Big Blue Huddle

Schoen wasn't allowed to trade Barkley as Mara wanted to keep him.

https://www.nydailynews.com/2024/03/27/john-mara-giants-didnt-trade-saquon-barkley-eagles/#:~:text=John%20Mara%20said%20the%20Giants,hoping%20to%20re%2Dsign%20him.

Surprised they didn't move McKinney given that they had no plans on keeping him. Of course, if the offers were subpar, then that's probably why.

Quote from: Brooklyn Dave on April 03, 2024, 01:24:29 AMI am not sure what that means . Thanks

Positional values play a big part of the analysis.

Ex: Bryce Young's total contract value is about $41.2 million. Daniel Jones is making about $40 million/year. That's why you hear them talk about the importance of a team winning while the QB is on his rookie contract.

Travis Kelce makes about $14 million/year. A first round TE will make between $3m (end of round 1) and $9m (top of round 1) annually.

The first pick in the 2024 NFL Draft, currently owned by the Chicago Bears, has a set payday of just over $38.5 million over his first four seasons in the NFL. The final pick of the first round, currently held by the Kansas City Chiefs at No. 32 overall, is set to make $12.1M over the same time frame.

Quote from: Jolly Blue Giant on April 02, 2024, 05:35:43 PMThere is no comparison. Engram never completely dominated every team he faced the way Bowers did, not to mention EE could not catch like Bowers (or even close) or run routes like Bowers. Two completely different players. EE was never mentioned in the top 5 or 6 players in the draft, because he wasn't a "game changer"...Bowers is

No, he didn't. However, if you go back and read some of his scouting reports, there's certain "buzzwords" that pop up in both scouting reports.

Strengths
Good explosion over the first 5 yards of his route. Plus athletic ability with easy-opening hips. Nimble feet with quick, controlled strides into and out of his breaks. Accelerates out of his breaks to uncover from defenders for quarterback. Will have to be guarded by defensive backs. Opens quickly to find the ball. Successful working all three levels at Ole Miss. Has true vertical speed to attack the seams. Competitive, athletic runner after the catch. Springy leaper. Jumped out of the gym to snare a touchdown over the head of a Georgia defender. Able to pluck balls low, high, and behind him.

Makes up for his lack of size with athletic ability and plus speed for the position. Engram has experience as a safety blanket for Ole Miss QB Chad Kelly and can work all three levels of the field. He will appeal strictly to teams looking for a move tight end who can be deployed as a chess piece in a matchup-based passing attack.


Keep in mind, I said vibes, not a carbon copy of Bowers.

Quote from: Jolly Blue Giant on April 02, 2024, 01:54:04 PMGood info...thanks for posting. After going through a dozen of them, I still find Bowers intriguing as a possible pick at 6

"Bowers is one of the best prospects in the draft. He has high-level playmaking ability and the versatility to line up in multiple locations within the formation, including being featured as a motion receiver. Bowers is an offensive weapon more than a traditional tight end, with the open field balance, strength, elusiveness, burst and long speed to take it to the house almost any time he catches the ball with room to run.

His route running/hands/balance/toughness/vision/speed profile is special; few have that combination of high-level traits. The bottom line with Bowers is that he has the high-level athletic traits and elite ball skills to develop into one of the NFL's best receiving weapons. He can line up in multiple locations within the formation and present matchup issues for the defense.

Bowers lined up in multiple locations in the Georgia offense, including snaps at boundary X on the back side of trips; he was featured on jet sweeps to take advantage of his speed and run-after-catch."

From another site: "He can be utilized as a receiver split wide, in the slot, or in a traditional tight end role, offering flexibility in offensive schemes. Yards After Catch (YAC): His ability to gain yards after the catch is notable..."

Just overall, an offensive juggernaut and future All Pro. He's basically a bigger/stronger WR with elite skills to get open and has great character and work ethic

Evan Engram vibes!

If I'm remembering correctly, Slayton and Darnay Holmes got healthy bumps from this system.

Very sad to hear.

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on April 01, 2024, 07:14:40 PMHow was what you just said to me "speaking in general terms"? You were very specifically referring to what I wrote in my post and lecturing me on something that I wasn't even doing.

If you want to say you misunderstood or misspoke, then that's fine, but if not, at least own your own words.

I was commenting on the severity of the warts that these players possessed, not saying that you were advocating for them.

I can give you an example of targeting/lecturing you if it makes you feel better or you can move on. Pettiness doesn't provide value to the board.

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on April 01, 2024, 05:13:37 PMBefore you hand out lectures to people, I recommend re-reading their posts and making certain you understand what they have written.

I gave a list of players whose stock dropped due to "character concerns" or off the field problems. Nowhere in my post did I say or even remotely imply that the various reasons for each player being on the list were equal or even close in severity. There was nothing in my post that suggested I think this.

That you couldn't understand this, and that you would then claim I think smoking weed is equal to beating up a woman would normally be something I would take exception to, but it is so absurdly preposterous that I can't simply take you or your post seriously.

I was speaking in general terms. Of course I believe it's a case by case base, much like you stated in your post.

Calm down.

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on March 31, 2024, 11:31:04 AMBeing so hell-bent on "intangibles" that you steer clear of anyone who had "smoke" around him is a methodology that would have eliminated a lot of players from one's draft board who ended up being good if not great NFL players:

Micah Parsons
Brandon Flowers
Navorro Bowman
Laremy Tunsiil
Frank Clark
Alvin Kamara
Tyrann Matthieu
Joe Mixon

Those are just a handful of examples.

I'm not saying it's a bad approach to steer clear of anyone with even a minor incident or minor rumors on his resume. But anyone who wants to take that approach needs to own the fact that they're going to miss out on a lot of good to great NFL players with that approach.

For me, it's case-by-case. Young people make mistakes sometimes. That doesn't mean all of them are long term bad apples.

There's a difference between Tunsil smoking pot and Joe Mixon punching a woman in the face.

Don't conflate minor issues with assaulting a woman.

Quote from: Brooklyn Dave on March 31, 2024, 10:29:35 AMWhile they are both guards, both Quenton Nelson and Zack Martin were first round picks and have become perennial All Pros .

Great players, for sure. However, guards do not impact the game in the same way as other positions.

The difference between competent guard play and elite guard play is far different than an elite player at a premium position (ex: QB, WR, LT, CB, pass rusher) versus "competent" play at those positions.

Getting to "competent" line play has been an issue for this team for over 10 years despite investments in the line.

Given the draft and free agent resources invested in the line this off-season, i can't see the team investing a top 10 pick into an offensive line position. It stinks that we're even discussing the team drafting another tackle after the team invested a top 7 pick into Evan Neal just a few years back (not to mention a top 5 pick into Andrew Thomas a few years before that pick).

Quote from: EDjohnst1981 on March 30, 2024, 04:51:34 PMIf anything, he ought to credit for winning 3 games with DeVito

The team looked competitive with Tyrod Taylor and Devito in the game. Couldn't say the same for Jones outside of the second half of that AZ game.

He o-line needs to figure it out. There's no way that this team dumps more resources into this line in rounds 1/2. Maybe you see something in round 3 but...

Dobbins has back to back seasons with serious injuries. Incentive-laden or not, he's anything but reliable.

Quote from: Bob In PA on March 24, 2024, 09:44:28 AMMaybe Jones doesn't have the "innate trait" (think fast, play slow) but I'd ask Lombardi to get out there behind the Giants' offensive line and show me how!  lol  NOT ONE WORD ABOUT THE OFFENSIVE LINE. Two thumbs down.

As for the QB's discussed, he's not hearing much. I say that because mostly he talked about the various types of scouts and what they look for, as well as the various things HE looks for when evaluating a QB.

None of that is something he "heard" but rather his view of the drafting process(and I agree with all of that).

Bob

There were quite a bit of times last season where Jones had an opportunity to hold the balls for a few ticks longer before taking a downfield shot. Being battered over the years likely impacted that ability.

I agree with Lombardi: the team needs to admit that Jones is not the solution.

Age and injuries? Probably round 2-3.