Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: katkavage on April 18, 2024, 03:31:23 PMAfter five years, I've seen more than enough. Jones is not horrible. He's not a bust like Zach Wilson. But he's not gonna get you where you want to go either. His ceiling is maybe a 15 ranking. He can't go higher than that and if the Giants keep the status quo, there will be rookies that will be ranked higher than Jones after next year. And yes he says he had a stinger last year. And a torn ACL, which for him to even get to 100 percent will be October at the earliest. As a Giant fan, I hope for better. Simple as that.

I get it.

He does just enough to give hope but lacks the supporting cast to elevate the team. QB Hell.

Quote from: Jclayton92 on April 18, 2024, 02:14:27 PMIt shouldn't though because as much as people try to act like Jones was magnificent in 2022, he wasn't the 3200 yards and 15 tds show that. So if he duplicates 2022 then in my eyes it's even more obvious we need a change. A 6th year Qb that can't throw for 4,000 yards when 4th rd picks come into this league every year and do it with less talent should be alarming.

I like Schoen but he's been burned by Jones twice and it's clear that Mara is still providing a negative influence on the roster.

I truly feel that after the playoff win against Minny, Mara, in some way, shape, or form, let Schoen know that he wanted to get a deal done to keep Jones. Some sort of compromise was made to give Schoen a reasonable out after the second year.

If Jones happens to lead this team to another playoff victory, Schoen will have a helluva time ditching Jones.

Quote from: MightyGiants on April 18, 2024, 01:50:24 PMIf Jones plays in 2024 and plays well, are we still calling it "Gettleman's Giant Gift"   

Yes... it will keep us in QB Hell.

Quote from: MightyGiants on April 18, 2024, 01:42:30 PMThe fun thing about that point is it's a no-lose situation for those claiming the Giants have buyer's remorse.  After all, the inverse won't prove them wrong.  They can clam they were right in either outcome since we can't preclude a lack of drafting a QB is proof of a lack of interest in drafting a QB.

True... they may try to make a move for the guy they want and it doesn't work out. Initial point still holds true: they have buyer's remorse.

Until Jones is a former Giant, he will continue to bite Schoen and Daboll in the tush. Call it Gettleman's Giant Gift.

Quote from: MightyGiants on April 18, 2024, 12:57:25 PMhttps://x.com/TalkinGiants/status/1780999156137361800


https://x.com/TheGiantsWire/status/1780997622553047304

Words < Actions

Giants pick RD 1 QB = Buyer's Remorse

Quote from: Jolly Blue Giant on April 18, 2024, 10:34:55 AMMy take FWIW, is that the coaches analyze everything, and then DJ does what he's told to do based on the play called from the sideline. He isn't Roger Staubach calling plays in the huddle on his own while Landry watches to see what he decides to do. Giants coaches know DJ's limitations, and they also know the limitations of the OL and receivers. And they call the shots based on their own analysis and what they think will work. If DJ was a loose canon who did what he felt like doing instead of sticking to the play calling, he would have been cut a long time ago

I have no worries that DJ can't read the defense or that he processes slow. He's balancing doing what exactly what he's told, while usually running for his life...and don't forget, he has been told to NOT THROW INTERCEPTIONS after a bad start of turning the ball over

These are the reasons I put him into the game manager category.

Plays will not always develop the way they are drawn up on the board. There's a lot of improvisation that happens on every play. The only improv DJ does is to cut and run.

I need my QB to understand the playbook but also know how to deviate from the called play and make sh*t happen.

I think he'll get paid handsomely by another team.

He was a good soldier for us. One of the few bright spots we had.

Quote from: Philosophers on April 18, 2024, 09:17:17 AMHow is a strong running game not included?

I'm guessing it doesn't begin with the letter 'P'... 

Quote from: MightyGiants on April 17, 2024, 01:21:04 PMIf you read the long ESPN article (the link is in my Bill Belichick post from today) it seems a big part of the reason Belichick didn't get another HC job is that the league is moving away from the powerful head coach model (yet the two SB teams are both teams with powerful HCs)

One thing I have noticed since Bowen replaced Martindale as the new DC is that both Daboll and Henderson talked about Bowen being a good teammate.  This tracks with the Giant's accusations that Martindale didn't seek out input from his entire staff but only his trusted lieutenants.

These two things got me thinking.  Which model is the more successful one?   Are teams better off with a management style that is all about collaborations and agreement (sort of management by committee) or are teams better served with one or two powerful voices in the room?

My take is that the collaborative approach is sort of like buying many different types of stocks (diversify your portfolio) to protect from downturns.  The shortcoming to that approach is you tend to mute the upside a bit for the same reason you are protecting your downside.

In other words, if you get the right one or two voices, a team will enjoy higher highs (and risk lower lows) than if they adopt the collaborative approach, which serves as a moderating influence for both good and bad.

I am curious what others think.

The management/leadership team is only as good as its weakest link, whether the style is top-down or collaborative. When you have a Jerry Jones at the top, it's a bottleneck to success. When you have a Martindale in your organization, ideas and suggestions die at his feet and there's no room for improvement.

I don't subscribe to one or the other exclusively. To me, it's situational, just as much as a DC's plan depends on the opponent and the situation. But the key is having the personnel who fit well into the management scheme the organization chooses to employ. And yes, there can be a combination of both.

Quote from: Giant Obsession on April 16, 2024, 10:29:41 PMAnd equally tough when your roster on the whole just plain lacks talent and depth.

But drafting a new QB with pick 6 should rectify all that

Whatever the pick is at 6 won't change an entire roster. But hopefully it's a huge upgrade at that spot and they can focus on the other areas of need.

Of course he is willing to spend. I mean, wasn't he paying three head coaches at one time?? 

Quote from: Ed Vette on April 16, 2024, 11:52:14 AMBased on all this and however you decide to digest some or all of it, does this look like a Franchise that would have long-term plans for Daniel Jones? Is this a year they would pass on drafting a QB somewhere in the first round?

In answering this question, another question needs to be answered first: Which year was the anomaly: 2022 or 2023?

Me? I see 2022 as the anomaly. The coaching staff had to bring in David Copperfield's smoke and mirrors to hide Jones's deficiencies. The team had the second-most 1-score victories behind the Vikings. The Vikings lost to us and we lost to the Eagles. Smoke and mirrors can win some close games. But beating a more talented team requires more talent.

I agree that they were very optimistic about creating a follow-up game plan for Jones while giving him a little more leash. After the opening drive against Dallas came up short, the wheels in his mind fell off.

There are a couple of reasons that I see that will keep Schoen and Daboll from getting a QB this year:
- They aren't high on any of the prospects
- The cost is too much to get him

If there is a QB they like this year and they can make a deal to get him, it will happen.

Matches the QB's jersey. 

Quote from: MightyGiants on April 16, 2024, 11:35:20 AMQ. I'm curious, what do you look for? What's important for you when you do go through that quarterback process? I know a lot of people need to see them throw the -- some coaches say I need to hear them throw. When you go through that what's important to you?

MIKE KAFKA: There is a lot of things that are important to me in a quarterback. You know, leadership, just that ability to kind of control a room, control a huddle. That kind of "it" factor. You look for that. The more you talk to them the more you get comfortable with them.

A lot of times it's -- the first time you meet somebody it's like maybe one of the other parties may not be as comfortable, so you try to have these exposures with guys so you can really understand how they tick.

You want to understand what fires them up and what things maybe give them issues so you have a plan as a coach to build a guy up and how you can kind of prevent maybe some weak spots. If they have a weakness and I have a strength, I can cover up his weakness with my strength and vice versa.

You try to find that "it" factor with a guy you want to be around that you know is going to make the other guys better around him. Whether it's the quarterback room or another position, some guys just have that. I know we have that already in our quarterback room with Daniel, with Drew, with Tommy. Those are guys that command and do a hell of a job in the huddle and command the leadership of the team.

Those are guys you want to be around.

I don't know about Lock but I think DeVito has more of a charismatic quality about him than Jones. I know Jones is well liked in the locker room. I can see DeVito being more liked. If only he had the on-field talent to go with it.

Quote from: MightyGiants on April 15, 2024, 01:37:12 PMTim,

I have zero problems since he defined what he meant by the "It" factor

Oh OK. I read it differently than you did. At any rate, sounds like Kafka is all-aboard on the Daboll train.