Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: TONKA56 on April 18, 2024, 03:37:12 PMDo you really think he was "terrible?"

I think so. It's not just me, PFF gave Barkley a 58.3 receiving grade for 2022, which is pretty bad when you consider they start out with a 60.0

Quote from: katkavage on April 18, 2024, 03:31:23 PMAfter five years, I've seen more than enough. Jones is not horrible. He's not a bust like Zach Wilson. But he's not gonna get you where you want to go either. His ceiling is maybe a 15 ranking. He can't go higher than that and if the Giants keep the status quo, there will be rookies that will be ranked higher than Jones after next year. And yes he says he had a stinger last year. And a torn ACL, which for him to even get to 100 percent will be October at the earliest. As a Giant fan, I hope for better. Simple as that.

I get it.

He does just enough to give hope but lacks the supporting cast to elevate the team. QB Hell.

Quote from: MightyGiants on April 18, 2024, 03:34:24 PMThe problem with Barkley is he ran well, but he was terrible as a receiver

Do you really think he was "terrible?"

Quote from: katkavage on April 18, 2024, 09:40:27 AMExplain

OK. All I'm saying is that should the Giants give up substantial capital to move up and take a quarterback like JJ, then the legacy of Schoen is going to reside almost solely on that move, similar to how Gettleman is linked to Jones. If Jones had turned out to be a superstar, Gettleman would be a hero. I was more making an observation about the situation, not advocating for what Schoen should or shouldn't do. That's why I asked if it would be worth it. Rest assured the folks that say "absolutely" will be there to roast Schoen if he drafts the wrong guy and gives up the farm to get him. That's just the reality of it. But who knows, maybe the folks that roast Jones today will blame the offensive line for the would be failures of his successor. Fandom is always an interesting analysis of the human condition. 

Quote from: EDjohnst1981 on April 18, 2024, 03:32:26 PMOut of interest, what was Barkley's stats and productions through the first 8 weeks of '22.

Whilst he doesn't fit into your 3 P's, I suspect he was pretty darn good.

The problem with Barkley is he ran well, but he was terrible as a receiver

Quote from: MightyGiants on April 18, 2024, 02:18:02 PMJones outplayed the 3 Ps of support, which is really what one expects a franchise QB to do.  Coaching was adequate to above average, but protection was below average, and playmakers (in terms of receivers) were non-existent.  Despite that, in terms of the quality stats, Jones was top 10 to 12, in that range.

Out of interest, what was Barkley's stats and productions through the first 8 weeks of '22.

Whilst he doesn't fit into your 3 P's, I suspect he was pretty darn good.

Quote from: T200 on April 18, 2024, 03:25:47 PMI like Schoen but he's been burned by Jones twice and it's clear that Mara is still providing a negative influence on the roster.

I truly feel that after the playoff win against Minny, Mara, in some way, shape, or form, let Schoen know that he wanted to get a deal done to keep Jones. Some sort of compromise was made to give Schoen a reasonable out after the second year.

If Jones happens to lead this team to another playoff victory, Schoen will have a helluva time ditching Jones.

After five years, I've seen more than enough. Jones is not horrible. He's not a bust like Zach Wilson. But he's not gonna get you where you want to go either. His ceiling is maybe a 15 ranking. He can't go higher than that and if the Giants keep the status quo, there will be rookies that will be ranked higher than Jones after next year. And yes he says he had a stinger last year. And a torn ACL, which for him to even get to 100 percent will be October at the earliest. As a Giant fan, I hope for better. Simple as that.

Quote from: Jclayton92 on April 18, 2024, 02:14:27 PMIt shouldn't though because as much as people try to act like Jones was magnificent in 2022, he wasn't the 3200 yards and 15 tds show that. So if he duplicates 2022 then in my eyes it's even more obvious we need a change. A 6th year Qb that can't throw for 4,000 yards when 4th rd picks come into this league every year and do it with less talent should be alarming.

I like Schoen but he's been burned by Jones twice and it's clear that Mara is still providing a negative influence on the roster.

I truly feel that after the playoff win against Minny, Mara, in some way, shape, or form, let Schoen know that he wanted to get a deal done to keep Jones. Some sort of compromise was made to give Schoen a reasonable out after the second year.

If Jones happens to lead this team to another playoff victory, Schoen will have a helluva time ditching Jones.

if the first post is true, there might be some bidding up among interested teams.  TRADE DOWN.  I'd rather have 2 red chippers than a 'blue' chip bust, and those qb's have bust written all over them

Quote from: Bob In PA on April 18, 2024, 02:05:52 PMThose other teams believe what I believe... pick six is good slot to be in this year. Bob

When you consider the top shelf (4 QBs, 3 WRs, 1 TE, and at least 1 OT) that would all be top 1 or 2 picks in many other drafts, you can see why. Hence, if trading down, don't trade down too far unless you get a ridiculous offer that includes multiple pics in the first half of the draft, coupled with first round draft picks in coming drafts