Poll
Question:
Keep him or dump him?
Option 1: Fire him. Total disappointment
votes: 6
Option 2: Needs better players
votes: 47
Option 3: A work in progress, needs more time
votes: 6
Option 4: Did an Ok job and showing improvement. Better than Perry Fewell
votes: 14
Option 5: Worked miracles with what he had, he's a keeper
votes: 11
Explain if you like.
I've seen Spagnolo's work with credible NFL talent to work with defensively for the NEW YORK GIANTS.. I could care less about his time in St. Louis and N.O.
Players make plays at crunch time. Being generous i see 3 players on that defense.
How in the world do you judge a defensive coach who is starting Craig Dahl and a rookie safety who needs LOTS of seasoning. Invisible linebackers ?? And the pass rush has at least showed more improvement and penetration the last few games. I trusts Spags. McAdoo is another story.
Geez, give him some better pieces to work with! This may be a moot point; if you hire a coach from outside the organization would he be willing to keep the current staff (highly unlikely) or do you hire from within (who?).
Except for the Mcadoo cooment, Obs, i like your post.
Quote from: jimv on December 21, 2015, 08:37:30 PM
Except for the Mcadoo cooment, Obs, i like your post.
Yeah, I "LIKED" but then "UNLIKED" his post after seeing the McAdoo comment.
JJM
I didn't much care for the Spag (re)hire but this defense is lacking play makers at every level. All those high end assets (like first/second round picks) going into offense and subpar drafting in rounds 3-7 have hurt this team.
Outside of DRC and Hankins, there's not a whole lot to like on that defense.*
*I'm not including Collins in this assessment. It's not entirely fair to judge rookies during their rookie season on a depleted squad.
Quote from: jimv on December 21, 2015, 08:37:30 PM
Except for the Mcadoo cooment, Obs, i like your post.
Jim...quite simply to me McAdoo has done less with more ...Spags more with less.
Not to hijack the thread because i went into detail in the rate McAdoo thread. I do not give McAdoo a pass because of the OLine. Denver's OL has been a mess all year. Same for NE. Same for San Diego and another half dozen teams. Eli has mastered the quick release because of this. if you want to give McAdoo credit for that....great. But Eli is a Manning and I just have a feeling that they get a wee bit smarter and wiser each year they play.
A big minus for me...the 4 man RB committee. Jennings and Vereen weren't given nice contracts because they are stumblebums. They are weapons...certainly not OBJ type of weapns..but weapons nonetheless To me "underuse" is "misuse". Heck some game they are "nonused". We got OBJ...a slowly blossoming TE whom I have fallen in love with and Jennings and Vereen. Jennings and Vereen should have 25-30 touches per game. period.
Andre Williams has had 71 rushes this year. Forget any receptions or plays he is on the field but does not touch the ball. That fact alone raises my blood pressure a good 20 points. And i do not forgive TC for that either. After about 4 games of that rotational crap it should have been halted. the fact it continued on scares the heck out of me.
The last two games Jennings got the majority of carries and the running game improved. What was the reason or catalyst in the change?
Quote from: Vette on December 21, 2015, 09:41:42 PM
The last two games Jennings got the majority of carries and the running game improved. What was the reason or catalyst in the change?
Rhythm
Why did they change from dividing the carries to going with Jennings the last two games? Media criticism or by design?
I love spagnolo.
I think players play for him but I don't think he has personnel to work with.
I blame Reese for that.
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I went for needs more time. Why? Because regardless of the type of players he had to work with as we saw against the Cowboys in the first game a QB an offensive coordinator studying his play-calling tendencies from years ago picked apart his defense like they knew what was coming - because they did.
Quite frankly, I don't think he's learned anything new since last time he was with us. He hasn't evolved in any way.
Until last year I would have given Spags a pass as he had little to work with. However I look at what happened to the Cowboys last year. Prior to the start of the season it was thought the Cowboys would have the worst defense in the league due to a glaring lack of talent. Monte Kiffin comes in and makes a respectable defense with what he had (he really didn't have a true pass rusher for instance). Guys playing for him tended to have banner or career years. In my mind that's what marks a great DC.
Spags on the other hand hasn't managed to coax any of the defensive players to have a career year. Not DRC, not Prince, not Kennard, certainly not Moore and so on. So I would say Spags is at best an average DC for what it's worth. Historically Spags seems to have had more failures than successes both as a DC and as a head coach so if Coughlin does go I don't see a need to keep Spags.
Quote from: UKGiantsFan on December 22, 2015, 07:53:38 AM
I went for needs more time. Why? Because regardless of the type of players he had to work with as we saw against the Cowboys in the first game a QB an offensive coordinator studying his play-calling tendencies from years ago picked apart his defense like they knew what was coming - because they did.
Quite frankly, I don't think he's learned anything new since last time he was with us. He hasn't evolved in any way.
The way I saw the last minute Dallas collapse was Garrett and Romo targeted Unga all the way down the field for the win.
JJM
The players have to actually execute the plan, which for the most part they did not.
Given the lack of talent or brains, Spags was trying to make chicken salad out of chicken sh*t all season long.
Quote from: MightyGiants on December 22, 2015, 08:00:48 AM
Until last year I would have given Spags a pass as he had little to work with. However I look at what happened to the Cowboys last year. Prior to the start of the season it was thought the Cowboys would have the worst defense in the league due to a glaring lack of talent. Monte Kiffin comes in and makes a respectable defense with what he had (he really didn't have a true pass rusher for instance). Guys playing for him tended to have banner or career years. In my mind that's what marks a great DC.
Spags on the other hand hasn't managed to coax any of the defensive players to have a career year. Not DRC, not Prince, not Kennard, certainly not Moore and so on. So I would say Spags is at best an average DC for what it's worth. Historically Spags seems to have had more failures than successes both as a DC and as a head coach so if Coughlin does go I don't see a need to keep Spags.
Didn't hurt that he had Strahan, Osi and Tuck at his disposal! Talent can hide a lot of deficiencies much like OBJ is doing with the offense.
I was not for bringing Spags back and trying to bring back glory of yester year.
That being said this defense is a complete disaster. I honestly believe whatever Spags calls the opposition can easily exploit. He is in a loss/loss situation.
Having the 23rd worse scoring defense and 32nd defense in total yards is an embarrassment to the franchise and needs to change immediately.
This defense is a sad, painful joke that hurts to watch.
A new coach will probably bring his own DC in. I'm hoping the new coach comes from a defensive background.
Spags defense requires levels of talent in very specific areas:
I am going to oversimplify this so...it is what it is.
He needs a DL that can hold the point of attack..DT's who can penetrate inside, and DE who can seal the edge.
He needs at least ONE Safety who knows how to read formations and can take proper angles on ball carriers/receivers.
He needs one MLB who is a legitimate run/pass defender and can stay on the field 1st through 3rd down
and he needs corners who can play bump and run coverage
the rest you can fill in with Journeymen and he will put together a defense that can make the necessary stop at the right time.
He has nowhere near any of the above mentioned assets with few exceptions (DRC, a healthy Prince, and a 2 handed JPP)
So the consistent theme here is......
Quote from: JimboWHO on December 22, 2015, 08:01:50 AM
The way I saw the last minute Dallas collapse was Garrett and Romo targeted Unga all the way down the field for the win.
JJM
As did Carolina to get into field goal range. Unga is still looking for his jock after getting juked out of it by Cam who is 6'5' and 250lb, then Olsen ran around him like he was a traffic cone. It's really not Unga's fault, he doesn't have the ability to play the Mike(or any LB position), but this is what JR gave TC to work with.
I heard Boomer Esiason even say that spags has special teamers playing on defense so you know he was dealt a short hand. We have no difference,big play making players on defense. No pass rushers,no rangy heat-seeking linebackers.
Fragile corners. Lack of depth at corner. Fringe line backing corps. We don't have a ball-hawking free safety and Collins the rookie safety always seems to arrive one step late to the ball carrier. I like seeing guys who are always around the ball making stops.
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You can change your vote now if you decided differently.
We could have had Bill Belichick possessed by Vince Lombardi running that defense and it wouldn't have made a bit of a difference. Those players are just plain awful.
Quote from: Gmo11 on December 28, 2015, 12:35:53 PM
We could have had Bill Belichick possessed by Vince Lombardi running that defense and it wouldn't have made a bit of a difference. Those players are just plain awful.
absolutely right.
We know who to blame for that.
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Quote from: Vette on December 28, 2015, 11:58:56 AM
You can change your vote now if you decided differently.
i don't understand what you mean.
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94% support for Spagnulo at this time.
Spags cannot rush the passer.
He needs players who can.
The D-Line suffered because they lacked any rookie production since the drafting of JPP.
This includes the high profile failure of Demantre Moore to develop.
Additionally, the injury of JPP, well after the free agency plums had already been picked prevented the Giants from collecting the kind of talent required.
If they had a crystal ball, perhaps they would have given a greater effort to signing Ndamkin Suh.
I honestly believe that bringing one more top tier pass rusher into the rotation would have won at least 4 more games.
That's how close they really were.
I still feel that they are close.
Three upgrades: Two more impact pass rushers (one by draft and one by free agency), one stud linebacker (by either draft or free agency).
Spags will redeem himself.
pagan43
Quote from: pagan43 on December 29, 2015, 01:00:05 PM
Spags cannot rush the passer.
He needs players who can.
The D-Line suffered because they lacked any rookie production since the drafting of JPP.
This includes the high profile failure of Demantre Moore to develop.
Additionally, the injury of JPP, well after the free agency plums had already been picked prevented the Giants from collecting the kind of talent required.
If they had a crystal ball, perhaps they would have given a greater effort to signing Ndamkin Suh.
I honestly believe that bringing one more top tier pass rusher into the rotation would have won at least 4 more games.
That's how close they really were.
I still feel that they are close.
Three upgrades: Two more impact pass rushers (one by draft and one by free agency), one stud linebacker (by either draft or free agency).
Spags will redeem himself.
pagan43
Suh is a head case. He can't be trusted.
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Quote from: Bye_H8er on December 29, 2015, 05:39:08 PM
Suh is a head case. He can't be trusted.
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Damontre Moore is a head case. He could never be trusted and he has a fraction of Suh's impact on the field.
Now he's Suh's teammate...
pagan43
Quote from: babywhales on December 22, 2015, 09:13:10 AM
I was not for bringing Spags back and trying to bring back glory of yester year.
That being said this defense is a complete disaster. I honestly believe whatever Spags calls the opposition can easily exploit. He is in a loss/loss situation.
Having the 23rd worse scoring defense and 32nd defense in total yards is an embarrassment to the franchise and needs to change immediately.
This defense is a sad, painful joke that hurts to watch.
The above sums it up for me. I am willing to give Spags another go with some new pieces, but I am not enamored with him like I once was.
92% support