Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: EDjohnst1981 on April 18, 2024, 02:10:05 PMI really want them to get a game changer. There should be a WR there and potentially a QB.

Pull the trigger, I say.

If the Giants are interested in a QB, and I believe they are, but their top 4 are all gone after the Vikings jump them (as I believe they will) then I could see them being interested in trading down with a team like the Bills so they can still draft their QB (either Penix/Nix) and also collect more capital including I would imagine at least 1 more first round pick given how far back they'd be moving down.

The Bills NEED to get Josh Allen an elite WR now that Diggs is gone.  They'd likely go above and beyond to get to the Giants spot if the Giants were interested in moving that far back. The only question would be if the Giants are willing to trade back and if so that far back. 

Quote from: MightyGiants on April 18, 2024, 01:42:30 PMThe fun thing about that point is it's a no-lose situation for those claiming the Giants have buyer's remorse.  After all, the inverse won't prove them wrong.  They can clam they were right in either outcome since we can't preclude a lack of drafting a QB is proof of a lack of interest in drafting a QB.

I think if they don't take a QB, and one is available, it is an indication the team is fine with Jones.  I can't fathom that being the case.  Either half of that equation.  But that would indeed prove they don't have any buyer's remorse.  If they do draft a QB I think unequivocally it proves that they do and I'm not sure an argument can be made otherwise.

Whether the Giants want to say he played in 3 games in miserable circumstances or not his own play when he had plays to be made was awful.  Nobody will publicly smear the guy.  1) he seems like a perfectly nice and hard working player that genuinely wishes he could be better than he is.  2) he's very likely to be starting next season no matter what happens.  So they will continue to jump through every hoop they can to make excuses for what anybody that was paying attention could clearly see which is: Jones ain't it.  Might turn into a nice backup that floats from team to team for a few years but if he's your #1 guy you're not going anywhere. 

Yes that 2nd half against Arizona was other-wordly.  But then he has the rest of the season that he had and the whole thing is wasted.  The biggest problem with Jones is precisely the fact that he can have a half like that!  If he was a disaster all the time like Zach Wilson we could all point to him and say I don't know much but I know that guy sucks and he shows us just how much he sucks every time he takes a snap.  Jones is just not terrible enough to win 6-8 games a year but likely not more than that which leave the Giants in this QB hell.

Quote from: MightyGiants on April 18, 2024, 12:57:25 PMhttps://x.com/TalkinGiants/status/1780999156137361800


https://x.com/TheGiantsWire/status/1780997622553047304

Given there's a better than average chance Jones is starting for his team next year due to a lack of other options.... he can't exactly say "yea, that was a dumb decision to sign him but we're stuck with him now without any options to get away"

If they draft a QB it'll be a pretty clear indication of buyers remorse.  Just the fact that he has already said they're looking at all the QBs is a pretty clear indication of it.  Nobody expected Jones to regress as much as he did in year 2 in the system.  But he did.  And now they need to get away from him as quickly as possible which means shortly after the 2024 season ends.

Quote from: TONKA56 on April 17, 2024, 12:56:43 PMI'm torn between Maye and JJ. I like Maye because he's bigger and more traditional but I think JJ has the greater football IQ, is more pro-ready, and has demonstrated better big game credentials. I lean JJ but all of these quarterbacks have big caution signs. 

With Nabers I fear a replay of the OBJ situation where a team starving for leadership is suddenly taken over by a talented diva wide receiver.

They should be so lucky as to get OBJ 2.0.

I don't make a mock draft myself but if I did that top 5 is pretty how I would draw it up.  I'm pretty sure the Vikings are going to move up ahead of the Giants to take JJ.  The only variable is do they move up to 4 or 5 to do it.  Wherever they don't end up is where Marvin Harrison goes.  Then the Giants get their pick of Rome or Nabers at 6 unless somebody more desperate for a WR than them decides to make them an offer they can't refuse to move up (Hello, Buffalo!)

They are going to take a WR or they are going to trade the pick.  I can't fathom a scenario where one of those two things doesn't happen.  If QB4 is still there I could even see the Giants making a call about a trade in an attempt to prevent a team like the Vikings from swooping in ahead of them. In fact, they probably should do that if they really like whoever QB4 ends up being.

Quote from: coggs on April 16, 2024, 08:21:41 AMThey didn't screw it up!

One thing I think the NHL gets wrong is the tie-breaker.  If at the end of the regular season, 2 teams are tied and 1 will make the play-offs and one is out, they should play a game for the last spot.  Let the team holding the "tie-breaker" host the game.  If they are tied for seeding where both are in, or they are tied for lottery placement then use the tie-breaker.  If Detroit and Washington both win tonight, they should be playing a game in Washington on Thursday or Friday for the last spot.

Love that idea.  And the NHL gives teams a couple days off before the playoffs start anyway so that would then put the 8 seed at a bit of a disadvantage not having that extra day off but that's what you get for not winning the spot outright. I actually wouldn't mind it if they adopted an NBA style plan where the 8th and 9th seeds always play a play in game regardless of record. 

Quote from: bamagiantfan on April 14, 2024, 08:27:25 AMDespite the #6 pick, the Giants are not picking where they can historically get a top QB. They are picking in a spot where you can historically get the Best CB, Best Edge rusher/DE, or Best DT. This year you can add Best OT to that list, which is rare. The best one typically goes with one of the top 5 picks. Sixth overall is a bit high to look at other positions, but Best TE and Best WR in the draft are also an option this year.

I just don't like the idea of using the #6 overall pick on the 4th or 5th best QB in the draft. If they take a QB at #6, that is almost certainly what they will be doing.

As for the later Rounds, there is a 2nd round or later WR Pro-Bowler in almost EVERY draft. 

Generally I would agree with this but when you look at this draft vs next year's draft the 4th best QB in this draft might be better than the best QB next year.  So if they don't take one now, and don't end up with the #1 or #2 pick next year (which means a historically awful season) then they may not be in position to take a new QB for a long time. 

Jones, while awful, is juuuuuuust good enough to keep you out of the top 1 or 2 picks in the draft.  He's the worst kind of terrible you can be.  If you're gonna be bad be exceptionally bad so your team can replace you.  He is tantalizingly awful because he can flash some good moments surrounded by terrible ones and enough of those good moments gets you to 6-8 wins and out of the QB lottery.  It's QB hell and the Giants are right smack in the thick of it.

I think if the Giants don't have a QB available at 6 they would make that trade in half a second.  I'd guess that with their later 1st rounder they target their preference of Penix/Nix and then have a bunch of other stuff to play with after that.  If they were not to make the deal they would likely have to trade up in Round 2 if they wanted to get Nix/Penix and that would mean even less picks for them.  The only way I would see them not doing that deal is if they really love a QB that's still available at 6 and since it seems like the only one that might still be there is Maye, I think (hope) they'd take the deal.

Don't see the Giants paying that price but I could see the Vikings doing it.  They now have 2 this year alone and I imagine would have no problems throwing in next year's too.  And to be honest they probably should do it.  That is a solid team minus the QB.

I'd like to think that with the Giants picking 6 they wouldn't have to pay that much.  Since it's entirely possible the Cardinals would still get whoever they were planning on picking at 4 if they move to 6.  So I don't think I would completely rule the giants out of moving into that spot, but certainly not if it's going to cost them 3 first round picks.

Quote from: MightyGiants on April 09, 2024, 03:53:56 PMI will say this: The Giants gave away a valuable (in terms of trading up if they wanted a quarterback) high second-round pick in the Burns trade.  I have to think, at the very least, that precludes the Giants from trading up for a QB, and perhaps tips Schoen's overall draft intentions (that he is drafting a WR unless perhaps the right QB falls to him).

I don't think he ever seriously considered trading up for a QB because the top 3 teams all need QBs and are not going to trade down.  And if they are going to move up to 4 or 5 they probably don't need the extra 2nd rounder to do it. 

So I think he probably looked at it like the 2nd round pick might be great, he might be good, or he might be bad...but I KNOW Burns is great.  So let me just go get that guy. Obviously a contract came along with the pick which can't be ignored but if Burns plays to the level he has, particularly with Dexter/Thibs on that line with him, he'll be worth every penny. And if he doesn't...well then that's on Schoen and he'll have to eat it.

Quote from: MightyGiants on April 09, 2024, 10:50:36 AMI see this is from Albert Breer.  I just listened to Breer on a podcast yesterday.  Breer said he believes the Giants are not going to draft a quarterback because they are in win-now mode (while continuing to build).  Breer says the Giants are looking to win in 2024, not 2025 (while giving a pass to 2024).  Breer said he knows the Giants know they have weaknesses but that they are convinced they can win while building.

I very much hope he's wrong.  At least about them believing they can win while rebuilding.  Because they can't.  Nobody can.  Unless you have Mahomes or somebody on that level at QB.  They have Daniel Jones.  So no.  They can't.  If they don't want to take the 4th best QB because the 2nd best WR is a better prospect in their eyes then cool.  No issues.  If they have a QB and WR graded equally and go WR because they think they can win with this slop at QB again next year then they might be almost as delusional as Gettleman.  Almost.

I see the same sort of things in Maye.  He's the only one of the top 4 QBs that I would legitimately be bummed about if the Giants took at 6.  I wouldn't advise taking JJ at 6 but if they did I'd be excited to see what he could do.  If they take Maye there wouldn't be any excitement.  Just disappointment.  Perhaps the most disappoint I've had on draft day since... well since they took Daniel Jones.

I would be pretty disappointed if they didn't get one in the first 2 rounds.  As much as Penix/Nix/Maye are in a tier below the top of this draft, if they were coming out next year they might very well be  the big 3 of that one. 

And I expect the Giants will be good enough, at least on defense, to not be picking in the top 5 again next season.  Meaning if they don't get one right now they may not have a chance to get one for a while.  And I just can't with Jones any more.  So I really hope they do take one, even if it ends up being from the Penix/Nix/Rattler group in Round 2.

Quote from: MightyGiants on April 03, 2024, 01:23:52 PMI appreciate that I am in a small minority because I was not a fan of the Brian Burns trade.   I appreciate that, in a vacuum, the trade looks pretty good for the Giants.  However, the trade isn't in a vacuum and has to be evaluated based on the conditions of the current Giants team.

I think the Giants trade would have been great if I believed this season was the start of the Giants Super Bowl run.   However, I believe the Giants are still in the building/rebuilding phase.  In that phase, you acquire more picks and try to save cap space rather than give away picks and pick up expensive contracts.

So, from my vantage point, I could see the theory put forth possibly being valid.

With competent QB play, and that's a huge caveat I know, I think the Giants are closer to a playoff team than they are to the top 5.  So if they can get Jones to just not be truly terrible or draft a rookie that provides even average play at QB, I think the Giants are starting to open their window.  If they don't draft a QB and they let Jones continue to stink it up for another 3 years then absolutely this trade is stupid.  I just don't think they plan on doing that.

Well...that sucks for the Bills. They are gonna be pretty desperate for a WR though, and Schoen I assume knows a few people running around that building, so if the Giants are looking to trade down they could get quite a haul including future 1st round pick or picks.

Unlikely the Giants would go that far back in the 1st round obviously, however, if they don't think there's much of a difference between QB4 (whether it's McCarthy or Maye) and guys like Penix/Nix they could very likely end up with Penix/Nix at #28 and get a bunch of other stuff from the Bills in the process.