Big Blue Huddle

General Category => Big Blue Huddle => BBH Archive => Topic started by: vette5573 on June 01, 2012, 08:31:53 AM

Title: NFT: Who do you believe was the Greatest US President?
Post by: vette5573 on June 01, 2012, 08:31:53 AM
It's slow right now and I wanted to test a NFT that is borderline political to see if something like this can be discussed and shared within the community without it getting out of hand.

There is some talk among the Moderator Staff about starting a "Current Events" Board, which would allow discussion of topics that are too hot for the Front Porch. There would be no Political or Religious discussion permitted.

I'm wondering if these topics could be discussed on this board as one tacked up thread that continues and develops as news unfolds. Would it be good or bad for the forum. Rhetorically speaking.

So, leaving party politics out of the conversation and keeping this void of debate because it's about subjective perspective, who do you believe was the greatest President Of The United States? Then, who was your favorite President? Why?
Title: Re: NFT: Who do you believe was the Greatest US President?
Post by: tomeee on June 01, 2012, 08:45:19 AM
I'm not old enough and don't study enough history to even guess at the greatest president.

My favorite is Ronald Regan. Why because he brought back patriotism.
Title: Re: NFT: Who do you believe was the Greatest US President?
Post by: jimv on June 01, 2012, 09:13:24 AM
Greatest?  Lincoln.

Favorite?  Reagan because he was always positive & called things as he saw them.
Title: Re: NFT: Who do you believe was the Greatest US President?
Post by: files58 on June 01, 2012, 09:24:12 AM
This thread could become very charged. I don't think we have seen the greatest President as yet, taking nothing away from Obama and his predecessors. To me the greatest President will separate him or herself from party politics and propose legislation and ideas that will benefit the majority of people in this country. If some industries or folks have to take it on the chin for the benefit of most Americans than that is a price that needs to be paid. I'll stop here for now.
Title: Re: NFT: Who do you believe was the Greatest US President?
Post by: The Chief on June 01, 2012, 09:42:11 AM
If anything belongs onthe Front Porch, this topic is it.

Of course, the moderators don't do a thing about these.
Title: Re: NFT: Who do you believe was the Greatest US President?
Post by: JimboWHO on June 01, 2012, 09:56:04 AM
Quote from: jimv on June 01, 2012, 09:13:24 AM
Greatest?  Lincoln.

Favorite?  Reagan because he was always positive & called things as he saw them.

YES!   1 & 1A



JJM
Title: Re: NFT: Who do you believe was the Greatest US President?
Post by: MightyGiants on June 01, 2012, 09:57:15 AM
In my life time;

Bill Clinton-  8 years of peace and prosperity along with turning record deficits into record surplus can't be beat

Historically, pick one:

Lincoln-  Successfully guided our nation through a civil war

FDR-   Brought our nation out of the Great Depression and guided the nation through a world war

Washington-  He had a huge impact on the office and our nation.   He did a lot that set precedence that is still followed today.
Title: Re: NFT: Who do you believe was the Greatest US President?
Post by: jerseyguy on June 01, 2012, 11:21:14 AM
I don't think we've really seen the best President yet and we won't until we get the lobbyists and political party interests out of the equation. I feel strongly that we won't see the best man in the white house until we can simply vote the best man in there based solely on qualifications and not how much money he can spend on his campaign and how much he owes to big business for favors..
Title: Re: NFT: Who do you believe was the Greatest US President?
Post by: ozz on June 01, 2012, 11:23:50 AM
Quote from: MightyGiants on June 01, 2012, 09:57:15 AM
In my life time;

Bill Clinton-  8 years of peace and prosperity along with turning record deficits into record surplus can't be beat

Historically, pick one:

Lincoln-  Successfully guided our nation through a civil war

FDR-   Brought our nation out of the Great Depression and guided the nation through a world war

Washington-  He had a huge impact on the office and our nation.   He did a lot that set precedence that is still followed today.

I generally agree with everything said in this post.
Title: Re: NFT: Who do you believe was the Greatest US President?
Post by: babywhales on June 01, 2012, 12:25:01 PM
In my lifetime I would have to go with Clinton, provided the most prosperity, drove the infrastructure that is still driving our ecopnomy all while reducing spending and lowering the deficit. 

Overall
Washington, FDR and Lincoln would certianly sitck out. 

I have often read it argued that just behind Washignton and Lincoln was McKinley.  He was a massively beloved President in his own time. He tackled tuff isues and surrounded himself with so many top notch people his "appoinment tree" shaped American politics for a half a century.  I think his second term was the first election Dasher voted in?

I was always partial to Harrison for sticking up to the robberbarins and crafting and passing the Shermon Trust Act one the most monumental legislations of multiple centuries creating a paradim shift in US capitalistic approach.  He did have many issues though so I would never call him the greatest.


 
Title: Re: NFT: Who do you believe was the Greatest US President?
Post by: ElioverPeyton on June 01, 2012, 12:39:45 PM
My favorite is Washington. Without him (and others) we have nothing!

As far as Presidents in my live time......NONE! They are ALL political hacks (and controlled) that don't give a damn about it's citizens!
Title: Re: NFT: Who do you believe was the Greatest US President?
Post by: JimboWHO on June 01, 2012, 12:40:26 PM
The historical record says that Bill Clinton presided over very good economy.  Exactly what policies he pursued to help bring that about isn't exactly clear.  Economic activity and the financial markets resembled a cadaver's EKG for his first two years and then the GOP swept into power in the house and Clinton pivoted with his famous remark "the era of big government is over."

From that point Moon Shot - the economy took off and the stock market zoomed. Clinton was forced to adhere to the spending caps put in place by House Republicans and he signed the Republican welfare reform bill.  Clinton also had the good fortune during his presidency to see the development of the Internet - a technological boom unlike anything we've seen before. 

Our president was soiling intern's dresses?  No problem - our 401(k)s were all marching higher and higher.

Unlike our current president who is a true believer, Clinton had the wisdom to see the handwriting on the wall and govern from the center for much of his presidency.  I do give him credit for that.


JJM
Title: Re: NFT: Who do you believe was the Greatest US President?
Post by: LennG on June 01, 2012, 01:00:21 PM

Without a doubt, it has to be Abraham Lincoln.

After him FDR

JFK

Clinton
Title: Re: NFT: Who do you believe was the Greatest US President?
Post by: madbadger on June 01, 2012, 01:17:18 PM
You guys realize that Lincoln was, for all intents and purposes, a tyrant. He saved the union and freed the slaves but he also stripped American citizens of their right to Habeus Corpus which allowed him to hold critics of his administration without due process. He also stripped some American citizens of their right to a jury trial and replaced it with military tribunals. Often those tribunals were so stacked in the governments favor that the defendant had no chance of being exonerated. Hundreds of citizens were sent to their deaths at the hands of those tribunals.

Lincoln was a complex man, both good and bad, but there is no way that a man who shredded the bill of rights and repudiated the ideas espoused in the Declaration of Independence should go down as our greatest President. I'd take Jefferson, Washington, Adams, Teddy Rex, Truman and Reagan before I'd even begin to consider where to place Lincoln.
Title: Re: NFT: Who do you believe was the Greatest US President?
Post by: JimboWHO on June 01, 2012, 01:32:28 PM
http://www.gallup.com/poll/146183/americans-say-reagan-greatest-president.aspx (http://www.gallup.com/poll/146183/americans-say-reagan-greatest-president.aspx)

Here's one of the most current polls done by Gallup.

1- Reagan
2- Lincoln
3- Clinton


JJM
Title: Re: NFT: Who do you believe was the Greatest US President?
Post by: files58 on June 01, 2012, 01:33:16 PM
What made Reagan in the eyes of some a great president?
Title: Re: NFT: Who do you believe was the Greatest US President?
Post by: murderhill on June 01, 2012, 01:38:11 PM
Ed, I agree this belongs on the back porch, I also agree with Jersey guy that we haven't seen a great president yet.  Some were close to greatness but had their imperfections.  Actually most presidents were great/good in some ways and awful in others.  The founding "fathers" left a lot to be desired in the constitution and so many presidents prior to Lincoln were elected to protect the slave based ecconomy of the south.  A bunch of corrupt cowardly southern puppets.  Some were progressive presidents meant that there was a perceived flaw in the Amerian culture (all sorts of rights that needed correction; ending slavery, voting, civil and equality. Correcting the inequalities of poverty including health, housing, minimum incomes, nutrition and education, public roads) and eventually correcting perceived flaws around the globe.  These presidents used government, laws, military force (and if necessary, funded by taxes) to make corrections.   Conservatives?  my caveat is always "what exactly is being conserved?".  Administrators. Populists and Idealists.  There's more, like forgetable, corporate whores or the worst president for example. I'll make a long story short.
My classifications:
Almost great:  FDR, Lincoln (because he hunted vampires when he was a young man), and Washington
Title: Re: NFT: Who do you believe was the Greatest US President?
Post by: babywhales on June 01, 2012, 01:49:15 PM
Quote from: files58 on June 01, 2012, 01:33:16 PM
What made Reagan in the eyes of some a great president?

When he died there were two very different approaches toward remembering his tenure in office.  He was the greatest and the he was just Ok.  Depends on your other believes and what you value.
Title: Re: NFT: Who do you believe was the Greatest US President?
Post by: JimboWHO on June 01, 2012, 01:52:53 PM
Quote from: madbadger on June 01, 2012, 01:17:18 PM
You guys realize that Lincoln was, for all intents and purposes, a tyrant. He saved the union and freed the slaves but he also stripped American citizens of their right to Habeus Corpus which allowed him to hold critics of his administration without due process. He also stripped some American citizens of their right to a jury trial and replaced it with military tribunals. Often those tribunals were so stacked in the governments favor that the defendant had no chance of being exonerated. Hundreds of citizens were sent to their deaths at the hands of those tribunals.

Lincoln was a complex man, both good and bad, but there is no way that a man who shredded the bill of rights and repudiated the ideas espoused in the Declaration of Independence should go down as our greatest President. I'd take Jefferson, Washington, Adams, Teddy Rex, Truman and Reagan before I'd even begin to consider where to place Lincoln.


The citizens' right to habeas corpus was protected but for the existence of a rebellion - the language in the Constitution was clear.  Lincoln relied upon that language and the fact that the fate of the U.S. hung in the balance.  The laws of war are different and the president-commander in chief must be allowed extraordinary latitude to interpret and use these laws as he sees fit.  This is how Lincoln, correctly it turns out, saw it.

We're talking about the bloodiest conflict this country ever fought, with outright rebellion in several key states.  Expecting some perfect human rights track record during what was likely the first incident of total war is naive.


JJM
Title: Re: NFT: Who do you believe was the Greatest US President?
Post by: JimboWHO on June 01, 2012, 02:02:06 PM
Quote from: babywhales on June 01, 2012, 01:49:15 PM
Quote from: files58 on June 01, 2012, 01:33:16 PM
What made Reagan in the eyes of some a great president?

When he died there were two very different approaches toward remembering his tenure in office.  He was the greatest and the he was just Ok.  Depends on your other believes and what you value.

Indeed.  Americans who are independents or conservatives correctly labeled Reagan as great or "near great"

The Left was responsible for the "just OK" label.


JJM
Title: Re: NFT: Who do you believe was the Greatest US President?
Post by: babywhales on June 01, 2012, 02:04:09 PM
Quote from: JimboWHO on June 01, 2012, 02:02:06 PM
Quote from: babywhales on June 01, 2012, 01:49:15 PM
Quote from: files58 on June 01, 2012, 01:33:16 PM
What made Reagan in the eyes of some a great president?

When he died there were two very different approaches toward remembering his tenure in office.  He was the greatest and the he was just Ok.  Depends on your other believes and what you value.

Indeed.  Americans who are independents or conservatives correctly labeled Reagan as great or "near great"

The Left was responsible for the "just OK" label.


JJM

I would leave out the statment suggesting the independents simply side with Reagan and leave out the judegment i.e. "correctly"  but agree with everything else.

Having participated in the Back Porch for too many threads to count over countless years, those little extras on the judgements are what starts everything off on the wrong foot.
Title: Re: NFT: Who do you believe was the Greatest US President?
Post by: tomeee on June 01, 2012, 02:05:43 PM
What's the over / under on post counts until this thread gets locked or disappears.
Title: Re: NFT: Who do you believe was the Greatest US President?
Post by: murderhill on June 01, 2012, 02:14:46 PM
Quote from: tomeee on June 01, 2012, 02:05:43 PM
What's the over / under on post counts until this thread gets locked or disappears.
This one
Title: NFT: Who do you believe was the Greatest US President?
Post by: vette5573 on June 01, 2012, 02:18:28 PM
Quote from: murderhill on June 01, 2012, 02:14:46 PM
Quote from: tomeee on June 01, 2012, 02:05:43 PM
What's the over / under on post counts until this thread gets locked or disappears.
This one

Nah, I'm leaving it up for a while and I just asked the guys not to delete any content within reason.

Title: Re: NFT: Who do you believe was the Greatest US President?
Post by: babywhales on June 01, 2012, 02:24:04 PM
Quote from: vette on June 01, 2012, 02:18:28 PM
Quote from: murderhill on June 01, 2012, 02:14:46 PM
Quote from: tomeee on June 01, 2012, 02:05:43 PM
What's the over / under on post counts until this thread gets locked or disappears.
This one

Nah, I'm leaving it up for a while and I just asked the guys not to delete any content within reason.

It is a bold move as religotics gets infused into everything in the US in 2012.  But I used to enjoy the backporch and look forward to seeing something being able to take hold. Best of Luck. 
Title: Re: NFT: Who do you believe was the Greatest US President?
Post by: JimboWHO on June 01, 2012, 02:25:22 PM
Quote from: murderhill on June 01, 2012, 01:38:11 PM
Ed, I agree this belongs on the back porch, I also agree with Jersey guy that we haven't seen a great president yet.  Some were close to greatness but had their imperfections.  Actually most presidents were great/good in some ways and awful in others.  The founding "fathers" left a lot to be desired in the constitution and so many presidents prior to Lincoln were elected to protect the slave based ecconomy of the south.  A bunch of corrupt cowardly southern puppets.  Some were progressive presidents meant that there was a perceived flaw in the Amerian culture (all sorts of rights that needed correction; ending slavery, voting, civil and equality. Correcting the inequalities of poverty including health, housing, minimum incomes, nutrition and education, public roads) and eventually correcting perceived flaws around the globe.  These presidents used government, laws, military force (and if necessary, funded by taxes) to make corrections.   Conservatives?  my caveat is always "what exactly is being conserved?".  Administrators. Populists and Idealists.  There's more, like forgetable, corporate whores or the worst president for example. I'll make a long story short.
My classifications:
Almost great:  FDR, Lincoln (because he hunted vampires when he was a young man), and Washington
Title: Re: NFT: Who do you believe was the Greatest US President?
Post by: bldevil on June 01, 2012, 03:05:38 PM
1 vote for Thomas Jefferson, author of the Declaration of Independence.  The philosophical father our our country.

When Jerry Reese retires, maybe he can become President.  But I hope he just stays GM for a long time. :)
Title: Re: NFT: Who do you believe was the Greatest US President?
Post by: BlueMoshik on June 01, 2012, 03:44:19 PM
Best Hair: Andrew Jackson

Second best: JFK

Worst Dye Job: Ronald Reagan

Best jokes: Tie between Reagan and Gerald Ford.

Funniest pronunciation of the word "nuclear": Jimmy Carter

Second funniest: George Dubya Bush

Most soothing voice: FDR

Best at holding down his drink: Warren G. Harding

Best at working a hidden tape recorder: Richard M Nixon


Title: Re: NFT: Who do you believe was the Greatest US President?
Post by: vette5573 on June 01, 2012, 03:54:03 PM
Quote from: BlueMoshik on June 01, 2012, 03:44:19 PM
Best Hair: Andrew Jackson

Second best: JFK

Worst Dye Job: Ronald Reagan

Best jokes: Tie between Reagan and Gerald Ford.

Funniest pronunciation of the word "nuclear": Jimmy Carter

Second funniest: George Dubya Bush

Most soothing voice: FDR

Best at holding down his drink: Warren G. Harding

Best at working a hidden tape recorder: Richard M Nixon




:ok: There you go! Have fun with it.

Maybe a question should have been who was the most under-rated President. I like the McKinley story.
Title: Re: NFT: Who do you believe was the Greatest US President?
Post by: bamagiantfan on June 01, 2012, 04:19:30 PM
Quote from: vette on June 01, 2012, 02:18:28 PM
Quote from: murderhill on June 01, 2012, 02:14:46 PM
Quote from: tomeee on June 01, 2012, 02:05:43 PM
What's the over / under on post counts until this thread gets locked or disappears.
This one

Nah, I'm leaving it up for a while and I just asked the guys not to delete any content within reason.

I guess mine wasn't reasonable then? Factually accurate, certainly, but apparrently unresaonable.
Title: Re: NFT: Who do you believe was the Greatest US President?
Post by: bamagiantfan on June 01, 2012, 04:21:13 PM
Quote from: bldevil on June 01, 2012, 03:05:38 PM
1 vote for Thomas Jefferson, author of the Declaration of Independence.  The philosophical father our our country.

=D> Amazing that it took so long for that name to come up.
Title: Re: NFT: Who do you believe was the Greatest US President?
Post by: nb587 on June 01, 2012, 04:22:51 PM
Funny thing about Reagan being so well liked today, I think, is that many on the right don't really know his Presidency as well as they should. For one, he raised taxes many times and spent far more money than the country took in adding massively to the deficit and debt, but, to his credit, compromised often and socialized with Democrats (not like what is happening today).  He was also strongly in favor of reducing nuclear stockpiles.  What sticks in my mind the most though is that he sent the Marines into Lebanon on a questionable mission and when the Marine barracks were blown up and about 240 Marines were killed, within a very short time, maybe a few days, he evacuated the troops.  If that's not cutting and running, I don't know what is and can you imagine what would be said by the right if that happened today?

I think that if Reagan ran on his record today for the nomination that Romney won, he would have problems because he would be too moderate but most of those who love him now don't know or understand history.   
Title: Re: NFT: Who do you believe was the Greatest US President?
Post by: bamagiantfan on June 01, 2012, 04:29:41 PM
Quote from: nb587 on June 01, 2012, 04:22:51 PM
Funny thing about Reagan being so well liked today, I think, is that many on the right don't really know his Presidency as well as they should. For one, he raised taxes many times and spent far more money than the country took in adding massively to the deficit and debt, but, to his credit, compromised often and socialized with Democrats (not like what is happening today).  He was also strongly in favor of reducing nuclear stockpiles.  What sticks in my mind the most though is that he sent the Marines into Lebanon on a questionable mission and when the Marine barracks were blown up and about 240 Marines were killed, within a very short time, maybe a few days, he evacuated the troops.  If that's not cutting and running, I don't know what is and can you imagine what would be said by the right if that happened today?

I think that if Reagan ran on his record today for the nomination that Romney won, he would have problems because he would be too moderate but most of those who love him now don't know or understand history.

I've already tried to make this point a similar post which was taken down. I agree, Reagan was and is remembered much differrently after his Presidency than he was during it.
Title: Re: NFT: Who do you believe was the Greatest US President?
Post by: AZGiantFan on June 01, 2012, 04:45:13 PM
IMO Washington was the greatest American, but Lincoln was the greatest President.

In my lifetime I'd put Reagan at #1 with Ike a very close #2.
Title: Re: NFT: Who do you believe was the Greatest US President?
Post by: vette5573 on June 01, 2012, 04:48:33 PM
Quote from: bamagiantfan on June 01, 2012, 04:19:30 PM
Quote from: vette on June 01, 2012, 02:18:28 PM
Quote from: murderhill on June 01, 2012, 02:14:46 PM
Quote from: tomeee on June 01, 2012, 02:05:43 PM
What's the over / under on post counts until this thread gets locked or disappears.
This one

Nah, I'm leaving it up for a while and I just asked the guys not to delete any content within reason.

I guess mine wasn't reasonable then? Factually accurate, certainly, but apparrently unresaonable.

I'm sorry Bama. That was done before I brought the others in the loop. It's all my fault. Please put it back up if you like. Just read the OP before you do. Thanks, Ed
Title: Re: NFT: Who do you believe was the Greatest US President?
Post by: bamagiantfan on June 01, 2012, 05:03:05 PM
No worries Ed. I had thrown out a statement about poitical party and that may have killed it. The point was made by another as well so no need to repost.

Title: Re: NFT: Who do you believe was the Greatest US President?
Post by: drakew on June 01, 2012, 05:12:47 PM
"I think the recent Prez who has had the greatest impact on America was JFK. He started the Moon Shot program, which gave us microprocessors, chips, computers, satellite tech and all the gadgetry we enjoy today. He beat the Reds at their own game, and changed th3e science of the world as we know it"
Title: Re: NFT: Who do you believe was the Greatest US President?
Post by: babywhales on June 01, 2012, 05:18:14 PM
Quote from: nb587 on June 01, 2012, 04:22:51 PM
For one, he raised taxes many times and spent far more money than the country took in adding massively to the deficit and debt, but, to his credit, compromised often and socialized with Democrats (not like what is happening today). 

Cut it on 3 occasions but raised taxes 11 times.
Title: Re: NFT: Who do you believe was the Greatest US President?
Post by: weeze on June 01, 2012, 05:22:28 PM
 Jefferson Davis  :D
Title: Re: NFT: Who do you believe was the Greatest US President?
Post by: Jian on June 01, 2012, 05:40:29 PM
Quote from: JimboWHO on June 01, 2012, 01:52:53 PM
Quote from: madbadger on June 01, 2012, 01:17:18 PM
You guys realize that Lincoln was, for all intents and purposes, a tyrant. He saved the union and freed the slaves but he also stripped American citizens of their right to Habeus Corpus which allowed him to hold critics of his administration without due process. He also stripped some American citizens of their right to a jury trial and replaced it with military tribunals. Often those tribunals were so stacked in the governments favor that the defendant had no chance of being exonerated. Hundreds of citizens were sent to their deaths at the hands of those tribunals.

Lincoln was a complex man, both good and bad, but there is no way that a man who shredded the bill of rights and repudiated the ideas espoused in the Declaration of Independence should go down as our greatest President. I'd take Jefferson, Washington, Adams, Teddy Rex, Truman and Reagan before I'd even begin to consider where to place Lincoln.


The citizens' right to habeas corpus was protected but for the existence of a rebellion - the language in the Constitution was clear.  Lincoln relied upon that language and the fact that the fate of the U.S. hung in the balance.  The laws of war are different and the president-commander in chief must be allowed extraordinary latitude to interpret and use these laws as he sees fit.  This is how Lincoln, correctly it turns out, saw it.

We're talking about the bloodiest conflict this country ever fought, with outright rebellion in several key states.  Expecting some perfect human rights track record during what was likely the first incident of total war is naive.


JJM

As you can see this is what divides people about Lincoln. I believe he was the Best of all the President's, followed by G. Washington. Most of the presidents since Truman have stunk IMO. It's been mostly a steady decline since Truman ......
Title: Re: NFT: Who do you believe was the Greatest US President?
Post by: The12th man on June 01, 2012, 05:46:55 PM
Clinton - a balanced buget, no wars and he gets a BJ...who could asked for anything more?!!!
Title: Re: NFT: Who do you believe was the Greatest US President?
Post by: weeze on June 01, 2012, 05:47:55 PM
well i like obama even if hes stuck in a rough spot but generally i agree with jian. starting the big decline with nixon.
but my fave would have to be, and i know the 12th man would agree, jeb bartlett. now that was a great president. to bad it was a fictitious tv character.
Title: Re: NFT: Who do you believe was the Greatest US President?
Post by: weeze on June 01, 2012, 05:49:43 PM
see? who said someone that races a mazda didnt have his priorities straight?
Title: Re: NFT: Who do you believe was the Greatest US President?
Post by: gregf on June 01, 2012, 05:56:40 PM
I worked with my son on a Adams report. He wrote the Massachussettes constitution which became a template for our current one 236 years later(even though Jefferson gets most of the credit). This may be the single greatest contribution ever to our beloved country. I really respect the war presidents Washington, Lincoln, and FDR. What nags at me about Reagan is adressing the nation as our debt went ovee 1 trillion, called it just a number.  That number is now about 13 trillion that future generations will be burdened with. Only Clinton showed progress with this. As the worlds only super power, we wont maintain this status if we arent strong financialy.
Title: Re: NFT: Who do you believe was the Greatest US President?
Post by: vette5573 on June 01, 2012, 06:03:05 PM
Quote from: gregf on June 01, 2012, 05:56:40 PM
I worked with my son on a Adams report. He wrote the Massachussettes constitution which became a template for our current one 236 years later(even though Jefferson gets most of the credit). This may be the single greatest contribution ever to our beloved country. I really respect the war presidents Washington, Lincoln, and FDR. What nags at me about Reagan is adressing the nation as our debt went ovee 1 trillion, called it just a number.  That number is now about 13 trillion that future generations will be burdened with. Only Clinton showed progress with this. As the worlds only super power, we wont maintain this status if we arent strong financialy.

Did you happen to see this movie series on Adams. He and Jefferson died on the same day July 4th. I really enjoyed this series.
Title: Re: NFT: Who do you believe was the Greatest US President?
Post by: gregf on June 01, 2012, 06:15:54 PM
I read about that, but didnt see the series. Whats it called?
Title: Re: NFT: Who do you believe was the Greatest US President?
Post by: Chris on June 01, 2012, 06:37:33 PM
Quote from: gregf on June 01, 2012, 06:15:54 PM
I read about that, but didnt see the series. Whats it called?

Greg, it was called - aptly - John Adams. It was on HBO, starring Paul Giamatti. Excellent!

I would say greatest and my favorite would be Washington. If anyone is interested, His Excellency is a recommended read.

Greatest in my lifetime - kind of like the tallest midget - would be Clinton.
Title: Re: NFT: Who do you believe was the Greatest US President?
Post by: joeynygiants on June 01, 2012, 06:54:37 PM
Lincolin because he keep the union together.

Wilson has to be second for he was right, if the league of nation has made after the 1st world war, the second world war maybe wouldn't have happen.

fdr = he was truly remarkable for he was disable and did a whale of a job.

ronald reagan - he help shut down the soviet union.

truman - he have to follow fdr and had to drop the bomb, but it did save millions of us lives, just it was a terrible weapon.


Title: Re: NFT: Who do you believe was the Greatest US President?
Post by: bldevil on June 01, 2012, 07:04:15 PM
Quote from: Chris on June 01, 2012, 06:37:33 PM
Quote from: gregf on June 01, 2012, 06:15:54 PM
I read about that, but didnt see the series. Whats it called?

Greg, it was called - aptly - John Adams. It was on HBO, starring Paul Giamatti. Excellent!

I would say greatest and my favorite would be Washington. If anyone is interested, His Excellency is a recommended read.

Greatest in my lifetime - kind of like the tallest midget - would be Clinton.
Thumbs up on that series.  There's a great scence in which we see Ben Franklin playing chess in a bathtub in France.  (He's not alone, of course.)
Title: Re: NFT: Who do you believe was the Greatest US President?
Post by: ElioverPeyton on June 01, 2012, 07:05:57 PM
So what does everyone think of our current president?

I'll go first.....has to be the worst in history!!!
Title: Re: NFT: Who do you believe was the Greatest US President?
Post by: Chris on June 01, 2012, 07:12:04 PM
Quote from: ElioverPeyton on June 01, 2012, 07:05:57 PM
So what does everyone think of our current president?

I'll go first.....has to be the worst in history!!!

And there it is.

Can a lockdown be far behind?

It's probably not a bad idea.
Title: Re: NFT: Who do you believe was the Greatest US President?
Post by: murderhill on June 01, 2012, 07:43:44 PM
QuoteRather than correct you on the many errors and conclusions you incorrectly (IMHO) come to I 'll ask you just this:

Assuming you voted for Obama (and If I'm wrong I'll stand corrected),  you state that Reagan, as a former successful two-term Governor of the largest state in the nation was "unqualified" to be president.

How can your community organizer who has never run anything, never met a payroll, never been responsible for the safety of others be more qualified to be president than Reagan?

Answer: He can't.  And you are seeing the results.


JJM
Voted for Obama?  I admit it
Title: Re: NFT: Who do you believe was the Greatest US President?
Post by: LennG on June 01, 2012, 08:35:56 PM
 Let's keep current politics out of this.

Some one mentioned Jefferson. Was he that good of a president. Yes, he was a great American, but didn't he do most of his grandeur things before he became president??> What did he do as president to have such a high rating to some??

Also some one mentioned Ike. Now there is a name that hardly gets any credit, but overall, he was a great president. He establish our nation of interstate highways, all over the country. Fact about the interstates. When Ike went ahead with this project, he had it mandatory that for every 3 miles of interstate, one of those miles had to be a completely straight road, NO MATTER what or where. The reasoning behind that was that if we were ever attacked, all planes would have a place to land every 3 miles because there would be a mile of straight road.

I would also give a big holler for Truman. He may never go down as a great president, but to me he was just that. His decision the drop the A Bomb saved maybe a million American lives on the battlefield and started what we now know as the Atomic Age. If he didn't have the guts to do what he did, the entire world might be a different place today--  good or bad
Title: Re: NFT: Who do you believe was the Greatest US President?
Post by: ElioverPeyton on June 01, 2012, 09:19:01 PM
Quote from: Chris on June 01, 2012, 07:12:04 PM
Quote from: ElioverPeyton on June 01, 2012, 07:05:57 PM
So what does everyone think of our current president?

I'll go first.....has to be the worst in history!!!

And there it is.

Can a lockdown be far behind?

It's probably not a bad idea.

Wow! This coming from someone who says G. Washington is his favorite president!

Because I don't like our current president you think it's a good idea to silence someone?  :boooo:  What happened to Freedom of Speech!?!?!

You sound alot like this HS teacher from NC!

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/05/20/NC-teacher-screams-student-Obama (http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/05/20/NC-teacher-screams-student-Obama)
Title: Re: NFT: Who do you believe was the Greatest US President?
Post by: JimboWHO on June 01, 2012, 09:34:07 PM
Quote from: ElioverPeyton on June 01, 2012, 07:05:57 PM
So what does everyone think of our current president?

I'll go first.....has to be the worst in history!!!

+ (a big number)

JJM
Title: Re: NFT: Who do you believe was the Greatest US President?
Post by: Chris on June 01, 2012, 10:09:44 PM
Quote from: ElioverPeyton on June 01, 2012, 09:19:01 PM
Wow! This coming from someone who says G. Washington is his favorite president!

Because I don't like our current president you think it's a good idea to silence someone?  :boooo:  What happened to Freedom of Speech!?!?!

You sound alot like this HS teacher from NC!

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/05/20/NC-teacher-screams-student-Obama (http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/05/20/NC-teacher-screams-student-Obama)

Who's supressing your freedom of speech? You already said you don't like Obama. I didn't report your post as offensive or push to delete it. You have every right to feel however you feel. You have no idea what side of the fence I'm on and I would prefer to keep it that way.

My issue with your post was that with threads like this it invariably degenerates into something that no one intended. The thread wasn't about Greatest and Worst Presidents but it always seems to go there. And it's only downhill from that point. That's what I was commenting on.

That said, I shouldn't have commented on your post at all and for that I apologize.
Title: Re: NFT: Who do you believe was the Greatest US President?
Post by: jimv on June 01, 2012, 11:56:47 PM
Lenny, I'll give ONE achievement that Jefferson had as President - THE LOUISIANA PURCHASE!

Ike's Interstate Highway system was actually built for the fast movement of military vehicles.  When the law was passed, it said the the military had first claim on the system.  I don't know if that's been rescinded or not.  If not, in a time of national emergency, I think the military could just claim the use for themselves.  I served my four years of active USAF duty during Ike's time as president.  I was stationed on a SAC base & we were knee deep in the Cold War.
Title: Re: NFT: Who do you believe was the Greatest US President?
Post by: Jian on June 02, 2012, 12:13:24 AM
 And if my memory serves T. Jefferson was the president that authorized Lewis & Clark for their expedition. Once you left the colonies you were in the wild. We're talking Ohio & Kentucky as the wilderness at that time .... That was someting that required foresight, and thought. No doubt he was a great American. As a great president he's 3rd or 4th on my list. ..... Of course, one of the colonies major nemesis at that time, was Tecumseh. Also a true American, no doubt a man among men. Back when most white men could not read, he could. During the French and Indian Wars, G. Washington was a Colonel. Tecumseh became a General in the British Army. To the best on my knowledge Tecumseh was the ONLY non Brit to attain the rank of General. What does that say about Americans ......(Dun bother me, I'm still decidin)

PS even though I choose to live up North I'm a born and raised American ....
 

[qu ote author=jimv link=topic=21377.msg245792#msg245792 date=1338609407]
Lenny, I'll give ONE achievement that Jefferson had as President - THE LOUISIANA PURCHASE!

Ike's Interstate Highway system was actually built for the fast movement of military vehicles.  When the law was passed, it said the the military had first claim on the system.  I don't know if that's been rescinded or not.  If not, in a time of national emergency, I think the military could just claim the use for themselves.  I served my four years of active USAF duty during Ike's time as president.  I was stationed on a SAC base & we were knee deep in the Cold War.
[/quote]
Title: Re: NFT: Who do you believe was the Greatest US President?
Post by: AZGiantFan on June 02, 2012, 12:38:57 AM
Quote from: gregf on June 01, 2012, 05:56:40 PM
I worked with my son on a Adams report. He wrote the Massachussettes constitution which became a template for our current one 236 years later(even though Jefferson gets most of the credit).


Jefferson had nothing to do with the writing of the Constitution.  He wasn't even in the country at the time of the Constitutional Convention - he was ambassador to France at the time and was in Paris.  And when he got back he wasn't very happy with it.  You are confusing the Constitution with the Declaration of Independence.  If anyone can be said to have been the author of the Constitution it would be James Madison, with its philosophical father being the English philosopher Edmund Burke.
Title: Re: NFT: Who do you believe was the Greatest US President?
Post by: babywhales on June 02, 2012, 12:43:09 AM
Jefferson created United States Military Academy at West Point
Title: Re: NFT: Who do you believe was the Greatest US President?
Post by: Jian on June 02, 2012, 12:48:59 AM
 and just to stir things up some more for this new non political - political category........

Obama is not the first president to raise the question of whether or not he is a genuine US citizen...... back in the day there was many a frontier fistfight over Andrew Jackson birth papers ........ at least that was a time that you'd figure it would be hard to trace .....
Title: Re: NFT: Who do you believe was the Greatest US President?
Post by: worf49 on June 02, 2012, 12:53:42 AM
Thomas Jefferson would be my choice.

As an aside our first International War was The Barbary Wars.  Guess who good people?  Yep, our old buddies the Arab Jihadist were killing our sailors and looting our ships and a spineless Congress was paying a bounty the Arabs, until Jefferson took over and created a powerful Navy.

He then loaded the ships with Marines and they sailed over to Algeria, Tunis, Morocco, and Libya and kicked total butt.

Jefferson also had read The koran and told everyone this was a violent murderous religion and America had better be on guard.

Title: Re: NFT: Who do you believe was the Greatest US President?
Post by: Jian on June 02, 2012, 01:04:42 AM
 All true, at least according to history Worf. Not to worry I'm basing my account off of the same victors lol

. I'm only an amatuer historian, but America can be such an interesting subject historywise. That doesn't even begin to cover American football .........
Title: Re: NFT: Who do you believe was the Greatest US President?
Post by: Sem on June 02, 2012, 07:39:34 AM
Quote from: Jian on June 02, 2012, 12:48:59 AM
  Obama is not the first president to raise the question of whether or not he is a genuine US citizen.
Obama didn't raise the question, the idiot birthers did.  Its obvious to me that facts didn't matter, it was all simply a feeble attempt at political gain. Trump, on the other hand, has his own motives for continuing this nonsense.   
Title: Re: NFT: Who do you believe was the Greatest US President?
Post by: tomeee on June 02, 2012, 08:40:27 AM
So mod's are you going to report your grades of this experiment.

I give it a D minus.
Title: Re: NFT: Who do you believe was the Greatest US President?
Post by: MightyGiants on June 02, 2012, 08:44:10 AM
Quote from: tomeee on June 02, 2012, 08:40:27 AM
So mod's are you going to report your grades of this experiment.

I give it a D minus.

That's about what I would give it. 
Title: Re: NFT: Who do you believe was the Greatest US President?
Post by: bamagiantfan on June 02, 2012, 09:06:45 AM
In fairness, it is consistent with most topics we've had in recent months that fail to remain on topic once they get past the 3rd or 4th post. We've all played various parts in that.

I wouldn't grade it as low as a "D minus". I've learned a little from some of the posts and there is some good insight and fact amid the detours, but the topic belongs on a different board.
Title: Re: NFT: Who do you believe was the Greatest US President?
Post by: BlueMoshik on June 02, 2012, 09:07:45 AM
Quote from: CAGiantFan on June 02, 2012, 12:38:57 AM
If anyone can be said to have been the author of the Constitution it would be James Madison, with its philosophical father being the English philosopher Edmund Burke.

That's right about Madison. But I believe you are thinking of John Locke, not Edmund Burke.


Title: Re: NFT: Who do you believe was the Greatest US President?
Post by: BlueMoshik on June 02, 2012, 09:08:32 AM
A couple of folks deserve a D maybe. The rest of us deserve much higher. Give credit where it's due.
Title: Re: NFT: Who do you believe was the Greatest US President?
Post by: LennG on June 02, 2012, 10:03:17 AM
 A ++++++++++++++
Title: Re: NFT: Who do you believe was the Greatest US President?
Post by: JimboWHO on June 02, 2012, 10:30:42 AM
Quote from: nygsem on June 02, 2012, 07:39:34 AM
Quote from: Jian on June 02, 2012, 12:48:59 AM
  Obama is not the first president to raise the question of whether or not he is a genuine US citizen.
Obama didn't raise the question, the idiot birthers did.  Its obvious to me that facts didn't matter, it was all simply a feeble attempt at political gain. Trump, on the other hand, has his own motives for continuing this nonsense.

Actually, this is not true.

Obama signed with a publishing agency Acton & Dystel in 1991.  He was recruited to write his first book.  At this time the agency assembled a promotional booklet featuring Obama and 80 or 90 other writers in their "stable".  This 36 page booklet contained a bio on each author.  Here's Obama's, straight from the booklet:


"Barack Obama, the first African-American president of the Harvard Law Review, was born in Kenya and raised in Indonesia and Hawaii. The son of an American anthropologist and a Kenyan finance minister, he attended Columbia University and worked as a financial journalist and editor for Business International Corporation. He served as project coordinator in Harlem for the New York Public Interest Research Group, and was Executive Director of the Developing Communities Project in Chicago
Title: Re: NFT: Who do you believe was the Greatest US President?
Post by: dasher on June 02, 2012, 11:20:44 AM
I think this topic met the mods hidden agenda- can a high road great president discussion ultimately take the low road of partisan politics. Well done.
Title: Re: NFT: Who do you believe was the Greatest US President?
Post by: vette5573 on June 02, 2012, 11:33:14 AM
Here is my take on this thread so far. I think if you read the OP, it was explained clearly so I don't believe there was any hidden agenda here. In one day it's at 5 pages and over 400 reviews. That speaks for itself. Most members seem to agree that this type of NFT doesn't belong on the football forum. History however has shown that it would never have gotten the participation it has gotten if it was on a separate "Current Events" Board.

I purposely chose this topic and gave it specific parameters to see which way it would go and who would take it where. For you newer members who have joined in the last year, we used to have a board called "The Back Porch". On that board, you could discuss anything. It turned into a political board with a clear division in viewpoint. It got nasty many times. Some members left because of it. One or two persons only posted on that board. There were some personal attacks going on there too.

My theory is that just about any current event topic can turn into a heated discussion. It can go downhill very quickly. If you look at the posts on this thread, some members followed the guidelines very clearly. Some expounded and provided some interesting perspective and history. Some didn't and took it where it shouldn't have gone and I believe it's because they didn't experience what went on at the Back Porch.

So the question is, what exactly can be discussed that won't turn into offensive comments that someone is bound not to like?

The other point to bring up is how should this type of forum be moderated? Nobody likes when it's too heavy handed. Somebody though has to be the judge on such topics. If I had to moderate this thread based on the parameters, I either would have had to send out a dozen PM's requesting a tone down or a request to get back on topic or saved myself a ton of time and just deleted the posts. My experience with PM's is that this goes back and forth for days. Nobody, even a retired person has that kind of time.

The subject of debate is also something to be considered. I believe that for such a topic to exist or for such a board to exist, a rule has to be in place. You can state your opinion, you can question someone else's opinion or remark for clarification, but no debates allowed.

All that being said, 5 pages and 400 reviews make this the most participated thread in recent time. Many members enjoyed talking about this. So, if we can stay on topic, not debate, not sway the conversation toward a political agenda or perception, this could actually be an enjoyable discussion.


So, leaving party politics out of the conversation and keeping this void of debate because it's about subjective perspective, who do you believe was the greatest President Of The United States? Then, who was your favorite President? Why?

My personal perspective, I think my reflection of the president has to look at the challenges he faced and how he handled them, his contribution to the people of this country and how history looks back on him.

Were the biggest challenges faced by Washington, Lincoln, FDR, Truman and GW Bush? I want to say Lincoln although he was a white supremest, but it was the mentality of the times.

My favorite would be Adams, Jefferson and Clinton. I would actually like to have a beer with Bill Clinton.
Title: Re: NFT: Who do you believe was the Greatest US President?
Post by: JimboWHO on June 02, 2012, 11:33:59 AM
Quote from: dasher on June 02, 2012, 11:20:44 AM
I think this topic met the mods hidden agenda- can a high road great president discussion ultimately take the low road of partisan politics. Well done.

Where's the low road?

All I've seen is lively but largely polite discussion.  Opinions are shared and facts are supplied. 

I agree with LENN... A+++++


JJM

PS  The Mighty One does a great job but how many times are we really gonna kick around Barden's prospects, Osi's fate and who the starting Mike will be??
Title: Re: NFT: Who do you believe was the Greatest US President?
Post by: nb587 on June 02, 2012, 12:36:26 PM
I agree with Jimbo. This has been a pretty civil and interesting conversation. It did go off topic slightly but not crazy and personally I don't get offended by heated conversation and I suspect most don't either.  I'm dying to ask one of the posters if he has been off his meds but am resisting.
Title: Re: NFT: Who do you believe was the Greatest US President?
Post by: madbadger on June 02, 2012, 12:36:40 PM
Quote from: nygsem on June 02, 2012, 07:39:34 AM
Quote from: Jian on June 02, 2012, 12:48:59 AM
  Obama is not the first president to raise the question of whether or not he is a genuine US citizen.
Obama didn't raise the question, the idiot birthers did.  Its obvious to me that facts didn't matter, it was all simply a feeble attempt at political gain. Trump, on the other hand, has his own motives for continuing this nonsense.

Interestingly enough the first person to question is the President was a natural born citizen was a Clinton operative who filed a lawsuit in Philadelphia during the Democratic primaries. I get a good laugh when I hear the various talking heads claiming that the whole issue was started by the GOP. For the record I've never bought into that nonsense but in some regards the President made it an issue by not releasing his long form birth certificate until three years later.
Title: Re: NFT: Who do you believe was the Greatest US President?
Post by: vette5573 on June 02, 2012, 12:38:21 PM
Quote from: gregf on June 01, 2012, 06:15:54 PM
I read about that, but didnt see the series. Whats it called?

http://www.ovguide.com/john-adams-9202a8c04000641f8000000006bd7ddd# (http://www.ovguide.com/john-adams-9202a8c04000641f8000000006bd7ddd#)
Title: Re: NFT: Who do you believe was the Greatest US President?
Post by: Chris on June 02, 2012, 01:54:44 PM
Quote from: vette on June 02, 2012, 12:38:21 PM
Quote from: gregf on June 01, 2012, 06:15:54 PM
I read about that, but didnt see the series. Whats it called?

http://www.ovguide.com/john-adams-9202a8c04000641f8000000006bd7ddd# (http://www.ovguide.com/john-adams-9202a8c04000641f8000000006bd7ddd#)

Available through Netflix, if you subscribe to that service.

Highly recommended.
Title: Re: NFT: Who do you believe was the Greatest US President?
Post by: AZGiantFan on June 02, 2012, 02:20:31 PM
Quote from: BlueMoshik on June 02, 2012, 09:07:45 AM
Quote from: CAGiantFan on June 02, 2012, 12:38:57 AM
If anyone can be said to have been the author of the Constitution it would be James Madison, with its philosophical father being the English philosopher Edmund Burke.

That's right about Madison. But I believe you are thinking of John Locke, not Edmund Burke.

You are right - I got them confused.  Thanks for the correction.
Title: Re: NFT: Who do you believe was the Greatest US President?
Post by: AZGiantFan on June 02, 2012, 02:32:53 PM
What brought us all here was a love of football in general and the NY Giants in particular.  In that context it is hard enough to keep everyone on a civil, intelligent plane.  As we have seen, political strife will inevitably result when current event or historical events are discussed.  That damages relationships that are sometimes strained as it is, when we limit ourselves to football.  There are already some people I will look at a little differently, not because of the content of their opinion but because of the way it is expressed.

There are many many places on the internet where non-football discussions occur.  It isn't as if there is a shortage of places where people can spout off about their political beliefs.  Why duplicate that here?  Or at least if we are going to duplicate it, why do so in the midst of the board devoted to the stated purpose of this place?  Having a long thread, even one with some positive aspects, doesn't make it a good thread.  Gresham's law says that bad money drives out good money.  Bad posting drives out good posting.  Quality of posts and threads is more important than quantity.

IMO the experiment has been a failure and should be terminated ASAP before serious damage is done.
Title: Re: NFT: Who do you believe was the Greatest US President?
Post by: gregf on June 02, 2012, 02:57:42 PM
Thanks Vette and Chris for the tip on the Adams series. I will definetly check it out on Net Flix. I enjoyed learning about our highway sustem and some other posts on this thread. I find the whole thing interesting and appropriate in the offseason.  There Re a lot of intelligent and myriad perspectives to learn from.
Title: NFT: Who do you believe was the Greatest US President?
Post by: BlueMoshik on June 02, 2012, 03:03:28 PM
In all honesty, it is impossible, not to mention disingenuous, to make such judgements about our presidents without talking about partisan politics. All these presidents whether one likes them or not are and have been politicians, representatives of political parties. It's like asking who in your view is the best doctor you've ever had but please avoid talking about medicine.

That said, a discussion of partisan politics can be lively without devolving into cheap shots, conspiracy theories, and personal gripes. It can - but not on this thread, alas.
Title: Re: NFT: Who do you believe was the Greatest US President?
Post by: St Marys on June 02, 2012, 03:23:20 PM
Nice "experiment", properly received on the whole, IMHuO.   My input, a perspective from the other side of the Atlantic.   Based purely on what they have done for the world.

Clinton, Reagan, Roosevelt - Northern Ireland and the Balkans, the collapse of the Soviet Union and Communism and isolationist America enters WWII to save the world from Fascism.
Title: Re: NFT: Who do you believe was the Greatest US President?
Post by: XNYrnLA on June 02, 2012, 03:36:01 PM
Game changers through conviction:
Washington
Lincoln
Reagan
Title: Re: NFT: Who do you believe was the Greatest US President?
Post by: murderhill on June 02, 2012, 03:41:48 PM
Quote from: JimboWHO on June 02, 2012, 11:33:59 AM
Quote from: dasher on June 02, 2012, 11:20:44 AM
I think this topic met the mods hidden agenda- can a high road great president discussion ultimately take the low road of partisan politics. Well done.

Where's the low road?

All I've seen is lively but largely polite discussion.  Opinions are shared and facts are supplied. 

I agree with LENN... A+++++


I don't know if we've hit the low road Jimbo but we have gone off topic and partisan and biased opinions have emerged.  Mine for example: my opinion is that Reagan is one of the worst presidents ever.  I know that he is reveared as a great president and I knew that my negative comment would stir up someone or another and you managed to get stirred up.  AND you mistakenly identified Obama as my guy.  A lot of mention about Obama in a thread about greatest president.  How can we include him in this topic?  He's not great by any standard and he's not finished.

The Obama discussion takes us down the low road. 

You made your point regarding the topic on the 1st page Lincoln= greatest, Reagan= favorite   Fine!

Great President?  Just Google the two words and you come up with Lincoln and FDR at the top of most lists.  But Ed asks why.

In reading the comments here it seems that success in warfare is a basis for greatness.  I believe that with the exception of Washington, Jefferson, Madison and FDR, the basis is a false one, does not apply and eliminates them from greatness but Presidents use war and military incursions as a form of foreign policy.  If they are successful, they are also successful at the polls as well.  As a Vietnam war vet I am cynical but this is a tried and true method of getting reelected.

Another reason from commenters as a basis for greatness centers around the written statements that were so inspirational like Jefferson's Declaration of Independence.  "All men are created equal"  well, in Jefferson's case, not black or red men not women, not men without property.  I'm an egalitarian.   That equal stuff is really important to me.  I like the guy but he was a classist and a hypocrite.  Not great.  Madison, Now there was a possible candidate for great President- well he was a slave owner.  Adams was great  Well He actually sold out the french after they assisted us during the revolutionary war. 

The abuse of minorities is one of my measures for declaring a president as not great.  Blacks, Hispanics, Indians, women, Japanese and so on.  Most presidents don't do well here.

Administration!  That's what Presidents are supposed to do.  Yeah!  If a president is a good administrator, runs the operation of government well, mans the cabinet well, appoints unbiased, nonpolitical judges to the high courts, works well with Congress and the Senate, well that's the primary function of a president.  If he does that well, he (or she) belongs on the list of great presidents.  In my life, Clinton and Eisenhower come to mind.  In essence, both were moderate Republicans to me.  Yeah I know, Bill Clinton was a Dem.  I say that if it walks like a duck
Title: Re: NFT: Who do you believe was the Greatest US President?
Post by: vette5573 on June 02, 2012, 04:26:51 PM
Quote from: CAGiantFan on June 02, 2012, 02:32:53 PM
What brought us all here was a love of football in general and the NY Giants in particular.  In that context it is hard enough to keep everyone on a civil, intelligent plane.  As we have seen, political strife will inevitably result when current event or historical events are discussed.  That damages relationships that are sometimes strained as it is, when we limit ourselves to football.  There are already some people I will look at a little differently, not because of the content of their opinion but because of the way it is expressed.

There are many many places on the internet where non-football discussions occur.  It isn't as if there is a shortage of places where people can spout off about their political beliefs.  Why duplicate that here?  Or at least if we are going to duplicate it, why do so in the midst of the board devoted to the stated purpose of this place?  Having a long thread, even one with some positive aspects, doesn't make it a good thread.  Gresham's law says that bad money drives out good money.  Bad posting drives out good posting.  Quality of posts and threads is more important than quantity.

IMO the experiment has been a failure and should be terminated ASAP before serious damage is done.

Rich, it wasn't a failure. It was a learning experience. A lot came out of this trial thread. You see if it's decided and I mean if, that a current events board will be created, we know now exactly what to do to give it any chance of success. Your comment about how you will look at some people is a definite red flag for not having NFT's on the football board.

I happen to agree with a lot of what you said here. Thanks for the input and thanks for everyone else who gave their opinion about this.

I haven't seen any fighting or personal attacks here. That's a positive outcome.

I think it's safe to let it play out. At least for another day.
Title: Re: NFT: Who do you believe was the Greatest US President?
Post by: king of the bronx on June 02, 2012, 05:13:17 PM
Quote from: files58 on June 01, 2012, 01:33:16 PM
What made Reagan in the eyes of some a great president?
Damn if I know, the man was an extreme racist, and dedicated fascist. He had nothing but contempt for people of color, and of middle class and lower in our republic. In spite of his reputation of being a tough guy he ordered Marines to be sent into the middle east, and not to fire a shot. So the enemy drove a truck loaded with explosives right up to the Marine Barracks and killed our solders. The Marines are not an offensive  force they do not go into battle to wait they go into battle to take over and clean up. Ronald Reagan was nothing more than a modern day closet nazi as far as I am concerned, just like many people these days , who hide behind the term of CONSERVATIVE. L ets call a SPADE a SPADE. :ok: :ok: :ok:

Title: Re: NFT: Who do you believe was the Greatest US President?
Post by: king of the bronx on June 02, 2012, 05:17:01 PM
A tie between FDR and Bill Clinton <:-P <:-P <:-P
Title: Re: NFT: Who do you believe was the Greatest US President?
Post by: JimboWHO on June 02, 2012, 05:35:34 PM
Quote from: king of the bronx on June 02, 2012, 05:13:17 PM
Quote from: files58 on June 01, 2012, 01:33:16 PM
What made Reagan in the eyes of some a great president?
Damn if I know, the man was an extreme racist, and dedicated fascist. He had nothing but contempt for people of color, and of middle class and lower in our republic. In spite of his reputation of being a tough guy he ordered Marines to be sent into the middle east, and not to fire a shot. So the enemy drove a truck loaded with explosives right up to the Marine Barracks and killed our solders. The Marines are not an offensive  force they do not go into battle to wait they go into battle to take over and clean up. Ronald Reagan was nothing more than a modern day closet nazi as far as I am concerned, just like many people these days , who hide behind the term of CONSERVATIVE. L ets call a SPADE a SPADE. :ok: :ok: :ok:


The was a poster earlier in this thread (my apologies for not looking up the specifics) who wondered to his himself whether one or two people has mistakenly stopped taking their meds. 


JJM
Title: Re: NFT: Who do you believe was the Greatest US President?
Post by: JimboWHO on June 02, 2012, 05:38:49 PM
Quote from: murderhill on June 02, 2012, 03:41:48 PM
Quote from: JimboWHO on June 02, 2012, 11:33:59 AM
Quote from: dasher on June 02, 2012, 11:20:44 AM
I think this topic met the mods hidden agenda- can a high road great president discussion ultimately take the low road of partisan politics. Well done.

Where's the low road?

All I've seen is lively but largely polite discussion.  Opinions are shared and facts are supplied. 

I agree with LENN... A+++++


I don't know if we've hit the low road Jimbo but we have gone off topic and partisan and biased opinions have emerged.  Mine for example: my opinion is that Reagan is one of the worst presidents ever.  I know that he is reveared as a great president and I knew that my negative comment would stir up someone or another and you managed to get stirred up.  AND you mistakenly identified Obama as my guy.  A lot of mention about Obama in a thread about greatest president.  How can we include him in this topic?  He's not great by any standard and he's not finished.

The Obama discussion takes us down the low road. 

You made your point regarding the topic on the 1st page Lincoln= greatest, Reagan= favorite   Fine!

Great President?  Just Google the two words and you come up with Lincoln and FDR at the top of most lists.  But Ed asks why.

In reading the comments here it seems that success in warfare is a basis for greatness.  I believe that with the exception of Washington, Jefferson, Madison and FDR, the basis is a false one, does not apply and eliminates them from greatness but Presidents use war and military incursions as a form of foreign policy.  If they are successful, they are also successful at the polls as well.  As a Vietnam war vet I am cynical but this is a tried and true method of getting reelected.

Another reason from commenters as a basis for greatness centers around the written statements that were so inspirational like Jefferson's Declaration of Independence.  "All men are created equal"  well, in Jefferson's case, not black or red men not women, not men without property.  I'm an egalitarian.   That equal stuff is really important to me.  I like the guy but he was a classist and a hypocrite.  Not great.  Madison, Now there was a possible candidate for great President- well he was a slave owner.  Adams was great  Well He actually sold out the french after they assisted us during the revolutionary war. 

The abuse of minorities is one of my measures for declaring a president as not great.  Blacks, Hispanics, Indians, women, Japanese and so on.  Most presidents don't do well here.

Administration!  That's what Presidents are supposed to do.  Yeah!  If a president is a good administrator, runs the operation of government well, mans the cabinet well, appoints unbiased, nonpolitical judges to the high courts, works well with Congress and the Senate, well that's the primary function of a president.  If he does that well, he (or she) belongs on the list of great presidents.  In my life, Clinton and Eisenhower come to mind.  In essence, both were moderate Republicans to me.  Yeah I know, Bill Clinton was a Dem.  I say that if it walks like a duck
Title: NFT: Who do you believe was the Greatest US President?
Post by: vette5573 on June 02, 2012, 05:58:38 PM
Quote from: JimboWHO on June 02, 2012, 05:38:49 PM
Quote from: murderhill on June 02, 2012, 03:41:48 PM
Quote from: JimboWHO on June 02, 2012, 11:33:59 AM
Quote from: dasher on June 02, 2012, 11:20:44 AM
I think this topic met the mods hidden agenda- can a high road great president discussion ultimately take the low road of partisan politics. Well done.

Where's the low road?

All I've seen is lively but largely polite discussion.  Opinions are shared and facts are supplied. 

I agree with LENN... A+++++


I don't know if we've hit the low road Jimbo but we have gone off topic and partisan and biased opinions have emerged.  Mine for example: my opinion is that Reagan is one of the worst presidents ever.  I know that he is reveared as a great president and I knew that my negative comment would stir up someone or another and you managed to get stirred up.  AND you mistakenly identified Obama as my guy.  A lot of mention about Obama in a thread about greatest president.  How can we include him in this topic?  He's not great by any standard and he's not finished.

The Obama discussion takes us down the low road. 

You made your point regarding the topic on the 1st page Lincoln= greatest, Reagan= favorite   Fine!

Great President?  Just Google the two words and you come up with Lincoln and FDR at the top of most lists.  But Ed asks why.

In reading the comments here it seems that success in warfare is a basis for greatness.  I believe that with the exception of Washington, Jefferson, Madison and FDR, the basis is a false one, does not apply and eliminates them from greatness but Presidents use war and military incursions as a form of foreign policy.  If they are successful, they are also successful at the polls as well.  As a Vietnam war vet I am cynical but this is a tried and true method of getting reelected.

Another reason from commenters as a basis for greatness centers around the written statements that were so inspirational like Jefferson's Declaration of Independence.  "All men are created equal"  well, in Jefferson's case, not black or red men not women, not men without property.  I'm an egalitarian.   That equal stuff is really important to me.  I like the guy but he was a classist and a hypocrite.  Not great.  Madison, Now there was a possible candidate for great President- well he was a slave owner.  Adams was great  Well He actually sold out the french after they assisted us during the revolutionary war. 

The abuse of minorities is one of my measures for declaring a president as not great.  Blacks, Hispanics, Indians, women, Japanese and so on.  Most presidents don't do well here.

Administration!  That's what Presidents are supposed to do.  Yeah!  If a president is a good administrator, runs the operation of government well, mans the cabinet well, appoints unbiased, nonpolitical judges to the high courts, works well with Congress and the Senate, well that's the primary function of a president.  If he does that well, he (or she) belongs on the list of great presidents.  In my life, Clinton and Eisenhower come to mind.  In essence, both were moderate Republicans to me.  Yeah I know, Bill Clinton was a Dem.  I say that if it walks like a duck
Title: Re: NFT: Who do you believe was the Greatest US President?
Post by: weeze on June 02, 2012, 06:02:39 PM
gee, maybe eds will return now! oh goody!
Title: Re: NFT: Who do you believe was the Greatest US President?
Post by: king of the bronx on June 02, 2012, 06:07:43 PM
Jimbo if you think I fell on my head, please do the research on Ronny RAY GUN I lived under this man as governor of California and president of our republic, I know what I have witnessed over that period of time. I challenge you to do some in depth research of this man, and I do not mean the ten o clock news, or the rest of the corporate media, I mean something a lot more accurate and I think your eyes may be opened to things you just did not know. So sorry if I said things you do not agree with, however I am not in the habit of following the company line in the name of Patriotism, moreover I want to be in line with the TRUTH. Murder I applaud you for your historical insight, I have always loved history and decided to major in it in college and I continue to study as much as I can.  /??? /??? /??? 
Title: Re: NFT: Who do you believe was the Greatest US President?
Post by: JimboWHO on June 02, 2012, 06:09:36 PM
Quote from: vette on June 02, 2012, 05:58:38 PM
Quote from: JimboWHO on June 02, 2012, 05:38:49 PM
Quote from: murderhill on June 02, 2012, 03:41:48 PM
Quote from: JimboWHO on June 02, 2012, 11:33:59 AM
Quote from: dasher on June 02, 2012, 11:20:44 AM
I think this topic met the mods hidden agenda- can a high road great president discussion ultimately take the low road of partisan politics. Well done.

Where's the low road?

All I've seen is lively but largely polite discussion.  Opinions are shared and facts are supplied. 

I agree with LENN... A+++++


I don't know if we've hit the low road Jimbo but we have gone off topic and partisan and biased opinions have emerged.  Mine for example: my opinion is that Reagan is one of the worst presidents ever.  I know that he is reveared as a great president and I knew that my negative comment would stir up someone or another and you managed to get stirred up.  AND you mistakenly identified Obama as my guy.  A lot of mention about Obama in a thread about greatest president.  How can we include him in this topic?  He's not great by any standard and he's not finished.

The Obama discussion takes us down the low road. 

You made your point regarding the topic on the 1st page Lincoln= greatest, Reagan= favorite   Fine!

Great President?  Just Google the two words and you come up with Lincoln and FDR at the top of most lists.  But Ed asks why.

In reading the comments here it seems that success in warfare is a basis for greatness.  I believe that with the exception of Washington, Jefferson, Madison and FDR, the basis is a false one, does not apply and eliminates them from greatness but Presidents use war and military incursions as a form of foreign policy.  If they are successful, they are also successful at the polls as well.  As a Vietnam war vet I am cynical but this is a tried and true method of getting reelected.

Another reason from commenters as a basis for greatness centers around the written statements that were so inspirational like Jefferson's Declaration of Independence.  "All men are created equal"  well, in Jefferson's case, not black or red men not women, not men without property.  I'm an egalitarian.   That equal stuff is really important to me.  I like the guy but he was a classist and a hypocrite.  Not great.  Madison, Now there was a possible candidate for great President- well he was a slave owner.  Adams was great  Well He actually sold out the french after they assisted us during the revolutionary war. 

The abuse of minorities is one of my measures for declaring a president as not great.  Blacks, Hispanics, Indians, women, Japanese and so on.  Most presidents don't do well here.

Administration!  That's what Presidents are supposed to do.  Yeah!  If a president is a good administrator, runs the operation of government well, mans the cabinet well, appoints unbiased, nonpolitical judges to the high courts, works well with Congress and the Senate, well that's the primary function of a president.  If he does that well, he (or she) belongs on the list of great presidents.  In my life, Clinton and Eisenhower come to mind.  In essence, both were moderate Republicans to me.  Yeah I know, Bill Clinton was a Dem.  I say that if it walks like a duck
Title: Re: NFT: Who do you believe was the Greatest US President?
Post by: king of the bronx on June 02, 2012, 06:34:32 PM
Jimbo there is plenty of documentation of his Racist attitude just as much as Nixon's Anti Semitic attitude both of these men were extremely Racist. As far as his Fascist leaning, Mousollini  the man who invented the philosophy was asked what it was, replied it is corporatism,a melding of corporations and the nation state, in order for them to take over the positions of control. Reagan, Bush, The Dullas's and many other leaders of our republic fall into this category, George Bush's grand father was busted under the Trading With The Enemy Statue, he was the banker of Nazi money during the war. Listen my good man I am not making this up just read about it yourself, and while you are at it read the works of one of the greatest american patriots Smedley Butler.    :o :o :o 
Title: NFT: Who do you believe was the Greatest US President?
Post by: vette5573 on June 02, 2012, 06:35:00 PM
Ok, let's introduce sarcasm and humor in it's basic unappreciated form into the equation.
Title: Re: NFT: Who do you believe was the Greatest US President?
Post by: king of the bronx on June 02, 2012, 06:54:21 PM
Jimbo did you know Alexander Hamilton's mother was an OCTOROON which is someone that is of African ancestry she is from the same island that my grand parents are from St Croix the former Danish West Indies he has a similar ethnic background as I do, one of mixed ancestry, my great grandfather was a Portuguese Jew. By todays standard that would make a BLACK MAN. HOLY SMOKE   =)) =)) =)) 
Title: Re: NFT: Who do you believe was the Greatest US President?
Post by: JimboWHO on June 02, 2012, 07:09:47 PM
Quote from: king of the bronx on June 02, 2012, 06:07:43 PM
Jimbo if you think I fell on my head, please do the research on Ronny RAY GUN I lived under this man as governor of California and president of our republic, I know what I have witnessed over that period of time. I challenge you to do some in depth research of this man, and I do not mean the ten o clock news, or the rest of the corporate media, I mean something a lot more accurate and I think your eyes may be opened to things you just did not know. So sorry if I said things you do not agree with, however I am not in the habit of following the company line in the name of Patriotism, moreover I want to be in line with the TRUTH. Murder I applaud you for your historical insight, I have always loved history and decided to major in it in college and I continue to study as much as I can.  /??? /??? /???

I'll pass KING.   It occurred to me sometime ago that it's fruitless to be drawn into a debate on Reagan with those who feel the need to spell his name in the way you and others like you do.  You've been debating people like me on Reagan for years and you think you've won those debates.  I wanna help you keep your streak intact.   Moreover, your posts - your original on the previous page and subsequent ones - are the product of a very special mind and I firmly believe your written words here reveal much more about you than the 'education' you feel you've provided to me on Reagan.

It's always a surprise to people like you to learn that there are those like me who've read a great deal about Reagan.  We even lived (and prospered!) through his presidency.  I'll have to let you down easy and gently suggest there is precious little I can learn from the likes of you about Reagan.  I even realize that he's as imperfect as you are.

I'll just leave you alone, alone with all those intense thoughts you have about this man.   You can use the time that would otherwise be devoted to debating me to trying to understand how the people of California and then the entire U.S. (93 states in two elections) got it so wrong when you got it so right.

JJM
Title: Re: NFT: Who do you believe was the Greatest US President?
Post by: Chris on June 02, 2012, 07:34:02 PM
Quote from: Chris on June 01, 2012, 07:12:04 PM
And there it is.

Can a lockdown be far behind?

It's probably not a bad idea.

I even quoted myself in this thread.. That's a first.

A lockout would probably be a good idea. Sooner rather than later.
Title: Re: NFT: Who do you believe was the Greatest US President?
Post by: king of the bronx on June 02, 2012, 07:34:51 PM
Quote from: JimboWHO on June 02, 2012, 07:09:47 PM
Quote from: king of the bronx on June 02, 2012, 06:07:43 PM
Jimbo if you think I fell on my head, please do the research on Ronny RAY GUN I lived under this man as governor of California and president of our republic, I know what I have witnessed over that period of time. I challenge you to do some in depth research of this man, and I do not mean the ten o clock news, or the rest of the corporate media, I mean something a lot more accurate and I think your eyes may be opened to things you just did not know. So sorry if I said things you do not agree with, however I am not in the habit of following the company line in the name of Patriotism, moreover I want to be in line with the TRUTH. Murder I applaud you for your historical insight, I have always loved history and decided to major in it in college and I continue to study as much as I can.  /??? /??? /???

I'll pass KING.   It occurred to me sometime ago that it's fruitless to be drawn into a debate on Reagan with those who feel the need to spell his name in the way you and others like you do.  You've been debating people like me on Reagan for years and you think you've won those debates.  I wanna help you keep your streak intact.   Moreover, your posts - your original on the previous page and subsequent ones - are the product of a very special mind and I firmly believe your written words here reveal much more about you than the 'education' you feel you've provided to me on Reagan.

It's always a surprise to people like you to learn that there are those like me who've read a great deal about Reagan.  We even lived (and prospered!) through his presidency.  I'll have to let you down easy and gently suggest there is precious little I can learn from the likes of you about Reagan.  I even realize that he's as imperfect as you are.

I'll just leave you alone, alone with all those intense thoughts you have about this man.   You can use the time that would otherwise be devoted to debating me to trying to understand how the people of California and then the entire U.S. (93 states in two elections) got it so wrong when you got it so right.

JJM                         


       People like me, I do not represent any people I speak my mind based on my own thoughts and observations, and nothing more. I do not claim any particular school of thought vis a vis Liberalism, or Conservatism, however I totally agree with you, lets just let this rest, after this is a sports web. Good day sir.   :ok: :ok: :ok:

Title: Re: NFT: Who do you believe was the Greatest US President?
Post by: jimv on June 02, 2012, 07:37:49 PM
OK, guys, it IS starting to get a little personal here.  Let's just try to simmer down a little.

king, I was just wondering if you remember from your history that JFK's father earned most of his money from illegal bootlegging and that he was essentially pro-German prior to the World War II?  But, is that of any importance?  JFK was an OK president as some people have stated.  And, the way you present your arguments as if everything you say is FACT, you tend to antagonize people like JIMBO who are on the other side of the philosophical coin.

JIMBO, I think you tend to react too quickly to anything adverse said about people you admire.  And, you jump in quickly with more loose statements.   Let everything sink in for awhile.

OK?  Just some advice from a fellow Giant fan.
Title: Re: NFT: Who do you believe was the Greatest US President?
Post by: murderhill on June 02, 2012, 07:38:18 PM
Quote from: Chris on June 02, 2012, 07:34:02 PM
Quote from: Chris on June 01, 2012, 07:12:04 PM
And there it is.

Can a lockdown be far behind?

It's probably not a bad idea.

I even quoted myself in this thread.. That's a first.

A lockout would probably be a good idea. Sooner rather than later.
Is this the internet blogging version of narcissistic personality disorder?
Title: Re: NFT: Who do you believe was the Greatest US President?
Post by: JimboWHO on June 02, 2012, 07:53:24 PM
Quote from: king of the bronx on June 02, 2012, 07:34:51 PM
Quote from: JimboWHO on June 02, 2012, 07:09:47 PM
Quote from: king of the bronx on June 02, 2012, 06:07:43 PM
Jimbo if you think I fell on my head, please do the research on Ronny RAY GUN I lived under this man as governor of California and president of our republic, I know what I have witnessed over that period of time. I challenge you to do some in depth research of this man, and I do not mean the ten o clock news, or the rest of the corporate media, I mean something a lot more accurate and I think your eyes may be opened to things you just did not know. So sorry if I said things you do not agree with, however I am not in the habit of following the company line in the name of Patriotism, moreover I want to be in line with the TRUTH. Murder I applaud you for your historical insight, I have always loved history and decided to major in it in college and I continue to study as much as I can.  /??? /??? /???

I'll pass KING.   It occurred to me sometime ago that it's fruitless to be drawn into a debate on Reagan with those who feel the need to spell his name in the way you and others like you do.  You've been debating people like me on Reagan for years and you think you've won those debates.  I wanna help you keep your streak intact.   Moreover, your posts - your original on the previous page and subsequent ones - are the product of a very special mind and I firmly believe your written words here reveal much more about you than the 'education' you feel you've provided to me on Reagan.

It's always a surprise to people like you to learn that there are those like me who've read a great deal about Reagan.  We even lived (and prospered!) through his presidency.  I'll have to let you down easy and gently suggest there is precious little I can learn from the likes of you about Reagan.  I even realize that he's as imperfect as you are.

I'll just leave you alone, alone with all those intense thoughts you have about this man.   You can use the time that would otherwise be devoted to debating me to trying to understand how the people of California and then the entire U.S. (93 states in two elections) got it so wrong when you got it so right.

JJM                         


       People like me, I do not represent any people I speak my mind based on my own thoughts and observations, and nothing more. I do not claim any particular school of thought vis a vis Liberalism, or Conservatism, however I totally agree with you, lets just let this rest, after this is a sports web. Good day sir.   :ok: :ok: :ok:


Fair enough - good day.
Title: Re: NFT: Who do you believe was the Greatest US President?
Post by: Chris on June 02, 2012, 08:36:54 PM
Quote from: murderhill on June 02, 2012, 07:38:18 PM
Is this the internet blogging version of narcissistic personality disorder?

Murder, since I probably suffer from it in real life, you're probably right!
Title: Re: NFT: Who do you believe was the Greatest US President?
Post by: joeynygiants on June 03, 2012, 12:17:17 PM
what is strange I feel I the only one who like wilson as a president.

the man has vision in his league of nations, and he lead our nation to end the 1st world war.

Title: Re: NFT: Who do you believe was the Greatest US President?
Post by: joeynygiants on June 03, 2012, 12:20:16 PM
wilson's 14 points were to me one of the best speeches ever given in this nation's hsitoiry on january 8th, 1918.

he was right on, many should had listen to him.
Title: Re: NFT: Who do you believe was the Greatest US President?
Post by: giantsguy on June 03, 2012, 01:40:29 PM
Make no mistake, this is the Back Porch under a different name.