Big Blue Huddle

Even Mel Kiper will tell you that good accuracy in Mock Drafts is impossible to achieve. No one knows what teams are going to do. A better statistic is the accuracy of 1st Round predictions which Kiper (and many others) achieve a 90+% accuracy rate.

In huge demand, Mock Drafts are for entertainment value only.


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Quote from: Gmo11 on May 06, 2023, 11:01:28 AMThere were definitely accusations of him being lazy and regardless you don't get to just skate on the ole "welllll its a crap shoot so sometimes you get bit" line.  If that were the case there would be no such thing as good GMs or bad GMs.  We could train Belichicks dog to make picks if there were no consequences.  That was a bad pick. Plain and simple.  To trade up for that bad pick is even worse.  If Baker had turned into Sauce Gardner we'd be saying what a brilliant move it was right?  If so, then the opposite as to also be true in that he picked an absolute dud and should be criticized for it.  He gets a credit for Dexter.  That guy is outstanding.  But that alone doesn't make this draft an A for me.  Dexter the pick is an A.  Even Slayton as a 5th rounder is pretty close B+ A- level.  But Baker is a straight up F.

I read a lot of scouting reports on Baker and never once did I see a "lazy" report. Don't know where you got that from. Reportedly Baker didn't interview well at the Combine. The Giants felt he was immature but could grow out of it.

There are no perfect prospects. Every player has negatives in their resume. You choose to accept those and hope he can overcome those with his positives. Some do and some don't. Which is why there is a 50% bust rate


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Quote from: Gmo11 on May 06, 2023, 09:40:42 AMDeandre Baker being in this draft immediately eliminates any sort of an A for the grade.  You don't trade up, back into the 1st round, to take a guy that turns out to be THAT bad at football and expect to get an A unless Jones was Mahomes from Day 1.  Dex has turned out great, and Daboll/Kafka have saved Jones or at least made him serviceable, but anything higher than a B for that draft is a bit much.

There was nothing wrong with the Baker pick. He was a shut down corner in the SEC. There were no reports of him getting into trouble at all in his four years there. His bust status just shows the Draft is a crapshoot because you just don't know how these kids are going to turn out.


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Well that's certainly better than last year when the NY Post rated the Giants dead last in the NFL.


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As to UDFAs - ILB Dyontae Johnson Toledo received an unheard of $175,000 signing bonus . That is far and away the largest bonus that I can recall in Giant land. Along with Ivan Pace, there's a good chance one will make the active roster but the lean goes to Johnson with that bonus.


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Quote from: MightyGiants on May 01, 2023, 06:40:35 PMTed,

Did you see this:



or this:

<iframe src="https://www.mockdraftable.com/embed/bryce-ford-wheaton?position=WR&page=GRAPH" width="480" height="651" frameborder="0" scrolling="no"></iframe>



Those are all elite and usually gets a guy drafted

Rich - fair enough that on paper he should have been drafted. On the other hand - what UDFA ever made the Giants and contributed?

What WR is Wheaton going to replace? I couldn't find any.


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Quote from: Rambo89 on May 01, 2023, 06:46:07 AMGettleman was just more of the same in terms of philosophies of team building that had been in place with previous regimes.  It wasn't so much that he was a train wreck as it was more of the same.  As TDToomer pointed out it was just reshuffling chairs on the Titanic.  Different faces with the same approach.

That's not the case with Schoen and this regime which has a different approach with more coach involvement and different things to look for in players and how they want the team to play.  Only thing that is the same is the "collaborative" decision making which isn't really different from how almost all franchises operate.

So the coaches are more involved this year than in previous years I beg to differ. The positional coaches were in the War Room and were reportedly heavily involved in player selection under DG.

The only real difference is in the final decision making. Schoen was used to a small group of final decision makers in Buffalo. DG used more of a consensus model. This was reported right after his hire.


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Quote from: True Blue on April 30, 2023, 09:09:30 AMBoth starting Guards are back, a rookie who missed his season is back, and a third round pick is also returning. They also brought in a top Center

I am unsure how many guards you think can fit in an NFL roster, but Guard was not a need this year. Bredeson/Glow get the job done, Schmitz makes their jobs easier and the young guys can still develop.

Get the job done? Less than average PFF grades. You are happy with two mediocre guards. I am not.


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Quote from: MightyGiants on May 01, 2023, 03:23:23 PMI am never "shocked" when players drop.  I always remember that we don't have access to medicals, interviews, psych testing, background checks, and other vital information.  At best, we know maybe 25% of what the clubs know.

So when players drop, I figure there was a reason for it that I was unaware of.

That all said, I am still trying to figure out why our UDRFA Ford-Wheaton didn't get drafted

Rich - you must have read at least several scouting reports on Wheaton. The three I read listed a lot of negatives with his height being the only positive. He was deemed a late/UDFA by all the reports I read. Who is he going to unseat on our roster? At best PS is my guess unless he absolutely surprises in the preseason.


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Quote from: todge on May 01, 2023, 06:09:02 PMThe narrative surrounding DG, DJ and the Senior Bowl seems to be the most prone to misinterpretation than any other topic I've seen.

You know that scouts were following DJ for years. They compiled two complete scouting reports from two separate scouts. It's customary for the GM to get involved and see for himself firsthand. He didn't as you say, "hear a few things about Jones" and checked him out".  DG saw and interviewed Jones at the Senior Bowl - something that many GMs do. His conclusion was that he very much liked what he saw. So what is the big deal here? The Giants did their due diligence as they do for every top pick.

Yet the media took that story and fabricated untruths such as the Giants never scouted Jones; they only picked Jones because their GM saw him at the Senior Bowl etc etc. With all due respect, your rendition is lacking.

What DG did is customary for every GM. As to Schoen - I like what I see as well. But I think we should give him at least three years until we crown him as the greatest GM in Giant history.


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Quote from: DaveBrown74 on May 01, 2023, 12:35:43 PMOne thing I am liking more and more about Schoen is that he has his core philosophy and his guidelines, but he is open-minded and not steadfastly married to any one guideline. "Tough, Smart, Dependable" does not mean he will never get a player who has had an injury. He is willing to trade up and trade down. He will restructure a player when he feels it makes tactical sense, even though he does not like doing it as a base case. He likes athleticism but that does not mean he will only draft players with an extremely high RAS. He likes younger players but that doesn't mean he won't ever draft a 24 year old (Schmitz). Etc etc.

I just think we have an extremely thoughtful GM who really does his due diligence in a deep, thorough, tireless way. This isn't a guy who just hears a couple things about a player and then go checks him out at the senior bowl and then rubber-stamps him as "my guy" after watching him run five plays. Schoen is doing two-a-days all fall watching college games from the sideline and really doing deep dives into players with his scouts and staff. I am very happy that he's our GM, and I commend ownership on the hire.

The narrative surrounding DG, DJ and the Senior Bowl seems to be the most prone to misinterpretation than any other topic I've seen.

You know that scouts were following DJ for years. They compiled two complete scouting reports from two separate scouts. It's customary for the GM to get involved and see for himself firsthand. DG saw and interviewed Jones at the Senior Bowl. His conclusion was that he very much liked what he saw. So what is the big deal here?

Yet the media took that story and fabricated untruths such as the Giants never scouted Jones; they only picked Jones because their GM saw him at the Senior Bowl etc etc

What DG did is customary for every GM. As to Schoen - I like what I see as well. But I think we should give him at least three years until we crown him as the greatest GM in Giant history.


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Quote from: TDToomer on April 30, 2023, 07:53:53 PMSo Gettleman rearranged the decks chairs on the Titanic. Big deal. The image of him during the 2020 draft at home with 1 small laptop while other GMs decked their home offices with multiple wide screen devices still sums up his regime

That arrangement was during the Covid epidemic. The War Room was alive and well before Covid and was restored once the pandemic eased. All Front Offices practiced distancing so your characterization that the Giants were the only one is just not true.

Quote from: Rambo89 on April 30, 2023, 04:27:00 PMBut you like Will Hernandez and the other "Hog Mollies" the last regime brought in?

Smart Alec comments like this are not welcomed here


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Quote from: MightyGiants on April 30, 2023, 05:21:23 PMIt can be challenging for scouts to find another job.  Many teams want their scouts raw so they can train them in their system and to think how they like their scouts to think.

Maybe if scouts were treated better, paid better, and had better prospects (and the jobs were open competitions rather than having to "know" someone) the draft wouldn't be as much of a "crap shoot"

According to Twitter's Angry Scout Vet, the average compensation for a scout is $100,000.

I know a lot of us believe that DG was a train wreck. But he actually made a lot of sweeping changes to the Scouting Department. He implemented a system where all top rated players were assigned a second scout. He also added a second scout to the West Coast. He also added the Analytics Department to the scouting system.

It is unknown whether Schoen added or subtracted to the Department


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Quote from: MightyGiants on April 30, 2023, 03:45:20 PMHistorically, the Giants have never really been heavy consumers of west coast talent

In the previous regimes, the Giants only had one scout west of the Mississippi. DG added one more. That's the reason why you rarely see anyone from the West coast drafted.


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