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Messages - todge

#1
Quote from: Jclayton92 on March 20, 2024, 09:13:38 PMIt's amazing you continue to use one year of a five year career to try to justify your point, even saying it now sounds ridiculous knowing what we know. A) Jones only threw the ball beyond 20 yards twice before Thanksgiving in 2022. It's the whole mirage that kafka/Daboll used to prop Jones up in 2022 and if you can't see that then maybe that is the issue. Jones had identical passing production to Davis Mills, a 3rd pick who was in his 2nd year not 4th year, but shhh let's ignore that, and that Jones only threw beyond 200 yards 6 times, or that we had a bottom passing offense. None of that matter, but Jones rating when he throws 8, 6 yard dump passes because he can't read defenses, that's what really matters.

Also king didn't say anything like that, what he said over and over again was that no 4th/5th year Qb played horrible for his first several years in the league and then magically became great. Which is the truth, as we've seen with Jones over and over again.

It must have really saddened you to see every defense Jones face last season publicly blast him and make fun of him for not being able to read defenses, but let's ignore that right, just like we ignore the Eagles playoff game.

Jones can't mentally process plays or make basic adjustments, but he's supposedly going to blossom? It's the same thing every season, and every season there's a new excuse or reasoning.

At what point is it Jones and not everyone else, because you saw this past season and the 4 before that and you are still lining up for more of Jones which is mind blowing to me. Virtually everyone has acknowledged we need a new Qb and Jones isn't the future but sure let's give him another half decade.
Jones had a promising and good rookie year. He threw 23 TD passes and was as high as fifth in QBR. Then the offense disintegrated due to injuries. So his entire career was not a flop as you claim.

As to your reference to "dump off" passes. It's the QBs job to run the offense. It's not his fault that the game plan was designed to accommodate an awful WR corp and an equally awful offensive line. Still DJ was clearly the best player on the field for most of the games in 2022. In the road Playoff victory, he threw for 300 yards and ran for 100.

You can dislike Jones all you want. But perhaps you can start to realize there are opposing arguments in support of Jones that are valid. Let's also remember that Daboll and Schoen also like and support Jones.


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#2
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on March 15, 2024, 07:13:37 PMLet's assume for a moment the Giants don't draft a QB. I'm not saying they won't, but for the sake of argument let's just suppose for a moment that they don't.

Assuming Jones is cleared by the doctors, which sounds likely to happen on schedule, I think it's all but nailed on that he starts week one.

What I'll say though, is I think Daboll will be much less tolerant of poor play by Jones now that he has seen other backup Giant QBs outperform him with the same supporting cast. So Lock may get a shot even if Jones doesn't get hurt. Jones could easily get benched for performance-related reasons this year.
Actually it was not "the same supporting cast" on the offensive line for Jones as it was for DeVito and Taylor.

Thomas and Barkley were out and their replacements were inept. Two rookies started and were ill prepared to play yet. The level of competition was higher in Dallas, San Francisco, Miami and to a lesser extent Seattle. Jones had less than two seconds to throw the ball , discarding the theory that Jones held the ball too long. The pathetic OL was on pace to set a NFL record for sacks. The cards were stacked against Jones (and any other QB). The OL improved as the year went on which benefited the backup QBs.

A more likely scenario is that Daboll fully remembers Jones' performance in 2022 where he led the Giants to a road Playoff victory - a game where DJ threw for over 300 yards and ran for another 100.


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#3
Big Blue Huddle / Re: Maras Meddling Madness
February 18, 2024, 05:45:22 PM
Quote from: madbadger on February 18, 2024, 04:58:41 PMHe's focusing on the wrong Mara. I don't really have a problem with John. Our abysmal draft record over the past decade, including three different general managers, stands as an indictment of Chris Mara's influence in the player personnel department. He is the only common thread.
Chris Mara probably had minimal influence because personnel decisions are made via group consensus.
Even then, his influence was probably positive. Before he came to the Giants, Chris ran a very successful scouting service that was subscribed to by over half the teams in the NFL. He knows his stuff.


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#4
Add to the list of bonehead decisions- why put your offense on the field after winning the coin flip? Daboll should have deferred and put his defense on the field. Predictably they went three and out.


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#5
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on October 16, 2023, 06:49:45 AMBottom line for me on this topic was that Taylor was no worse than Jones has been this year, and that's putting in a way that's frankly generous to Jones.

Taylor is a $5.5mm a year journeyman backup in his mid 30s who has barely been on the field the last few years. Jones is a $40m a year, feature fifth year starter whom some fans here still see as the franchise QB they want the front office to continue to build the team around moving forward.

Am I arguing Taylor's performance last night was anything great? No, obviously not, but was it any worse than Jones? Sorry, but no, it was not. Anyone who refuses to admit that is simply suppressing the truth or is just too clouded by bias and stubbornness to be able to make an objective judgment.

Taylor made multiple nice downfield throws that we have seen very little of from Jones this year, and he took excellent care of the ball overall. And for those trying to downplay the Bills' D, give me a break, please. That's still a top D, and it was a hostile environment and a hostile opponent that was in the mood to fight. It was hardly an easy situation. And it was as bad an O line roster as anything Jones has had to deal with this year, not to mention Barkley clearly wasn't healthy and was getting stuffed at or behind the line for most of the game.

People can try to squint their eyes and manipulate the narrative as much as they want, but the reality is what it is: Taylor last night was no less than on par with Jones this year, and I actually think that's selling him short. Both the eye test and the numbers say he was better than what we have seen from Jones this year, and he is on this roster at about 1/8th of the annual price with about 1/10th of the total guarantee. The facts simply are what they are.
The offensive line under Daniel Jones was on a pace to allow the most sacks in NFL. As soon as he got the ball, he was under siege. I'd be interested to get your take on this because it appears most are ignoring this very real situation


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#6
Quote from: Giant Jim on October 04, 2023, 06:41:05 PMIf the team continues to play this bad over the next several weeks, it might be time to clean house and start over. I'm wondering if a contender would trade for Barkley near the trade deadline if he's healthy? I think after the season, Daniel Jones's contract is moveable and if the Giants have the chance to draft a can't miss QB, it might not be a bad idea to trade him. Jones is taking a beating and would benefit with a half decent OL with another team. I wonder if he hopes to be traded so he can have a chance to show what he can do? This would buy the Giants a couple more seasons to build the line with adequate back ups and develop a QB. I don't see the offensive line coming together for another couple of years, meaning Jones will be in his 7th season. How long can he keep going with the beating he takes almost every game?

I'm not trashing Jones or Barkley, but wonder if they'd still be around when the rest of the team is competitive.
There isn't such a thing as a "can't miss QB".


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#7
George Young stated it best - "show me a struggling team and I will show you a team with a struggling offensive line". 

Outside of Schmitz, Schoen ignored the OL in the Draft. There were plenty of prospects available but he passed.


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#8
Big Blue Huddle / Re: Can we get our money back?
September 11, 2023, 05:58:45 PM
Jones had less than one second to throw the ball. He was rushed, harassed, hit, hurried and sacked the entire game. You're entitled to your opinion- but thinking any QB can be successful under that much duress is a pipe dream.


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#9
Quote from: beaugestus on September 01, 2023, 12:16:28 PMI think we have to keep in mind that with all their numbers it's all in the past. Not to taking into account the experience it takes to learn how to play in the NFL. Along with the physical maturation these players in their early 20s will go through. As we have seen sometimes it's about how much they want it.
"heavily reliant on the run game" is PFF taking a swipe at Jones"ability to pass the ball.


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#10
Quote from: Gman329 on September 04, 2023, 10:38:21 AMMethinks the hook makes the Giants a good play. I also wouldn't be at all surprised if the hook is gone by game time and it goes off at 3.....or even 2.5.  If you like the Giants get the play in now.
Actually it's gone up to +5.5 in some spots


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#11
Big Blue Huddle / Re: Hyatt on DJ's work ethic
September 05, 2023, 12:51:48 PM
Quote from: Jclayton92 on September 04, 2023, 04:52:35 PMFirst off I think Hyatt is just giving Jones a compliment.

Second there are still a ton of questions surrounding Jones, I don't know how anyone can act like there aren't. Yes he cut down on the mistakes and looked good in preseason, but lets have that translate to the regular season first before we decide that he's the only player we won't question as there are 100s of threads questioning every other player on this team.
So last year's regular season doesn't count?


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#12
Quote from: Symphony Steve on August 24, 2023, 11:46:25 AMWow.  The 'genius' ex-DC of the Iggles couldn't figure out a way to use him?

Don't know what the Cardinals are doing, but this makes no sense to me.  Especially with all the flotsam and jetsam on their roster. 

Sometimes, someone w/o a position can be someone w/several positions, based on circumstances.
Apparently he showed zero effort in tackling a Kansas City player at the goal line. The Cards gave him away and wanted no part of him. So
I would reserve judgment that the Giants got a steal.


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#13
Does anyone have the tape of him not even attempting to tackle a KC Chief at the goal line last week? If he pulls that stunt here, he won't last one week on this team. The Cards wanted no part of him even eating most of his salary just to get him off the team.


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#14
David Carr was benched for poor play. Murray was terrible pretty much the entire year. When
I see those two ranked higher than DJ, I refuse to put any credibility in this list.


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#15
Big Blue Huddle / Re: Giants 2022 - draft class
August 06, 2023, 07:08:42 PM
Quote from: True Blue on August 04, 2023, 12:46:55 PMI wanted Pickens as well, maybe they made a mistake down the line. But they clearly felt Wandale is a better fit and had a Round 2 grade on him. He started playing well his last few games, hopefully he gets healthy and makes the pick more justified.
Let's also remember Schoen admitted to
"reaching a little for a player or two". One was Robinson whom carried 3rd Round + grades. Clearly a need pick those players have a way of coming back to haunt you.


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