When asked about favorite players people tend to list the stars. However most hard core fans have a few favorites that never reached the level of stardom but their hard work, effort and character make them personal favorites. Who would make your list?
Thank you for suggesting this topic, Mighty. It has the potential to be a trip down the forgotten alley that flanks memory lane.
As a former lineman, I have always appreciated the unheralded contributions of the men who clear paths for the stars who carry the ball. I've selected one or two blockers from each of the past five decades of whom I was particularly fond:
2000-Present: Rich Seubert
Seubert is absolutely my favorite player from the current team. His competitive fire, dependability, smarts and athleticism are admirable. His work ethic and determination in making the team as an undrafted free agent, becoming a starter, working for two years to rehab from disastrous injury, then once again becoming a starter and finally a Super Bowl champion is the sort of story any fan should be able to get behind.
1990's: Charles Way
Way was an exceptional blocking fullback who played for teams that had very weak offenses. He was often asked to step up and contribute and as runner and receiver as well, and was one of the Giants' receiving a rushing leaders for a few years. He suffered an unfortunate neck injury that ended his career just as the offense began to improve in the late 90's. Today he still works for the team in the role of advisor to the teams young players, attempting to assist them in transitioning to professional life.
1980's: Maurice Carthon and Brad Benson
Carthon was a monstrous blocking fullback who joined the Giants in 1985 after playing in the USFL, where he led the way for Herschel Walker. The Giants' running game instantly became one of the best in the league, Joe Morris rocketed to stardom and the team won two Super Bowls in the next 7 years with Carthon clearing paths for their running backs.
Benson played left tackle for the Giants for ten years from 1978-1987. Early in his career, he was thought of as an average player who the team often tried to replace. Benson stuck around, and in 1986 he emerged as one of the top tackles in football. His defining moment was a game late in the '86 season against the Redskins, when Benson shut out Washington's trash-talking pass rusher Dexter Manley after suffering a broken and bloodied nose in the first quarter.
1970's: Doug Van Horn
Van Horn played guard for the terrible Giants teams of the 1970's. He was a good player on those bad teams, having joined the team after many years of success at Ohio State. He was a team captain under several different coaches and played his entire career with the Giants. I appreciated the way he was loyal to the team even when he could have tried to force his way out and sign on with a winner by going negative in the press, as players like Bob Tucker or John Mendenhall did.
1960's: Jack Stroud and Ray Wietecha
Along with hall of famer Rosey Brown, Stroud and Wietecha were the foundation of the great Giants teams of the late 1950's and 1960's. They both played the role of team captain at various times and were a critical part of the best offenses in Giants' history.
Our 1968 draft choice from Tulane...that left handed QB who Allie thought would become a fine DB......but was convinced by Fran in training camp that he was a very useful RB................
Bobby Duhon. Good old Number 28.
Later to become Tucker Frederickson's brother in law....and then his EX brother in law.
Nice rookie year, excellent out of the backfield catching passes, above average punt returner....2 of his next 4 years were basically destroyed by knee injuries.
To me he had the look of a Joe Morrison, whom any team can always use.
My other 2 are WR that I think had the possibility of becoming special.......Coleman Zeno...and Odessa Turner.
I still have the Odessa game against the Skins back in I believe it was 1988 where he caught 7 or 8 balls, over 100 yards, 1 TD....and then ran into a fence at old RFK and blew out his knee in the 3rd quarter. Big and Fast, he reminded so closely of Homer Jones I still salivate thinking about it.
Zeno was a 17th round draft choice from Grambling in 1971, late in the year against the Chargers finally dresses and caught 4 balls for 90 yards, 2 of which would have been TD but Fran could not reach him in stride, he was too fast.
Next week catches 1 pass, blows out knee....GONE.
There were only 17 rounds back then, he had a chance to become something special.
Or at least in my then young mind, they all 3 might have been...... :)
When I first saw this thread I thought it was interesting and a few names crossed my mind but just never got around to posting anything on it. But seeing it again made me think about my favorite player growing up/and my posting name of course--Alex Webster.
And I got to thinking--was he or was he not a star. I am not really sure. It was probably tough being considered a star on the same team loaded with a Huff, Gifford, Conerly, Tittle, Brown, Grier, Katcavage, Robustelli, Lynch, Patton etc. When the subject of star players of the Giants from the 50's and 60's comes up it seems that Big Red is rarely mentioned.
His best year yardage wise was 1961 when he rushed for 928 and a 4.7 average. It was the closest a Giant player came to 1000 until Ron Johnson became the first Giant to break that barrier. He had a pretty good first year with the Giants in 1955 when he rushed for 634 on 128 attempts for that magic figure of 5.0 yards per attempt with a long of 71 yards. Not to shabby.
So I sort of have a question for some of you Giant fans who are a bit long in tooth like me and remember Red. Was he a star???
Keith Ellias
Charles Way
Conrad Hamilton
Andy Headen
Dan Campbell (TE)
Chase Blackburn
Rich Seubert
Collins, Jackson and Guyton (close to stars)
Scott Galyon backed up Armistead from 1996 - 99
I have one of his game worn jerseys.
Bill
Quote from: Webster29 on January 21, 2011, 12:10:35 AM
So I sort of have a question for some of you Giant fans who are a bit long in tooth like me and remember Red. Was he a star???
My teeth are not quite that long, but he was selected to 2 pro-bowls so I am not sure he wasn't at least considered a star in his day. Then again, this is sort of a free form type of discussion and so he may have gotten some recognition as you point out his name has not exactly lived on strongly in Giants lore.
I thought I had already posted on this thread. Somehow, it've must've gone into cyberspace.
About Webster...He certainly WAS a star. They played the full backfield the, he & Gifford at HB & Mel Triplett at FB.
Others I remember...Choo Choo Roberts; Eddie Price; Harmon Rowe & Otto Schnellbacher (half of the "Umbrella D backfield); the Poole brothers - Jim, Ray & Barney, all from Ole Miss; Bill Swiacki. Just some oldies who wer among my earlier heroes on the Giants.
Jim: no it didn't go into cyberspace and your not loosing your mind. I posted both on this thread and the one I started about a question for the long in tooth on the main board. And I asked for anyone with an opinion on Big Red to either post here on the history board or to my thread on the main board. You answered the thread on the main board. Sorry for the confusion my friend.
My heroes:
Jim Burt- He was just a fun guy and a solid NT. Had a great relationship with Parcels.
Leon Bright- The former Canadian footballer who didn't believe in fair catching punts.
I just now stumbled upon this thread. Some of my faves that weren't stars have been mentioned (Burt, Way). Some of those I liked played the same position but at different points in time - Phil McConkey, Stephen Baker and Ike Hilliard. Of those, I think Hilliard may be considered a star. My fave memories of McConkey were from Super Bowl XXI - when he ran onto the field, he was so excited he ran all the way down the sideline and knocked over the pylon in the end zone. As a kid (I was 11 at the time) I thought that was funny and of course his TD catch that bounced off of Bavaro, which has been in the highlight clips ever since.
Troy Archer !
Reyna Thompson
Scott Galyon
Bill
I am not sure how we define star in this post. Solid player who was not a pro bowler? Gary Reasons, perhaps? Bobby Johnson? Lionel Manuel?
How about Phil McConkey. A quick story: I believe the roster number back in the 1980s was 53, but I am not sure, so I have to paraphrase the following. When Bill Parcells was asked after a final pre-season game circa 1986 about his final player cut down, Bill answered, "I am not sure who 48 to 52 will be. But #53 will be Phil McConkey."
Another who is dear to my heart is Herbie Welch. Retro can back me up that I screamed for the Giants to draft him late in the 1985 draft. Herb played very well for the Gs from 85-87, and I believe he was a Giant starter in Super Bowl XXI.
But my all-time favorite "non-star": Giants running back Rob Carpenter. Some history: In 1981, through five games, the Giants were stumbling through another year of bad offense, with no real running game, and sat at 2-3. At this point, Giant GM George Young made an in-season trade with Houston for blocking back Rob Carpenter. Immediately, Carpenter made an impact, running for 104 against the Cardinals as the Gs improved to 3-3. Carpenter remained an integral part of the Giants offense as they made their first post-season appearance in 18 years as a wild card team. They accomplished this feat by beating the Cowboys in overtime on the season's last game, a 13-10 overtime win. The playoff Giants then downed the defending NFC champs Eagles 27-21, with Carpenter running for 161 yards on 33 carries and catching four passes for 32 yards. This victory was the Giants first post-season win since 1956. Rob Carpenter would remain an integral part of the Giants through 1985, but, injury ridden, he ended up on the Rams in 1986, missing the Giants' Super Bowl win.
Rob Carpenter: a true winner. A player whose Giant career remains deep in my memories. And even deeper in my appreciation. If you ever check in here, Rob, I thank you for your efforts.
Big Hitter
I'm willing to bet Rob Carpenter was the last Giants FB with more than a 100 rushing attempts in a season
Pretty good intuition, Rich, but you would have lost that bet. Jarrod Bunch had 104 carries for 501 yards and three touchdowns in 1992. Charles Way ran the ball 151 times for 698 yards and four touchdowns in 1997 and 113 times for 432 and three touchdowns in 1998. He was also a damn fine receiver, catching over 30 passes in three consecutive seasons. His 37 catches for 304 yards in 1997 gave him a total of 1002 yards from scrimmage that campaign. A 1000+ yard season is a feat that we most likely will not see again soon (if ever) out of a Giant fullback.
Now that I think about it, Charlie Way is another all-time non-star favorite of mine.
i would have said that also. along with Maurice Carthon were two of my favorite non stars at RB.
To me, a non star is a guy with limited talent, so he will enver gain stardom, but gosh darn plays their heart out on every play to the best of their ability.
George Martin would head my list. As football players go, he wasn't a big star, but to any Giants fan, he was huge.
Same can be said for Brian Kelley.
+ 1!
Relatively new to the board and just found this thread. Didn
Quote from: Rosehill Jimmy on April 20, 2019, 02:14:40 PM
Relatively new to the board and just found this thread. Didn
Yep, knew his number is retired. I mentioned him only because he
This one's easy, Perry Williams, the most under rated player of all time!
Quote from: Rosehill Jimmy on April 20, 2019, 07:34:56 PM
Yep, knew his number is retired. I mentioned him only because he
I think he went to Syracuse, now we are going back a ways for sure.
I hope we all remember Jeremy LIncoln, the flash. ......wow I can still see him in my nightmares, right after shark attacks and before boy bands! UGH!
they were all "stars" to this wide eyed kid yet very fond memories during the bleak 1970's come from these names:
RB Doug Kotar the motor..saw him drag 4 Jets on his back for over 10 yards scoring a TD in 1974 preseason. saw him catch 11-108 yards in a 1976 week 4, 26-21 loss to the St Louis Cardinals . Kotar caught the ball on a flair pass running down the left sideline in the clear with seconds left for winning TD when Cardinal S Norm Thompson came out of nowhere and pushed him out of bounds at the 39. 2 seconds left and instead of looking for Kotar? (Crudinals had touble stopping him all day) Qb Craig Morton throws incomplete in the end zone off the hands (!) of Walker Gillete.....looking back now, Gillete was the Evan Engram of his day hahaha check out week 2 of 1976 vs Philly to see him drop sure TD!
NT/DT and on occasion DE, John Mendenhall - ok if I could use a time machine and go back and grab a past NYG defender not named LT? its the recently passed John Mendenhall. His sideline to sideline pursuit was incredible, he was named all pro in 1974 for a 2-12 team (!) Cowboys G John Niland said after NYG 14-6 week 3 win @ Dallas "best DT in the conference? hell the best DT in football. we game planned our whole offense to take him out and he single handedly destroyed us!" I saw him play in person many times. I can recall him being double and triple teamed, yet making the tackle. btw the times he played DE was in 1973 when NT Rich Glover was part of the rotation. Mendenhall DE, Jacobson/Campbell/Goich DT, Glover NT, Gregory DE... was the 3rd down rushing package.