Big Blue Huddle

CHATTER: GIANTS WILL TAKE A QB AT NO. 6 OR TRADE UP
There has been talk about this since Daniel Jones tore his ACL last season, and it was clear the New York Giants would have a top pick. Yes, the organization has done extensive work on all the top quarterbacks in the draft. However, I have not gotten the indication they'd pull the trigger on taking one at No. 6.

There are rumblings in league circles that if Drake Maye fell, he could intrigue them the most. Otherwise, they likely will take a different position, whether a receiver or an offensive lineman. There is a good chance the Giants will explore taking a quarterback in this draft, but it could be in the second round.

https://www.the33rdteam.com/2024-nfl-draft-fact-or-fiction-on-draft-trade-rumors/

Quote from: londonblue on Today at 12:19:13 PMFirst time round Wellman introduced elements of yoga and the non-martial arts (tai-chi specifically). I suspect his return will see shifts towards more flexibility, bodyweight, resistance and high intensity work to complement traditional lifting more in line with developing trends in other sports. It will be worth watching.

It appears that some of the strength training also focuses on joint stability.  In the olden days (when I learned about weight and strength training), it was all about isolating the muscle or muscle group you were working on.  The things I see, put the various joints in play, which should improve stability

Quote from: londonblue on Today at 12:02:11 PMA completely dispassionate assessment is Minnesota will win any bidding war to trade up. It might be to 3 but Denver are said to be prepared to sell the farm to move up. I do not see Schoen getting into a bidding war so I have us as most likely to go WR at 6 but more likely to trade down than up. We will find out in 6.5 days!

It's funny about Denver.  As an admittedly non-Denver fan, it would seem like the Broncos would be well served by sitting tight and drafting Bo Nix at 12.  He would seem to be the perfect QB for what Sean Payton likes to run.

The Tweet is a short video, and the link leads to pictures.  There seems to be more work on the grass (conditioning?) than I ever remember and the strength training is much different than my younger days at the gym.


https://x.com/Giants/status/1781352059096240595



https://www.giants.com/photos/giants-offseason-workout-program-underway-2024#644f4eee-af16-402d-8713-207fc51e8bcf

Quote from: Jclayton92 on Today at 11:20:43 AMThe only reason I am looking at Qb is because it could be 5-6 years before we could get a class that rivals this one. There are no elite Qbs in the pipeline in college right now. I mean the best 2 guys right now for next year are Sanders and Dart, right now the top 4 this year are better than those guys.

A team usually drafts one QB.  So I think it's more a function of how many teams need QBs vs the supply (which I don't think is all that favorable this year).

Teams have found quality QBs in draft classes that were considered weak or average.  Last year's QB class was average, at best, yet the Texans scored big by drafting CJ Stroud.  The 2017 QB class led by Mitch Trybisky was considered weak, but the Chiefs drafted an air-raid QB, Mahomes, and the rest is history.  The 2018 QB class was considered historically good yet only the Bills and Ravens came out winners in the draft a QB in round one sweepstakes.  The Browns, Jets, and Cards all came out as losers. 

Quote from: Jclayton92 on Today at 11:04:46 AMWhich Giants fans did they poll because everywhere I go the vocal majority want a fresh start at Qb and it's not close. Most seem to fear that a wr would just end up like every other receiving option we've had the past half decade.

Also they gave way to many options, should have just been wr, qb, or other.

Jess,

I can't speak for fans, but I will say in the Giants Twitterverse/Podcast world, there seems to be strong agreement that it's better to draft an elite WR than reach/trade for a QB.   They seem down on the whole, QB or bust, fans.

Even on our forum, while there are a few QB or bust fans among us, there seems to be a substantial portion who seem to either favor a WR or think it would be the Giants' best option under the circumstances.

https://x.com/art_stapleton/status/1781330786064478362

That's interesting, although we don't know what the price to move up will actually be.

Quote from: londonblue on Today at 10:09:46 AMWe will know soon. The Giants need better players. That definitely starts at QB but it applies to pretty much every area of the team. It is not a one year fix. The argument is really about the order things get addressed.

I am coming round to our likeliest option being a trade back to late round 1 (Buffalo and 49ers both reportedly keen to come up into WR range) to add a day 2 pick this year and a R1 2025 pick. It would let us tackle an extra need this year and give us ammunition to go for QB1 or 2 from next year's shallower pool.

This makes sense to me because I think we get outbid in trade up discussions to get QB 3 or 4 in this year's supposedly bumper crop but I do expect us to at least try.

Neil,

I don't dislike the trade down scenario, but I have a sneaking suspicion that isn't going to happen, based on something Schoen said at his pressure.  He talked about how this draft is less stressful because he is picking high up, compared to last year, when they were drafting about 2/3rds of the way down.  I would think Joe would still be more stressed (because he would be picking lower) if he intended on trading down this year.

Q. What is draft day like for you? Especially as the pick nears, what is that like?

JOE SCHOEN: A lot of our work and the preparation -- especially in the first round. Last year was a little bit more stressful because when you're picking further back in the draft. Where this year at 6, it makes it a little bit easier because you can say, okay, here's six names, here's how we like them, here's our different scenarios, and you can go from there.

The first round is pretty calm just because you've done all the work. No matter how it pans out, you've got your stack and how you like the players. Last year, again, there's a little bit more anxiety and uncertainty because to us last year the draft didn't really start until pick 15, and now you're starting to narrow down who's going to be there.

Where when you're picking this high, it's a little bit different. Pretty calm because all the work and the preparation that the staff, the coaches, all of us have have done leading up to the draft. Usually feel pretty good about our board, and as you go through it, the board talks to you, and a lot of the decisions have already been made.

Quote from: Philosophers on Today at 10:02:55 AMRich - I agree however it should change based on the quality of the team, how it is constructed and where it's glaring hole is and the depth of the talent in that year's draft to fill that hole and of course the current and future budget of the team and contracts expiring.

Teams that are built to win may look to trade up to get their guy that fills their glaring hole.  Teams in full rebuild need picks.  I think the Giants are more of the latter in 2024.

That is a fair and excellent point.  The state of a team's roster may push one on the spectrum in terms of seeking stars or filling holes

Joe Schoen talked about a walk-away price (and based on previous actions, I think he firmly believes in this approach). So, if the rumor is true, will Schoen try to outbid the Vikings?


https://x.com/art_stapleton/status/1781316019056738462

I have a friend (a former boss/mentor) who is really into finance and investing.  A few years back, he was telling me about Woods and suggested I look into her.  This was back when she was considered a legend.  When I did my due diligence, I got a sense that her reputation (which led to huge inflows into her ETFs as well as copycat investing) seemed to be driving her choices to seeming success.  In other words, the sheer number of shares she would purchase (plus the news that she was making the purchase) would push the stock in question higher.   I didn't see that as a sustainable model and I was glad I passed on investing in her ETF (which fell to earth after my decision)

Quote from: Philosophers on Today at 09:30:00 AMYou need better top end talent as well as better depth to be among the best teams.  Simple as that.  Football is a sport in which major injuries will occur and how well your second and third string players play will often be a difference.  That said, your best guys need to beat the other team's best guys consistently as well.

Not sure how anyone can see this as one versus the other.

Joe,

I think one way to see which way you lean is which type of draft trade you generally prefer.

1)  Trade up to grab to grab a better prospect

2)  Trade down to get more picks

Quote from: Jclayton92 on Today at 09:34:48 AMWell he isn't making that mistake now because he already did that going into 2023.

While I suspect you are referring mostly to Schoen signing Daniel Jones to a contract, there were plenty of other "win now" moves that Schoen made last season. 

Such as:

Trading a low third-round pick for TE Darren Waller

Trading a 2024 7th rounder for LB/S Isaiah Simmons

Swapping low 2025 round picks for Boogie Basham

One might argue retaining Barkley on the franchise tag was a win-now move.

You could also look to Schoen not trading away Barkley and McKinney midseason (there was still hope at 1925 Giants Way, that the team could come back) and instead allowing both to walk away with no direct compensation.

Quote from: Painter on Today at 09:30:14 AMContent is content and little more than that. Still, it's not hard to see a basis for Rich Eisen's rather widely shared view nor is Joe Schoen's stance in any way unreasonable.

If there is to be a right or wrong, a win or lose in such matter, that should become clear 6 days from now if the Giants have an opportunity to take a QB at 6 and choose otherwise. And in such event, we can be sure that certain parties right here will make clear their BM&W displeasure.

Cheers!

For the record, I am good either way.  If the Giants take a QB I will be fine (I will be less fine if they give up draft assets to trade up, but I am not going to be upset) and I will be fine if the Giants don't draft a QB and ride with Jones for another season and acquire an elite WR prospect.

The harsh reality is that my opinions of any of the Giants' decisions will be based on far less information and knowledge of facts than Schoen and Daboll will have in making their choices.  It would be sort of arrogant of me to think I will know better with less intel.  I appreciate that it's quite possible that the decision Schoen and Daboll make could prove to be incorrect, but I am not in a position to second-guess it without more information (like how things play out over time).