If you were going to start a team which running back would you take?
Frank Gifford? 3609 YDS Rushing, 34 TD Rushing, 5434 YDS Receiving, 43 TD Receiving
Joe Morris? 5,585 YDS, 4.0 AVG, 50 TD 960 YDS Receiving 2 TD Receiving
Rodney Hampton? 6,897 YDS, 3.8 AVG, 49 TD 1309 YDS Receiving 2 TD Receiving
Ottis Anderson? 10,273 YDS, 4.0 AVG, 81 TD 3062 YDS Receiving 5 TD Receiving
Tiki Barder? 10,449 YDS, 4.7 AVG, 55 TD 5183 YDS Receiving 12 TD Receiving
Brandon Jacobs? 4849 YRDS, 4.5 AVG 56 TD 730 YDS Receiving 4 TD Receiving
I would take OJ Anderson first if I could have him from the beginning .......... <:-P
Quote from: Jian on May 23, 2012, 09:21:15 AM
I would take OJ Anderson first if I could have him from the beginning .......... <:-P
Yeah I was stumped on that one. Do I qualify OJ to be the guy the Giants got or do I acknowledge his entire career
Quote from: Jian on May 23, 2012, 09:21:15 AM
I would take OJ Anderson first if I could have him from the beginning .......... <:-P
I agree. Damn....did Otis really have over 10,000 yards rushing? I didn't realize that!!!
Quote from: ElioverPeyton on May 23, 2012, 09:24:38 AM
Quote from: Jian on May 23, 2012, 09:21:15 AM
I would take OJ Anderson first if I could have him from the beginning .......... <:-P
I agree. Damn....did Otis really have over 10,000 yards rushing? I didn't realize that!!!
7999 of those yards were with St Louis
2274 were with the Giants
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/A/AndeOt00.htm (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/A/AndeOt00.htm)
O.J. was a premier back during his time with the Cardinals. He was a very good back, and a great leader for the Giants.
I don't know if he was the greatest but Lil'Joe was my All-Time favorite Giants RB. Lil' was a misnomer, he was a short, powerful back with speed, and he could run inside or out, pick up the blitz, catch passes, and run block.
He was part of the Giants turnaround, he dominated in more than a handfull of games in 1986 (1st title in 30 yrs), so I'll always have a soft spot for him.
Ottis Anderson? 10,273 YDS, 4.0 AVG, 81 TD 3062 YDS Receiving 5 TD Receiving
Tiki Barder? 10,449 YDS, 4.7 AVG, 55 TD 5183 YDS Receiving 12 TD Receiving
Brandon Jacobs? 4849 YRDS, 4.5 AVG 56 TD 730 YDS Receiving 4 TD Receiving
those are the stats. some 'what if's'.....
what if Otis had been a Giant for his whole career?
what if tiki had played 2-3 more?
or if BJ had remained a Giant 2-3 more?
Given the #'s and the fact that Otis was a card most of his years, putting aside a player's personal life, off field comments, sour grapes, stupidity, etc. and for me being objective, looking at running, catching, blocking, and the whole package, and I look at the NY Giants, I'll cast a vote for tiki.
Tiki Barber as pure production, but there's more to it than that. He had at least 2 good years left too. The thing is and it's difficult to know what would have really happened, but if Tiki had stayed, what would history look like. Do the Giants fall apart in '07 because of pernicious activity instigated by Barber? Or, do they still win SBXXII and go on to win in "08. I think most would say the former rather than the later.
WOW!! What a choice! I loved them all! So, let's look at them on-by-one.
Frank Gifford...All-time Giant Great. Rushing yards low only because Stout Steve made him a DB when he first came here & then he switched to WR after he came back from his injury. He also shared duties with another terrific RB, Alex Webster. His overall TD total was 77, the HIGHEST of any of the others (excpt OJ who got most of his as a Cardinal). BTW, he made All Pro as a DB, RB & WR!! To me, he'll always be "Mr. Giants."
Joe Morris...His stats speak for themselves. Terrific RB but wasn't the best at receiving out of the backfield. (But, who can forget his receiving TD in that great comebak W at the 49ers?)
Rodney...Lots of power & speed. Could always count on him to get the tough yards when needed. Wish he had played under TC instead of Mr. Unmentionable.
OJ...Is there any Giant fan who didn't love this guy? He came here as a "has-been" in '86 just in case something happened to Joe Morris. The Giants rewarded him with a SB TD on a one yard plunge. But, wait a minute! He hung on, getting tough yards when necessary, earning MVP in SB XXV. When the Giants had a lead with five minutes or so left in a game, they'd hand him the ball & he'd run out the clock. God, if we only had him his entire career!!!
Tiki...Stats & pure ability shown brightly througout his career after TC taught him how to hold onto the ball. Could have been one of the greatest Giants of all time but he threw it all away. I'll NEVER forgive him for that!
BJ...An enigma his whole Giants career. Loved his fire.
CHOICE...For me, I'll take OJ.
I think it has to be between Barber and Hampton. Hampton played on some really bad teams so I think his 3.8 career YPC isn't really indicative of how good he was. I believe he also still holds the records for lowest percentage of fumbles (with some minimum # of carries). The definition of a reliable back. That said, Barber was a complete back. He could hit the home run and was surprisingly effective between the tackles and on short yardage. He was great out of the back-field and a willing, if unspectacular blocker. Not sure any of the other backs on here were the complete package like that. If he wasn't a fumble machine early in his career I don't think this contest would even be close.
I have a soft spot in my heart for Dave Meggett. Unlike Brandon Jacobs who ran hard one Sunday and got tackled by 175 lb CBs on other Sundays for loss, Dave Meggett always seemed to convert third downs for the Giants, both as a runner and pass catcher. I know he doesn't have the yards that merit his name on your list, but damn, he was the real deal to me.
I always thought that if Rodney Hampton hadn't gotten hurt, and had played with better coaching, he would have been the best Giants back ever. At his best he was like a cross between Barry Sanders and OJ Anderson. (I know I'm exaggerating a bit)
As much as his exit has soured all of us, it has to be Tiki Barber. Has to be.
I remember OJ always killing the Giants when he played us. Seemed like he got 8,000 of those yards against the Giants. He came to the Giants and was the good soldier on the bench waiting for his turn. He did and said all the right things. When he finally got his chance, he didn't care that he was over-the-hill and washed up. He won his Superbowl MVP! He is one of my very favorite players. His nickame OJ is the only time I can think of, that some player following the original nicknamed player was better ....There were multiple LT's and Sugar Rays but the original was usually the best. Not so for Otis. He is my favorite Giant RB.
Without seeing the list and the numbers, it was a toss-up between Anderson and Meggett. But it's Anderson because he was an old timer when he got here and I was so pleased when he fulfilled the "run first" part of the Giants offensive strategy. He was a likable man and it seems that he has transfered and maintained his roots from the Cardinals to the Giants in his retired life. I actually don't know what his relationship with the Cardinal organization is.
Oh Tiki, that hated man, would have been the obvious choice but with a lack of humble pie in his diet, he failed to memorialize himself. (can you immemorialize yousef? He did if it's possible.)
Quote from: PSUBeirut on May 23, 2012, 12:36:23 PM
As much as his exit has soured all of us, it has to be Tiki Barber. Has to be.
+1
Anyone else sincerely hoping that in a couple years we can answer this with "David Wilson"?
I'm not zeph. I just hope Wilson is a good RB.
I think Tiki (at least in terms of when each was a Giant) was the best RB on the field. However his negative locker room presence would make me hesitant to take him as my RB.
I don't think Tiki had that locker room cancer reputation until after he retired. While he was playing, he was a classy, team first guy who was one of Wellington Mara's favorites. He was nowhere near the disruptive influence that Jeremy Shockey was. I don't think he's nearly as bad as he's being portrayed, although he did deserve the scorn for his post Giant career choices. It was just one misstep after another for that guy.
Quote from: UniHamachi on May 23, 2012, 04:53:39 PM
I don't think Tiki had that locker room cancer reputation until after he retired. While he was playing, he was a classy, team first guy who was one of Wellington Mara's favorites. He was nowhere near the disruptive influence that Jeremy Shockey was. I don't think he's nearly as bad as he's being portrayed, although he did deserve the scorn for his post Giant career choices. It was just one misstep after another for that guy.
Tiki was a cancer on the team pretty much from the moment Tom Coughlin showed up. The constant public critiques of the coaching? The 2006 farewell tour as the season was going on? Those were anything but classy.
1.Barber
2.Gifford
3.Anderson
4.Hampton
5.Morris
I'll cast my vote for Frank Gifford. I'll stand on his overall body of work with the most Rushing & Receiving TD's of any Giant RB.
OJ was a phenomenal RB with the Cards. With us (as mentioned) he was good as a Player & equally good as a Leader.
three fine backs you forgot, well two play a long time ago, tuffy leamans and eddie price who is the last giant to lead the league in rushing.
the other was ron johnson who play in a 14 game season, twice ran for over 1000 yards.
had 1204 carries for 4308 yards, for a 36 average, and score 40 tds rushing, and 15 with the past.
it is easy to forget these guys for they play years ago.
Otis Jerome Anderson
Funny that no one has even mentioned Ahmad Bradshaw who runs with as much heart, physicality, and determination as anyone.
I love Rodney Hampton too, but I always associate him with some very disappointing seasons with Reeves and the nameless one. I didn't like the way Jim Fassel unceremoniously ushered him out the door. I never really cared for Fassel as a result.
Joe Morris was awesome, just awesome..but his star rose and fell in too short a time.
Agree with joeynygiants. Was waiting for the name Ron Johnson to come up. He was a fret RB for a short period of years but, if my memory is good, ran behind a woeful offensive line with o passing attack. But, for owe few years, he was as good as anyone we've ever had.
To the post above re Tiki. I think he also had a few very special years. But, he was a cancer in the locker room well before he retired. To his credit, he produced on the field.
I really don't have an opinion on who was their greatest RB but I will throw in a couple of thoughts. Good catch by Joey on Ron Johnson. This guy gets over looked a lot when the subject of the top Giants RB's comes up. He played on some very poor Giant teams but he gave them some credibility and respect.
And I am glad that some of the folks here are giving Gif his due. Many younger fans would look at his career stats and brush him off but he was so talented. He was Paul Horning before Paul was.
And as far as OJ Anderson is concerned. I have said this many times before. It gets to me that when the subject of players who are not in the HOF but should be he is missing from most peoples lists. At the time of his retirement he was something like 4th or 5th in the neighborhood anyway in all time rushing yardage. But shortly after his retirement several backs flew by him. But I'd take this guy on my team any day.
Ron Johnson was the FIRST Giant to rush for 1,000 yards. The ONLY reason that I didn't pick Gifford for my all-time RB is because, as I said, he played THREE different positions. And, BTW, Giff was also the "third string" QB. If necessary he could've played there. He actually threw the halfback option pass successfully. IMO, he's the greatest all-time Giant.
Quote from: jimv on May 24, 2012, 12:41:41 AM
Ron Johnson was the FIRST Giant to rush for 1,000 yards. The ONLY reason that I didn't pick Gifford for my all-time RB is because, as I said, he played THREE different positions. And, BTW, Giff was also the "third string" QB. If necessary he could've played there. He actually threw the halfback option pass successfully. IMO, he's the greatest all-time Giant.
Very compelling argument. I would say the greatest all time offensive weapon.
I get your point, Ed. And, I agree. Obviously, LT was the greatest all-time defensive weapon. But, as far as "once a Giant, always a Giant" goes, Frank epitomizes that statement.
Quote from: jimv on May 24, 2012, 12:41:41 AM
Ron Johnson was the FIRST Giant to rush for 1,000 yards. The ONLY reason that I didn't pick Gifford for my all-time RB is because, as I said, he played THREE different positions. And, BTW, Giff was also the "third string" QB. If necessary he could've played there. He actually threw the halfback option pass successfully. IMO, he's the greatest all-time Giant.
Jim, you could also add that he made the pro bowl at all three of those positions. What about Eugene O. "Choo-Choo" Roberts who at the time in 1950 set a league record and held the Giant record until Barber broke it and Alphonse "Tuffy" Emil Leemans who was inducted into the Hall of Fame in 1978. Where is Lenn when you need him.
I'm not suggesting he's the best Giant running back ever, probebly not even in the top 5 or 6. But does anyone else out there think that the name Rob Carpenter should show up somewhere in this thread?
Quote from: CoachS on May 24, 2012, 03:59:06 PM
I'm not suggesting he's the best Giant running back ever, probebly not even in the top 5 or 6. But does anyone else out there think that the name Rob Carpenter should show up somewhere in this thread?
One of the last of the rushing fullbacks. Thanks for that blast from the past
He averaged 8 yards per reception too.
http://www.nfl.com/player/robcarpenter/2511111/profile
Frank, I already said that Giff made All-Pro at all three positions.
Ya I loved Ron Johnson too. All heart. Not much other talent or heart on the team for most of his time playing aka the dark years ...... Amazing to realize how good he would've been with a solid team around him. Many thanks to George Young for bringing the NY Giants out of their Dark Ages
Quote from: CoachS on May 24, 2012, 03:59:06 PM
I'm not suggesting he's the best Giant running back ever, probebly not even in the top 5 or 6. But does anyone else out there think that the name Rob Carpenter should show up somewhere in this thread?
Thanks coach! My first few years as a fan was watching Carpenter mash into the defense for 5 yards every time with his shirt hanging out lookong all haggard. He was the only offense ( we didnt even have a Chris Calloway yet.
I also loved watching Hampton play, tough runner.
If not for the fumbles and ego, Tiki by a longshot
Quote from: Jian on May 25, 2012, 08:48:08 PM
Ya I loved Ron Johnson too. All heart. Not much other talent or heart on the team for most of his time playing aka the dark years ...... Amazing to realize how good he would've been with a solid team around him. Many thanks to George Young for bringing the NY Giants out of their Dark Ages
Sort of like Hampton?
I don't care what Tiki Barber said about Eli Manning or anyone else, he is my choice hands down. I have been a Giant fan since Mel Triplett, Alex Webster, and Frank Gifford were the running backs. Tiki and Gifford were the two most complete backs in Giant history. :ok: :ok: :ok:
You got that right, king of the bronx.
Cheers!
Since most on the board never saw Gifford play, stats just do not do this man justice. With the ball in his arms, he was a glider all over the field. Why does a power back need to get all the votes. My vote goes for Gifford.
And, since we are reminiscing, and the big "WHAT IF' words have been spoken, let's talk the best of the Baby Bulls, Mr Tucker Fredrickson. Gosh, how great would he have been if not for the injuries that took his career away.
I SAW Gifford play!!! And, everything you said it correct Lenny!! He'd the "GREATEST Giant," period. As I said, he was an All-Star at THREE positions.
Oh boy, Tucker Fredickson, what a runner!
More on Giff... He played in a "full backfield" of
QB - Chuckin' Charlie
HB - Giff HB - Big Red
FB - Mel Triplett
WOW!!
And, Giff could throw the HB option pass very well. I don't know how many TDs he threw. But, he did get some.
You have it backwards Big Red was the full back and Triplett was the half back, and a little later they had Bobby Gaiters, I seen them all.They would practice at Fordham University, which was one block from my school we would go watch them, and at night they would use our school for class room study. They would come and play basketball with us all the time, I remember Roosevelt Brown asking me for the ball to take a shot, and he threw it at the basket like a baseball, I had never seen any human being with arms that huge in my life. :scared: :scared: :scared:
For me, memory fades as my mind remembers the more recent guys. Great players, all. But for me there was few things sweeter than seeing Barber in 2005 and 2006 evade a tackle and hit the open field. Complete sh1t off the park, a dream on it. When I think of Little Joe I remember the 49ers Play Off game in '85 and him streaking upfield and me putting on the strobe effect on our new TV. Memories.
Sorry, king, you may have watched them line up at practice at Fordham, but Triplett was the FB. I was able to watch most of their games in '56 on TV down in Tampa FL. Then I watched 58, 59 & 60 back home in NY. And, Triplett lined up at FB & Big Red at HB. I think I remember Big Red playing some FB after Triplett left after the '60 season. That's probably beacuse Bobby Gaiters was new in '61 (the year Giff didn't play). But Gaiters only lasted tywo years.
The greatest RB in Giants history is also the most disliked player in Giants history, I don't even need to type his name.
Jimv I sat in the stands in yankee Stadium and watched them play many, many times as a kid. I did not only watch them practice. 8)) 8)) 8))
OK, king. But, Triplett was the FB through 1960. In the list of all Giant players, Mel Triplett is listed as "FB."
Didn't the FB in those days get more involved in running the ball? Nowadays they mostly block for the RB and some pass catching.
Yes, indeed the fullback was a ball carrier- often the major one- back in the day. There were three backs behind the Quarterback who was "under the Center" in the T formation. They crossed the T which is where it is got its name. The guy in the middle might be a half to a full step deeper than the other two which is why he was called, Fullback; the others were called, Halfbacks. In those days, Mel Triplett was the fullback, Gifford and Webster, the halfbacks. Chuckin' Charlie Connery was the QB, the Giants first ever T formation Quarterback. But even before then Connerly's FBs included Gene "Choo Choo" Roberts and Eddie Price with Joe Scott, and Skippy Minisi, and Kyle Rote as the Halfbacks.
Before the Charlie Connerly era began, the Giants played the Steve Owen's "A formation" which was a variation the single wing. Paul Governali was the Wingback; Ken Strong was the Fullback, Joe Sulaitis the Blocking Back, and Howie Livingston was Tailback.
Cheers!
YES, Ed, they did get more involved in the running. That was still going on through the time that Rob Carpenter was our FB. It's only starting with Maurice Carthon that I can remember the FB becoming more or less a full-time blocker.
Terrific post on the late 40s & early 50s, Painter!! Thanks for reminding me of Minisi & Joe Scott. But, I don't remember Howie Livingston. But, I looked him up & found that he played from '44 to '47. My rooting interest in the Giants only started in '46, so it was easy for me to forget him. Governali had only two years on the Gaints & was basically finished when Charlie showed up. Conerly began as Wingback in the A formation. I don't exactly remember when they put Conerly under center as a QB. But, I think it was '49 or '50. Can you remember, Painter? Or, how 'bout you, Fladan?
BTW, the biggest thing I remember about Governali was his pass for a TD to Bill Swiacki when Columbia upset that great Army team in '46. Swiacki played three years for the Jints, outlasting Governali.
BTW, I was a HUGE fan of Roberts & Eddie Price!
I bit off topic I know but bringing up Mel Triplett made me think of Lew Alcindor/Kareem Abdul Jabbar. Through out his career he wore number 33. The reason was his favorite football player as kid growing up was number 33, Giant fb Mel Triplett.
The switch to the T Formation was 1949, jimv. As for the other date, Columbia ended Army's 32 game winning streak in October 1947. I was at that game with my mom who was a huge fan of Lou Little's Lions, and the reason Columbia later became my alma mater. What she didn't know at the time was that I was rooting for Army. In any case, it wasn't Pitchin' Paul Governali but Gene Rossides who threw the famous pass to Bill Swiaki who caught it with his finger tips to cut the score to 20-14. He made another 4th Quarter catch on the Army 3 yard line after which Lou Kusserow ran it in to make the final score 21-20. Rossides and Kusserow were known as the Gold Dust Twins.
Cheers!
Thanks for the correction, Painter! As soon as I wrote that, I thought, "Oh, oh! Army was undefeated in '46 with only the 0-0 tie with ND as a blemish. And, thanks for '49. As I said, I thought it was either '49 or '50.
Ahhh, if only we'd seen what Tucker Frederickson could have done.
Interesting note...Tucker's High School graduation year.....the All American High School team.... Dick Butkus FB, Gayle Sayles and Tucker at half back (it was still based on the Full House) and a guy name Joe at QB. That would be Namath.
Tucker, Gayle and Namath's years all compromised by Knee injuries that could be fixed today.
For me, I never saw Gifford play except for highlight reels. He was way before my time. I remember Morris - vaguely. Same goes for OJ. I don't really remember Hampton, oddly enough, but that's probably because he played on some poor teams. Tiki is probably the freshest in my mind and like others have said, his off the field antics and the way he left the team left a bad taste in my mouth. However, when he played it was hard to not root for him. If I had to pick the best though, it's hard to say but both OJ and Morris were favorites of mine, yet I agree that Tiki was an all around player. I'd probably, on a very slight margin, go with Tiki. I can't really stand him now though.
Quote from: McGIANTS on May 30, 2012, 09:00:21 AM
For me, I never saw Gifford play except for highlight reels. He was way before my time. I remember Morris - vaguely. Same goes for OJ. I don't really remember Hampton, oddly enough, but that's probably because he played on some poor teams. Tiki is probably the freshest in my mind and like others have said, his off the field antics and the way he left the team left a bad taste in my mouth. However, when he played it was hard to not root for him. If I had to pick the best though, it's hard to say but both OJ and Morris were favorites of mine, yet I agree that Tiki was an all around player. I'd probably, on a very slight margin, go with Tiki. I can't really stand him now though.
Is that Weatherford in your avatar?
Quote from: MightyGiants on May 30, 2012, 10:02:56 AM
Quote from: McGIANTS on May 30, 2012, 09:00:21 AM
For me, I never saw Gifford play except for highlight reels. He was way before my time. I remember Morris - vaguely. Same goes for OJ. I don't really remember Hampton, oddly enough, but that's probably because he played on some poor teams. Tiki is probably the freshest in my mind and like others have said, his off the field antics and the way he left the team left a bad taste in my mouth. However, when he played it was hard to not root for him. If I had to pick the best though, it's hard to say but both OJ and Morris were favorites of mine, yet I agree that Tiki was an all around player. I'd probably, on a very slight margin, go with Tiki. I can't really stand him now though.
Is that Weatherford in your avatar?
Yes, he is. That's from the ring ceremony. I thought he looks excited, yet kind of silly (I think it was his "suit") so I decided to use the pic as my avatar.
Quote from: McGIANTS on May 30, 2012, 12:12:46 PM
Quote from: MightyGiants on May 30, 2012, 10:02:56 AM
Quote from: McGIANTS on May 30, 2012, 09:00:21 AM
For me, I never saw Gifford play except for highlight reels. He was way before my time. I remember Morris - vaguely. Same goes for OJ. I don't really remember Hampton, oddly enough, but that's probably because he played on some poor teams. Tiki is probably the freshest in my mind and like others have said, his off the field antics and the way he left the team left a bad taste in my mouth. However, when he played it was hard to not root for him. If I had to pick the best though, it's hard to say but both OJ and Morris were favorites of mine, yet I agree that Tiki was an all around player. I'd probably, on a very slight margin, go with Tiki. I can't really stand him now though.
Is that Weatherford in your avatar?
Yes, he is. That's from the ring ceremony. I thought he looks excited, yet kind of silly (I think it was his "suit") so I decided to use the pic as my avatar.
There is no doubt that Weatherford fully enjoyed going to the Super Bowl
NY Giants' Steve Weatherford is going to the Superbowl 2012 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xm2DsJ6Ksuc#ws)
Quote from: MightyGiants on May 30, 2012, 12:41:57 PM
Quote from: McGIANTS on May 30, 2012, 12:12:46 PM
Quote from: MightyGiants on May 30, 2012, 10:02:56 AM
Quote from: McGIANTS on May 30, 2012, 09:00:21 AM
For me, I never saw Gifford play except for highlight reels. He was way before my time. I remember Morris - vaguely. Same goes for OJ. I don't really remember Hampton, oddly enough, but that's probably because he played on some poor teams. Tiki is probably the freshest in my mind and like others have said, his off the field antics and the way he left the team left a bad taste in my mouth. However, when he played it was hard to not root for him. If I had to pick the best though, it's hard to say but both OJ and Morris were favorites of mine, yet I agree that Tiki was an all around player. I'd probably, on a very slight margin, go with Tiki. I can't really stand him now though.
Is that Weatherford in your avatar?
Yes, he is. That's from the ring ceremony. I thought he looks excited, yet kind of silly (I think it was his "suit") so I decided to use the pic as my avatar.
There is no doubt that Weatherford fully enjoyed going to the Super Bowl
NY Giants' Steve Weatherford is going to the Superbowl 2012 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xm2DsJ6Ksuc#ws)
Yeah. I kind of became a fan of his after that moment. For a punter he's got a lot of spirit...team spirit.