's (who lost their entire defensive backfield) as #2 and Filthydelphia #8 - both ahead of the Giants.

todge

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Re: 11th best in the NFC ????
« Reply #2 on: June 19, 2017, 12:20:33 PM »
I can see the Giants hovering around .500 so I have no problem with any other prognostications.  But what I do have a problem with is coupling that prediction with Eli's declining PFF scores.  For those of us who actually watched the Giants play last year - we all knew that Eli was under duress in just about every pass play.  That was the reason why his PFF scores were poor .. not because he is over the hill and washed up.

jimv

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Re: 11th best in the NFC ????
« Reply #3 on: June 19, 2017, 12:21:10 PM »
I like it when we are ranked low and teams will be caught off guard. In short, rankings are meaningless - they represent one man's (or perhaps a couple of men or women's) OPINION. It neither wins games or loses games and it has zero implications about the upcoming season. Sure, it's a feel good moment to read your team is ranked #1 - but again, it's meaningless except for the pursuing let down when you discover you're not #1.

In short, the Giants are good, perhaps very good....maybe even very, very good. But they have a tough schedule and nothing changes everything faster than injuries. That goes for all teams.

My prognosis of the upcoming season is meaningless, but if I had to put something to paper to keep my job I'd predict the Giants to win the division with a 10-6 record and go on to the Super Bowl where the Giants defeat the Steelers. And my guess is as good as anyone else. Heck, I watched a girl in first grade get every pick right for the week based entirely on the colors of the uniforms she liked.

Regardless - I'd rather be ranked low than high. It's a bit absurd that this guy has the Cowboy's (who lost their entire defensive backfield) as #2 and Filthydelphia #8 - both ahead of the Giants.


JBG, do you realize what you just did?  You criticized PFF!    PFF is the Holy Grail of the NFL! /sarcasm/

Bob In PA

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Re: 11th best in the NFC ????
« Reply #4 on: June 19, 2017, 12:27:47 PM »
PFF (and I ) find it tough to believe the Giants can win as many squeakers this year as they did last season.

But PFF fails to consider that the Giants might avoid close games by getting ahead early with long throws and then run the ball (and use quick passes) to maintain possession in the 2nd half.

So even if the defense does take a step back, they do have a chance to replicate last year's record (but it won't be easy to improve BOTH the number of early quick scoring plays AND the late-game running attack).

Bob

MightyGiants

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Re: 11th best in the NFC ????
« Reply #5 on: June 19, 2017, 12:31:35 PM »

JBG, do you realize what you just did?  You criticized PFF!    PFF is the Holy Grail of the NFL! /sarcasm/
:boooo: :boooo: :boooo: :boooo: :boooo: :boooo: :boooo:

There isn't a single person who (with the POSSIBLE exception of the PFF owners/employees) who has ever suggested that

 :boooo: :boooo: :boooo: :boooo: :boooo: :boooo: :boooo: :boooo: :boooo: :boooo: :boooo: :boooo: :boooo:


"THE 2007 and 2011 GIANTS WERE NEVER PERFECT, NOR MEANT TO BE.  THEY WERE FIGHTERS, SCRAPPERS, NOW THEY CAN BE CALLED SOMETHING ELSE....WORLD CHAMPIONS!"

MightyGiants

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Re: 11th best in the NFC ????
« Reply #6 on: June 19, 2017, 12:35:32 PM »
It's tough to argue with PFF.  Personally, I think the Giants could contend for the Super Bowl this year.  However, an injury here or there or a couple of players dropping off from last season could derail the season and put the team at 500.   

On paper though, this is a better team than the one they put on the field last year.

Plus I see a few key players that are poised for breakout seasons. 
"THE 2007 and 2011 GIANTS WERE NEVER PERFECT, NOR MEANT TO BE.  THEY WERE FIGHTERS, SCRAPPERS, NOW THEY CAN BE CALLED SOMETHING ELSE....WORLD CHAMPIONS!"

bamagiantfan

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Re: 11th best in the NFC ????
« Reply #7 on: June 19, 2017, 02:36:37 PM »
Let me just say I simply will not agree that every team in the NFC South is better than the Giants.  :boooo:
Go Giants!

Bob In PA

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Re: 11th best in the NFC ????
« Reply #8 on: June 19, 2017, 02:48:19 PM »
:boooo: :boooo: :boooo: :boooo: :boooo: :boooo: :boooo:

There isn't a single person who (with the POSSIBLE exception of the PFF owners/employees) who has ever suggested that

 :boooo: :boooo: :boooo: :boooo: :boooo: :boooo: :boooo: :boooo: :boooo: :boooo: :boooo: :boooo: :boooo:


Rich: I couldn't let this post go by without acknowledging that I fully understand the subtext.   =))

Jaime

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Re: 11th best in the NFC ????
« Reply #9 on: June 19, 2017, 04:11:47 PM »
We stink, we are terrible, let's go with that. :surrender:

Vette

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Re: 11th best in the NFC ????
« Reply #10 on: June 19, 2017, 04:55:08 PM »
I agree with some of their points and disagree with others. Eli had one of his best seasons in 2015. With a crappy Offensive line. He didn't take into account Engram or Shepard being in his second year. Perkins in his second year. The Safety depth, the TE Depth, the RB depth, the QB depth, The Defensive Line may be a bit weaker at DT but should get up to speed quickly, The DE position should be stronger in depth with some competition.

My biggest concerns are the OT positions and the Defense if they rest on their laurels and the maturity factor with OBJ. I have full confidence in Eli Manning with out any doubt. 
"There is a greater purpose...that purpose is team. Winning, losing, playing hard, playing well, doing it for each other, winning the right way, winning the right way is a very important thing to me... Championships are won by teams who love one another, who respect one another, and play for and support one another."
~ Coach Tom Coughlin

Dennis

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Re: 11th best in the NFC ????
« Reply #11 on: June 19, 2017, 05:10:09 PM »
Can we just play some games please before making assessments.   Bogus and meaningless preliminary assessments I might add. :boooo:

Jolly Blue Giant

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Re: 11th best in the NFC ????
« Reply #12 on: June 19, 2017, 06:09:30 PM »

JBG, do you realize what you just did?  You criticized PFF!    PFF is the Holy Grail of the NFL! /sarcasm/

Ha, ha...I simply skimmed the article. I didn't know this was produced by PFF, lol. If that's the case, it's even more worthless a prognostication. I understand they like to collect stats - oftentimes meaningless stats that serve no purpose but to look relevant enough to sell their collection of numbers to fans.

But puhleeze....predicting the future by looking at numbers from a previous year is simply stupid.

Uni

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Re: 11th best in the NFC ????
« Reply #13 on: June 19, 2017, 08:03:43 PM »
The rankings are based purely on predicted wins and not on talent. Personally, I see 10 wins from that schedule, 11 if we steal one or sweep a divisional rival.

BTW, PFF predicts the Falcons to go 12-4 and the rest of the division to go 9-7. While this may or may not be mathematically possible, it seems like pure fantasy.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk


Hadron

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Re: 11th best in the NFC ????
« Reply #14 on: June 20, 2017, 12:03:27 AM »
I see the Giants winning between 8-10 games. While I could quibble with with their exact spot, is it really that far off?

We also need to see which version of the offense (2015 v. 2016) is/was the fluke. While I thought that 2015 offense was overrated to a degree, the 2016 offense was a dumpster fire. The O-Line was bad. When the O-Line was playing at acceptable levels, Eli wasn't delivering the ball at a level many were accustomed to seeing. Non-OBJ skill positions were MIA. Just a bad overall year by the offense. It happens. 

We also need to see if the defense can replicate (or come close to) playing at the 2016 level in 2017.