Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: TONKA56 on Today at 03:50:54 PMBut is he a bad route runner or can he just not catch? I never liked the way he was used as a receiver. Way too many third downs where he was expected to catch a dump off and then run over a guy or make a guy miss, often when everyone in North America knew he was getting the ball.

I think the best way to describe it is that Barkley fights the ball rather than catching it (he wasn't like that in his early years in the league).  Because he is fighting it rather than catching it, his YAC is negatively impacted.

having read the transcript, I don't think the Giants are trading down. I think his comments were an effort to create a smoke screen because there was too much talk of him trading up

Q. You said you are not one or two players away in this year's draft so you could go either way, how does that impact your decision on whether you move up and what you're willing to part with to move up?

JOE SCHOEN: I haven't said we're going to move up or we will or we won't. It impacts do we stay — surprisingly at 6, we've gotten a lot of calls from people behind us. I didn't think I'd have as much activity at 6 from people behind me as we've gotten. So those are options too as we look at, if we go back, how far back do we want to go?

Then the stack I was just talking about, now there's 10 names instead of 6 or 15 names instead of — where does it make sense for us to move back, and what else can we get with that? We're taking all of that. Whether we go up, back, stay, all that's being talked about right now as we're going through it.


PLUS, does this sound like a man who plans on trading down?


Q. What is draft day like for you? Especially as the pick nears, what is that like?

JOE SCHOEN: A lot of our work and the preparation — especially in the first round. Last year was a little bit more stressful because when you're picking further back in the draft. Where this year at 6, it makes it a little bit easier because you can say, okay, here's six names, here's how we like them, here's our different scenarios, and you can go from there.

The first round is pretty calm just because you've done all the work. No matter how it pans out, you've got your stack and how you like the players. Last year, again, there's a little bit more anxiety and uncertainty because to us last year the draft didn't really start until pick 15, and now you're starting to narrow down who's going to be there.

Where when you're picking this high, it's a little bit different. Pretty calm because all the work and the preparation that the staff, the coaches, all of us have have done leading up to the draft. Usually feel pretty good about our board, and as you go through it, the board talks to you, and a lot of the decisions have already been made.

Quote from: TONKA56 on Today at 03:37:12 PMDo you really think he was "terrible?"

I think so. It's not just me, PFF gave Barkley a 58.3 receiving grade for 2022, which is pretty bad when you consider they start out with a 60.0

Quote from: EDjohnst1981 on Today at 03:32:26 PMOut of interest, what was Barkley's stats and productions through the first 8 weeks of '22.

Whilst he doesn't fit into your 3 P's, I suspect he was pretty darn good.

The problem with Barkley is he ran well, but he was terrible as a receiver

Quote from: Jolly Blue Giant on Today at 02:15:47 PMIf you think the naysayers on DJ are old and tiresome, wait until a year down the road and a QB like Bo Nix or Pennix, or Pratt turns out to be the second coming of Herbert...or worse, we pass on JJ and he becomes a star like Tom Brady. I can't imagine this board if DJ struggles and one of the QBs we passed on jettisons into a superstar. It won't be fun for the next decade with all the "We could have had Nix (or some other QB who grows hair on his chest and becomes a stud franchise QB). Even worse, we trade DJ, draft JJ, and DJ turns into the second coming of Brady with a good team around him and JJ sucks. Oh what fun that will be 

Ahhh...the good old, "time will tell" must be adhered to here. Draft can't get here soon enough

Ric,

How many of the Jones critics were also the same people who were advocating for the Giants to draft Sam Darnold?

Quote from: Jclayton92 on Today at 02:14:27 PMIt shouldn't though because as much as people try to act like Jones was magnificent in 2022, he wasn't the 3200 yards and 15 tds show that. So if he duplicates 2022 then in my eyes it's even more obvious we need a change. A 6th year Qb that can't throw for 4,000 yards when 4th rd picks come into this league every year and do it with less talent should be alarming.

Jones outplayed the 3 Ps of support, which is really what one expects a franchise QB to do.  Coaching was adequate to above average, but protection was below average, and playmakers (in terms of receivers) were non-existent.  Despite that, in terms of the quality stats, Jones was top 10 to 12, in that range.

Quote from: EDjohnst1981 on Today at 02:10:05 PMI really want them to get a game changer. There should be a WR there and potentially a QB.

Pull the trigger, I say.

That's the thing about trading down.  Eventually, you need to get some blue-chip players on your team.  If you are constantly trading down to create quantity, it's more difficult for you to add those coveted and badly-needed blue chippers

Quote from: Bob In PA on Today at 02:05:52 PMThose other teams believe what I believe... pick six is good slot to be in this year. Bob

Can't argue with you point, clearly they do or they wouldn't be reaching out to the Giants

Quote from: T200 on Today at 01:48:52 PMTrue... they may try to make a move for the guy they want and it doesn't work out. Initial point still holds true: they have buyer's remorse.

Until Jones is a former Giant, he will continue to bite Schoen and Daboll in the tush. Call it Gettleman's Giant Gift.

If Jones plays in 2024 and plays well, are we still calling it "Gettleman's Giant Gift"   

Quote from: T200 on Today at 01:31:58 PMWords < Actions

Giants pick RD 1 QB = Buyer's Remorse

The fun thing about that point is it's a no-lose situation for those claiming the Giants have buyer's remorse.  After all, the inverse won't prove them wrong.  They can clam they were right in either outcome since we can't preclude a lack of drafting a QB is proof of a lack of interest in drafting a QB.

Quote from: Gmo11 on Today at 01:35:16 PMGiven there's a better than average chance Jones is starting for his team next year due to a lack of other options.... he can't exactly say "yea, that was a dumb decision to sign him but we're stuck with him now without any options to get away"

If they draft a QB it'll be a pretty clear indication of buyers remorse.  Just the fact that he has already said they're looking at all the QBs is a pretty clear indication of it.  Nobody expected Jones to regress as much as he did in year 2 in the system.  But he did.  And now they need to get away from him as quickly as possible which means shortly after the 2024 season ends.

The part in bold is where fans differ from what is being reported in terms of how the Giants are thinking.  The Giants see Jones having played only 3 full games under the worst possible conditions and are unlikely to significantly change their opinion on Jones, while the fans who previously down on Jones declare those same 3 full games as proof they were right about all their criticism of Jones.  Don't forget there was also DJ's record-setting performance in the second half of the Cards game

Obviously, the injury issues are a different matter, and to that end, the Giants have done an excellent job muddying the water.   Jones claimed his neck injury last season was just a routine stinger.  Was Jones being completely honest, or was he downplaying his medical issues to help the Giants keep their cards close to the vest?

Quote from: EDjohnst1981 on Today at 01:27:43 PMFurthermore, it's smoke and mirrors season. Why show your hand 7 days before the draft.

But people can swallow up whatever they want. Nothing will change opinions until either a) they draft a QB or b) make a decision next year.

One thing, so far, is that, unlike Gettleman, we haven't witnessed Joe Schoen outright lie.  Schoen tends to speak in a manner that makes him difficult to pin down (most of the time) rather than using Gettleman's ham-handed, just lie-to-the-people approach.

Quote from: londonblue on Today at 01:26:02 PMActions speak louder than words. In free agency we added a guy who can start a few if needed but is not the threat that eg Russell Wilson would be. In a week we will see if we draft a QB R1. If so, DJ is on the way out. If not, DJ is the projected starter even if we take a QB day 2 or 3. We will rehash the same old arguments on here come what may'

Neil,

I think if the Giants do go QB in round one, it will be 2022 all over again.  The Giants will have Jones on yet another one year prove it situation.

Quote from: AZGiantFan on Today at 01:22:17 PMDoes that mean that from the Giants' perspective next year's draft will be loaded?

Possibly, but it will depend again on how many draftable players opt to stay in school.  NIL has really encouraged players to take their time going to the NFL

https://x.com/PFF_Sam/status/1780663074313154977