Big Blue Huddle

This is great!  Obviously highly unlikely but I like the options given here because this really makes you think.  Where the Giants are positioned if they don't trade that decision is likely going to be made for them and it's probably going to be a WR.  Whichever one they prefer. Putting these options on there makes you draw a line in the sand not just WR vs QB but which one. 

And I voted McCarthy.  It really gave me pause looking at those WRs and knowing just how hard it is to get a guy like that. It's why the Lions backed up the brink truck to Amon Ra St-Brown's house today. I certainly will not be disappointed with either one of those WRs. 

But ultimately for me I wondered if they don't take a QB now when will they?  Jones is bad but he's not Zach Wilson bad where they will be right back in the top 5 if he plays most of the season.  They'll likely be in the 8-12 range.  Where it would cost too much to move up and get a QB.  So then what?  Jones again not just this season but the one after?  So we can do that same dance again at that time?  Or wait for him to get hurt and hope that it happens early enough in the season so that they don't win any games with him before he goes down? That doesn't seem appealing to me.  So I say if no trades and those options are there I go QB and I like McCarthy over Maye by a bit of a margin. 

Quote from: T200 on Today at 11:01:56 AMI get what you're saying but that's not how things work, or should. Every organization has a hierarchy. There are ramifications and repercussions for taking those actions (leaving or getting fired). He currently has 1 of 32 positions and all of the employers who hire for those positions talk.

In a similar way, you're suggesting he go partial Wink. That would be a bad move. He needs to stay true to himself and do his job as best as he can despite the interference. Doing otherwise would be career suicide.

I'm saying he was hired to do a job and if the ownership doesn't trust him to do it they shouldn't have hired him in the first place.  Ultimately this will end up sticking to him good or bad.  If they run Jones out there again and again he's gonna have a hard time getting another one of those 32 jobs after he's inevitably fired.

He can't get fired and THEN point the finger at an idiot owner that wouldn't let him do his job.   That's sour grapes.  If he actually is being hindered he should say so now, leave, scream to anybody that will listen how none of this was his fault, and when 5 other GM's get fired next season he'll be in the running for some of those jobs.

I don't know if Mara actually is getting in the way or not.  It's all rumors and such even if they are believable rumors.  But I do know if somebody can't properly do his job because his boss won't let him then there's no reason for him to have that job anymore.  Whether he's fired or quits he's in a got to go situation. 

I can absolutely see a scenario where Mara and Co. are wondering why the hell did we pay Jones all that money last season when now we are so done with him we have to give up other picks in order to replace him.  In a vacuum that would be a fair question to ask.

But much like a lot of the fan base, Mara I assume was also tantalized by the playoff appearance/victory and was not going to be signing off on dumping Jones at that point.  THAT also would have been a hard sell even if it's exactly the right thing they should have done.

So when Mara asks well wait a minute why do we need to do all of this to get a QB now when we just paid Jones, Schoen needs to be able to say to him: "I would have done it last year but you wanted to try one more time with Jones.  We tried.  It failed. He failed.  Now you HAVE to let me do things my way."  If he can't say that to Mara he should leave the job, if he can say that to Mara and gets ignored...he should leave the job or get fired from it. 

We cannot have ownership getting in the way of things any more.  It's Mara's team, he can do what he wants with it, but if what he wants is to win he needs to stay the hell out of the way.

I actually like Penix a lot when just looking at the play on the field and would be totally fine with him as a top 10 pick if not for the injuries.  But you just can't ignore that no matter how much you'd like to.  He's one ACL tear away from having his career ended before it really even starts. 

It's incredibly risky to take a guy like that so early in the draft when they could presumably get a bonafide stud at WR instead.  A WR without those injury concerns.  If they do love Penix I imagine they could move down in the draft given how good those WRs are and still get him later while also acquiring another high pick or two in the process. 

I don't think the Giants would seriously take Penix at 6.  That seems wildly unreasonable to me.  But the part about them being desperate to come away with one of the QBs doesn't seem unreasonable at all.  I just don't know if they'll be able to do it.

For what it's worth, again based strictly on the play on the field and nothing else, I like Penix a lot more than Maye. Maye just has all his original ACLs.

Quote from: MightyGiants on April 23, 2024, 09:26:08 AMFrom everything I hear, Daniels is the favorite, but you never know

Daniels was the HEAVY betting favorite to go #2 until very recently when reports started coming out that he wants no part of Washington.  And now it's almost a pick em with Maye so who knows. 

If he's able to force Washington to not take him and drop to 3 that might be in range for the Giants to make a move for him.  Which I think they would at least try to do.  New England might just take him themselves and never look back of course but that least forces the Giants to make a phone call.  I don't think they would make that call for Maye or JJ.  And all of this, of course, is based on my own hunches and no actual factual reporting.

I really really wish he hadn't torn his ACL twice. I'd like him so much more if that weren't the case. But it is. And one more tear could mean the end of his career. So you just can't risk a top 10 pick on him. Now if they take his buddy Rome first (or Nabers) and Penix is sitting there in round 2...things get interesting.

I think want and ability to do so are two different things. Had they not won 3 meaningless games with Devito drafting a QB would be all but a certainty. Everybody should be ready to move on by now. But if they have to trade multiple picks to do it and for the 4th QB off the board at that.. the the price is too steep for me.

Quote from: EDjohnst1981 on April 18, 2024, 02:10:05 PMI really want them to get a game changer. There should be a WR there and potentially a QB.

Pull the trigger, I say.

If the Giants are interested in a QB, and I believe they are, but their top 4 are all gone after the Vikings jump them (as I believe they will) then I could see them being interested in trading down with a team like the Bills so they can still draft their QB (either Penix/Nix) and also collect more capital including I would imagine at least 1 more first round pick given how far back they'd be moving down.

The Bills NEED to get Josh Allen an elite WR now that Diggs is gone.  They'd likely go above and beyond to get to the Giants spot if the Giants were interested in moving that far back. The only question would be if the Giants are willing to trade back and if so that far back. 

Quote from: MightyGiants on April 18, 2024, 01:42:30 PMThe fun thing about that point is it's a no-lose situation for those claiming the Giants have buyer's remorse.  After all, the inverse won't prove them wrong.  They can clam they were right in either outcome since we can't preclude a lack of drafting a QB is proof of a lack of interest in drafting a QB.

I think if they don't take a QB, and one is available, it is an indication the team is fine with Jones.  I can't fathom that being the case.  Either half of that equation.  But that would indeed prove they don't have any buyer's remorse.  If they do draft a QB I think unequivocally it proves that they do and I'm not sure an argument can be made otherwise.

Whether the Giants want to say he played in 3 games in miserable circumstances or not his own play when he had plays to be made was awful.  Nobody will publicly smear the guy.  1) he seems like a perfectly nice and hard working player that genuinely wishes he could be better than he is.  2) he's very likely to be starting next season no matter what happens.  So they will continue to jump through every hoop they can to make excuses for what anybody that was paying attention could clearly see which is: Jones ain't it.  Might turn into a nice backup that floats from team to team for a few years but if he's your #1 guy you're not going anywhere. 

Yes that 2nd half against Arizona was other-wordly.  But then he has the rest of the season that he had and the whole thing is wasted.  The biggest problem with Jones is precisely the fact that he can have a half like that!  If he was a disaster all the time like Zach Wilson we could all point to him and say I don't know much but I know that guy sucks and he shows us just how much he sucks every time he takes a snap.  Jones is just not terrible enough to win 6-8 games a year but likely not more than that which leave the Giants in this QB hell.

Quote from: MightyGiants on April 18, 2024, 12:57:25 PMhttps://x.com/TalkinGiants/status/1780999156137361800


https://x.com/TheGiantsWire/status/1780997622553047304

Given there's a better than average chance Jones is starting for his team next year due to a lack of other options.... he can't exactly say "yea, that was a dumb decision to sign him but we're stuck with him now without any options to get away"

If they draft a QB it'll be a pretty clear indication of buyers remorse.  Just the fact that he has already said they're looking at all the QBs is a pretty clear indication of it.  Nobody expected Jones to regress as much as he did in year 2 in the system.  But he did.  And now they need to get away from him as quickly as possible which means shortly after the 2024 season ends.

Quote from: TONKA56 on April 17, 2024, 12:56:43 PMI'm torn between Maye and JJ. I like Maye because he's bigger and more traditional but I think JJ has the greater football IQ, is more pro-ready, and has demonstrated better big game credentials. I lean JJ but all of these quarterbacks have big caution signs. 

With Nabers I fear a replay of the OBJ situation where a team starving for leadership is suddenly taken over by a talented diva wide receiver.

They should be so lucky as to get OBJ 2.0.

I don't make a mock draft myself but if I did that top 5 is pretty how I would draw it up.  I'm pretty sure the Vikings are going to move up ahead of the Giants to take JJ.  The only variable is do they move up to 4 or 5 to do it.  Wherever they don't end up is where Marvin Harrison goes.  Then the Giants get their pick of Rome or Nabers at 6 unless somebody more desperate for a WR than them decides to make them an offer they can't refuse to move up (Hello, Buffalo!)

They are going to take a WR or they are going to trade the pick.  I can't fathom a scenario where one of those two things doesn't happen.  If QB4 is still there I could even see the Giants making a call about a trade in an attempt to prevent a team like the Vikings from swooping in ahead of them. In fact, they probably should do that if they really like whoever QB4 ends up being.

Quote from: coggs on April 16, 2024, 08:21:41 AMThey didn't screw it up!

One thing I think the NHL gets wrong is the tie-breaker.  If at the end of the regular season, 2 teams are tied and 1 will make the play-offs and one is out, they should play a game for the last spot.  Let the team holding the "tie-breaker" host the game.  If they are tied for seeding where both are in, or they are tied for lottery placement then use the tie-breaker.  If Detroit and Washington both win tonight, they should be playing a game in Washington on Thursday or Friday for the last spot.

Love that idea.  And the NHL gives teams a couple days off before the playoffs start anyway so that would then put the 8 seed at a bit of a disadvantage not having that extra day off but that's what you get for not winning the spot outright. I actually wouldn't mind it if they adopted an NBA style plan where the 8th and 9th seeds always play a play in game regardless of record. 

Quote from: bamagiantfan on April 14, 2024, 08:27:25 AMDespite the #6 pick, the Giants are not picking where they can historically get a top QB. They are picking in a spot where you can historically get the Best CB, Best Edge rusher/DE, or Best DT. This year you can add Best OT to that list, which is rare. The best one typically goes with one of the top 5 picks. Sixth overall is a bit high to look at other positions, but Best TE and Best WR in the draft are also an option this year.

I just don't like the idea of using the #6 overall pick on the 4th or 5th best QB in the draft. If they take a QB at #6, that is almost certainly what they will be doing.

As for the later Rounds, there is a 2nd round or later WR Pro-Bowler in almost EVERY draft. 

Generally I would agree with this but when you look at this draft vs next year's draft the 4th best QB in this draft might be better than the best QB next year.  So if they don't take one now, and don't end up with the #1 or #2 pick next year (which means a historically awful season) then they may not be in position to take a new QB for a long time. 

Jones, while awful, is juuuuuuust good enough to keep you out of the top 1 or 2 picks in the draft.  He's the worst kind of terrible you can be.  If you're gonna be bad be exceptionally bad so your team can replace you.  He is tantalizingly awful because he can flash some good moments surrounded by terrible ones and enough of those good moments gets you to 6-8 wins and out of the QB lottery.  It's QB hell and the Giants are right smack in the thick of it.

I think if the Giants don't have a QB available at 6 they would make that trade in half a second.  I'd guess that with their later 1st rounder they target their preference of Penix/Nix and then have a bunch of other stuff to play with after that.  If they were not to make the deal they would likely have to trade up in Round 2 if they wanted to get Nix/Penix and that would mean even less picks for them.  The only way I would see them not doing that deal is if they really love a QB that's still available at 6 and since it seems like the only one that might still be there is Maye, I think (hope) they'd take the deal.