Big Blue Huddle

I wouldn't put too much stock into Diggs' latter half of the year stats.  The Bills changed offensive coordinator after firing Ken Dorsey and the new gameplans and playbook clearly deprioritized Diggs.  That said, the team won a LOT more under that offense.  Feels like wins all around to me.  Bills get something for a player who was disgruntled and potentially no longer a fit and free up cap dollars.  Texans get a good wideout for minimal draft capital. 

That question is so vague is doesn't even bear answering.  "Can the Giants win" - win what?  A Superbowl?  A playoff game?  A regular season game?  They've done 2 of those with Jones.  If the question is can they win a Superbowl with him - probably not - but there are Hall of Fame quarterbacks who we can say the same of.

It's not even remotely the right question to be asking.  The financials and implications around cutting a player loom large and most fans seem to want to forget that the salary cap exists.  The only question is "Should the Giants cut Jones after 2024 and should they draft his successor this year"?  We're about to find out on both.

Russell Wilson is one of the poster boys for the "Tom Brady did it so why can't I" movement that is usually labeled "player empowerment".  With rare exception, it doesn't work because, you guessed it, they're not Tom Brady.  I've highlighted most of this in a previous post but to summarize:

- Russell Wilson tried to get the GM of the Seahawks fired and demanded influence on personnel decisions including free agency and the draft.  The front office there allegedly "couldn't wait to drive him to the airport" when they found a willing trade partner in the Broncos.  With the Broncos he realized some of the power he craved and the results were not good.  In what will arguably go down as the worst trade in NFL history, he lasted 2 seasons, with no winning record, and was so undesirable by that franchise that they were willing to pay a 90 million dollar cap hit rather than retain him.
- Deshaun Watson demanded to have influence when the Texans were searching for a new GM and head coach.  They declined, and he wormed his way out of the franchise.  Despite 40+ allegations of sexual misconduct and a large suspension looming, the Browns traded for him giving up massive draft capital and, in another unprecedented move, a fully guaranteed contract.  After 2 seasons plagued by injury, suspensions and ineffectiveness, 2024 looms large for Watson to reclaim any semblance of credibility.  He'll almost certainly never be able to live up to the Browns' expectations regarding what they gave up to get him.  The juries still out on this one only because he's still with the team, but it might rival Wilson's trade in terms of "worst ever".
- Aaron Rodgers often expressed desperation and exasperation with the Packers with demands on who was drafted by the franchise and signing free agents.  After a cosmetic final season with the Packers in which he was mostly given what he wanted, he was shipped off to the Jets.  After compelling the Jets to sign many aging vets who's best days were behind them because he had personal friendships with them, he was injured less than 10 plays into the season and hasn't seen a snap since.  Season 2 of the Rodgers experiment will start in September.

I think the NFL has largely closed the door on entertaining requests like this.  Lamar Jackson fought a losing battle last off-season with regards to a fully guaranteed contract and the other rising stars at quarterback haven't asked for an expanded role (Burrow, Mahomes, Allen, Herbert, etc). 

Quote from: katkavage on March 28, 2024, 09:51:29 AMI think they believe they are close enough that they they can get their guy. It's now or never for both Schoen and Daboll. In the perfect world they would have gotten their guy two years ago but there wasn't anyone out there and couldn't give up on Jones so quickly.

Possibly - but would he be "their guy" if they crap the bed next season again with a rookie QB at the helm?  That would only be possible if Mara assured them that they have some rope and he understands this is a reset thats going to take a few years.  And would Mara give them that rope a mere year after an offseason that saw them extend a middling QB to big dollars?  Big questions indeed.

You guys need to stop focusing on what Mara's lips are saying and focus more on what likely happened behind the scenes. 

- Does Mara gain anything other than alienating other players if he said "we had no intention of resigning Saquon"?  It doesn't cost him anything to appear to have given it the old college try even if they knew it was unlikely they were going to bring him back.
- With Barkley being on a one year there would have been limited trade value for him.  If a team in good position had wanted him they might have given up a late round pick to get him for the latter half of the season, but mind you, he was struggling with injuries yet again.  Any team that wanted him with the intention of signing him long term during the season also probably would not have wanted to part with a lot of draft picks only to fork over more cash.  Keep in mind that most teams are flying pretty close to the salary cap by the time the season kicks off.
- "We were still trying to win" sure sounds a whole lot better than "we couldn't get much for him on the market, we're paying him anyway, and if we retained him at least we get a compensatory draft pick".

So the options are trade away one of the best players on the team, telegraph that you're giving up on the season for peanuts or keep him around, take your lumps and earn a likely 3rd round pick as a consolation prize.  I think Schoen et al got it right. 

Quote from: Philosophers on March 27, 2024, 01:57:30 PMWhy is it that with Nabers I feel like there may be a maturity issue yet I don't feel that way with Harrison or Odunze?

Shades of OBJ?

I continue to think Brian Thomas is the real gem.

I haven't read or seen anything to indicate that, but generally speaking the LSU players, especially wideouts do seem to have an aura about them that might not be the most team-centric.  Justin Jefferson is probably the best wideout in the NFL but has questions around his mental toughness, his willingness to get back to work after an injury, and loyalty to a team in general.

All that said, I applaud a guy who made the effort and worked out at both his Pro Day and the Combine.  I doubt it will affect either his or Marvin Harrison Jr.'s position, but I like that he put himself out there.

Quote from: kingm56 on March 27, 2024, 07:46:18 AMI have no issues with the NFL's strategy.  The reality is, Network TV viewership has been declining each year; as a byproduct, cable companies are bleeding millions of subscribers each year.  Gen Z's virtual rejection of Network TV is the impetus of cable TVs decline; in fact, I suspect live sporting events is the primary reason they continue to provide television services, which is why Network TV pays a premium for NFL broadcasting rights.  The NFL appears to be at the initial stages of moving from traditional network TV to streaming services, which is the preferred entertainment aperture for younger generations.   

I don't think anyone has a problem with the strategy or streaming in general - the issue is the cost.  Whereas in years past you only needed basic cable + ESPN to see literally every NFL game, in order to see every game now you would need basic cable, ESPN, Prime Video and Peacock.  What's more insulting is that NBC is on basic cable but they intentionally won't broadcast there and will only move to Peacock. I can only imagine a future sometime soon where despite having ESPN, you'll need ESPN+ to see some of those games as well.  And then Disney+ and Paramount+ on and on it goes.  Streaming was supposed to make entertainment cheaper and easier to access.  It has not.

I got really excited for a moment when I saw that the game clock can be challenged upon whether it expired or not but realize this doesn't extend to play clock.  Why limit the application only to the expiration of the game clock, which happens only 4 times a game?  Drives me batty that so many teams get that built in extra half second from when the play clock expires to the snap because the refs are human and can't see the clock and the snap at the same time. 

Quote from: andrew_nyGiants on March 22, 2024, 12:00:39 PMNo offense to anyone here.

If you believe JJ is a solid GET @ #6, I would just like to remind every one of the last QB we took @ #6 overall.

Bigger games, and bigger wins but also carried by the OLINE, running game & defense for JJ.

If they're inclined to take him, they may as well stick with what they have. There's negligible difference, unless it's simply a "restart the clock" pick.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Voice of reason here!  I get the impression there's a faction here of "anyone but Jones!" and just want change for changes sake.  I too don't get the impression that JJ McCarthy represents a short or long term gain over our existing options at QB. 

Quote from: madbadger on March 19, 2024, 11:49:35 AMAs a coach you lose moral authority with your players when you anoint a guy as the starter when his play hasn't earned that level of respect. There isn't a single guy in the locker room that wants a repeat of last year.

By this standard no rookie quarterback should ever start?  I get the point you're trying to make but if I was a veteran on the Giants and I'm presented with:

- Daniel Jones is the starter
- a rookie qb will be the starter
- Drew Lock is the starter

None are terribly appealing but you can just as quickly lose that respect by ditching a guy who the previous season helped win playoff game for a fresh out of college quarterback.

This one doesn't add up for me.  He's not a gifted runner like Hurts.  You'd have to really change your play calling in the event Hurts goes down.  Maybe it's just be but I feel like there were better fits out there.

Kudos to Aaron Donald on a hell of a career. 

Maybe it's just me, and I'm sure this was all in good nature, but Justin Pugh should know to NEVER associate someone with Lawrence Taylor.  That man is in a class of his own with regards to greatness and impact on the game.  Aaron Donald can lay claim to fame as one of the best 3-techniques to ever grace the field along with Warren Sapp and Mean Joe Greene. They still aren't Lawrence Taylor.

I imagine this will ring hollow with upcoming collegiate talent and draftees, and I'm sure the NFLPA would never allow it, but OBJ and others like him should be part of a "Cautionary Tales" segment.  They harp on real life examples related to finance, but don't bring in players who made a fortune as a player and squandered it like Terrell Owens or so many others.  They should absolutely highlight players who were on transcendent career arcs that got cut short, and let the players come to their conclusions as to why.  Some of that is OBJ's injury history, over which you could argue he had little control.  But if you want to get down to dollars, he destroyed his own career through team-hopping too often as a result of immature behavior and a desire to hold himself above the team.  I truly wish him the best, but nothing I see out of him indicates to me he's ever learned to be circumspect.

My goodness I did not expect this reaction.  Why are we bent out of shape that they reassigned 26?  Saquon Barkley is unlikely to ever go into the Giants' Ring of Honor with a limited tenure and injury-riddled seasons.  That's not a personal indictment of Barkley, it's simply the facts.  Even if he did, they don't retire all the Ring of Honor jersey numbers. 

I'm pretty sure the Giants reassigned #21 to Kenny Phillips a year after Tiki Barber retired and he did far more as a Giant than Barkley ever did.

Quote from: andrew_nyGiants on March 14, 2024, 03:53:44 PMWhose against bringing back Leo at a discount?

Trade down 2x from #6 collect picks and build this damn roster!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

I don't know why we don't advocate trading down more often.  Especially if you're in a position to leverage multiple teams bidding against each other, trading down when you don't "like" the board is great.  If we could trade down a few spots and still get someone like a Brock Bowers, that's an absolute coup.  Adds a receiving threat, addresses a questionable position, and we pick up some extra draft capital.