Big Blue Huddle

That type of analysis fails to consider that it is a team sport. 

The ratings of each player failure to take into account the other players with whom they play.  They can't just be added together to get a final total.

A team is like a car motor. Every part must perform (and fit with the other parts) according to specifications or the engine (team) will not run efficiently.

Bob

Quote from: MightyGiants on April 19, 2024, 02:27:25 PMThe other thing that struck me is that Jones has never had the opportunity to work with an offensive line that was in the top half (not top third, just half) of the league.  Talk about being in an unappealing position.

... or an elite NFL WR. Bob

Quote from: zephirus on April 19, 2024, 11:11:19 AMMost Giants fans (and fans in general) have such a fundamental lack of understanding of draft positioning and value I couldn't imagine why we would care what they think. Most fans seem to think the addition of a wide receiver is transformative, and it's typically not. The rest of the fans think Daniel Jones sucks, and he mostly does, but they're in such a rush to get his successor that they're not really concerned with who that is, or what the team might have to sacrifice to get there.  Trade up for JJ McCarthy?  It only takes one team, but I would imagine most draft boards have him nowhere near the top 10 in terms of value.

lee: I couldn't pass up a rare chance to slightly disagree with you. lol

In the case of the Giants, having a WR good enough to force the defense to put two men on him (A J Brown is an example from the recent past) can be transformative, by (1) giving the QB an outside "security blanket" and deep threat; and (2) by making it dangerious for defenses to blitz excessively and spy on running QBs. 

Although I agree adding a WR generally won't change as much as fans might believe, adding a true elite NFL WR seriously boosts an offense's ability to produce points, especially when the chips are down.

Bob

Rich: I don't want to choose between "star collecting" and "hole-filling."

Giants are high up enough in this draft to find a star to "collect" who also fills a hole.  That would be WR.

If they had Pick Two (or maybe Three), I'd also include QB in the equation... but they don't. Anyway, IMO they lack sufficient draft capital (picks this year and next) to make a decent offer for Pick Three. IMO they would have to throw in a decent to very good player (or two) as well, and we already have enough holes.

Bob

That's as close to what I think as it gets. 

Only one QB (Daniels for me) would make me think about trading up (if he got past Bears & Commodes).

It's clear to me Giants need an elite WR to make the rest of our receiving corps appear to belong in the NFL.

Bob

Quote from: President Rick on April 18, 2024, 03:18:22 PMif the first post is true, there might be some bidding up among interested teams.  TRADE DOWN.  I'd rather have 2 red chippers than a 'blue' chip bust, and those qb's have bust written all over them

Rick: My hope is that the Vikings will be the caller because they have two first round picks this year to give us. 

I'm not one of those rooting for a trade down, but that might be a tough deal to refuse, especially if the Giants' absolute favorite QB and their absolute favorite WR are both gone (highly likely).

Incidentally, no one has reported that Vikings want Pick Six. They want Pick Three so far as I can tell.

Bob

Those other teams believe what I believe... pick six is a good slot to be in this year. Bob

Quote from: MightyGiants on April 17, 2024, 03:07:57 PMI really appreciate the idea and effort, Bob.  You added real value.

One small correction: those rounds are Brugler's player grade, not where he thinks they will be drafted.

Rich: I understand what you mean but I follow him player-by-player, all the way through each round every year and he has an incredible accuracy rate. Absent a crazy "run" on a particular position (which no one can forecast) he is as dead-on as humanly possible, IMO, so I just treat his chart as though he's making predictions, and any pick at a level lower than he has them listed as a steal. Bob

PS. I made a slight adjustment to one of the sentences in my post to make it "lean" in a direction more reflective of what you're talking about.

Quote from: MightyGiants on April 17, 2024, 02:24:25 PMI have heard some things about Nabers from reliable sources.  I can't share what I heard, but knowing what I know, it's hard to say if the issues are enough to pass on a valuable player.  I would need the NFL and Giants background check, and I would need to speak to the man firsthand to really say if the concerns raised are enough to pass on him in the draft.

Rich: If they do draft Nabers, IMO there are no issues that would have deterred one of us from taking him. Bob

Quote from: uconnjack8 on April 17, 2024, 02:17:05 PMAre the personality things mentioned about Nabers real?  If so, I would rather see Odunze.  If those are just BS, then I am fine with either one. 

uconn: I got the same vibe, and the Giants will likely answer the question for us on draft day.

It's almost impossible they won't have a choice of the three WR's minus the one taken by the Cardinals.

If not, then the Giants will have a choice of two highly-rated (not by me) QB's available, which doubles the odds that the QB they're hoping will fall to them (if any) will be there.

Bob

PS. My assumption is that one of the first five picks this year will not be a QB or WR (likely Joe Alt), which as a last resort would mean that Alt will be there (Evan Neal's worst nightmare? lol).

Quote from: MightyGiants on April 17, 2024, 11:41:38 AMNote: To save typing, I labeled hi 1st round players AND mid 1st round players "1st"

1 Drake Maye, QB North Carolina --- 1st
2 J.J. McCarthy, QB Michigan --- lo 1st to hi 2nd
3 Michael Penix, Jr., QB Washington --- lo 2nd to hi 3rd 
4 Jayden Daniels, QB LSU --- 1st   
5 Bo Nix, QB Oregon --- mid 2nd to hi 3rd
6.Spencer Rattler, QB SouthCarolina --- mid 3rd

7 Marvin Harrison Jr., WR Ohio St --- 1st
8 Malik Nabers, WR LSU --- 1st
9 Rome Odunze, WR Washington --- 1st

10 Trey Benson, RB Florida St --- mid 3rd

11 Ben Sinnott, TE Kansas St --- mid 4th
12 Theo Johnson, TE Penn St --- mid 3rd

13 Joe Alt, OT Notre Dame --- 1st
14 Giovanni Manu, OT Univ of British Columbia --- (not on Brugler's big board)
15 Cooper Beebe, OG Kansas St --- mid 2nd
16 Jordan Morgan, OL Arizona --- lo 1st to hi 2nd

17 Adisa Isaac, Edge Penn State --- lo 2nd to hi 3rd
18 Dallas Turner, Edge Alabama --- 1st
19 Chop Robinson, Edge Penn State --- lo 1st to hi 2nd

20 Kristian Boyd, DT Northern Iowa --- mid 6th
21 Maason Smith, DT LSU --- lo 2nd to hi 3rd
22 Jer'Zhan (Johnny) Newton, DT Illinois --- lo 1st to hi 2nd
23 Pheldarius Payne, DT Virginia Tech --- (not on Brugler's big board)

24 Tyrice Knight, LB UTEP --- lo 5th to hi 6th

25 Chau Smith-Wade, CB Washington St --- mid 6th
26 Max Melton, CB Rutgers --- lo 2nd to hi 3rd
27 Andru Phillips, CB Kentucky --- lo 2nd to hi 3rd
28 Evan Williams, DB Oregon --- lo 5th to hi 6th
29 Kool-Aid McKinstry, CB Alabama --- lo 1st to hi 2nd
30 Chigozie Anusiem, CB Colorado St --- mid to lo 7th

Above, I've (hopefully) added value to the list by showing the round in which Brugler wouldn't be surprised to see each guy being selected.

This combo chart is a very good guide to, or indicator of, which positions Giants will look at in various rounds.,

It also (obviously) shows where in the draft they intend to emphasize defense (same for offense).

Bob

Quote from: TONKA56 on April 17, 2024, 12:39:17 PMUgh. 

I'm guessing you wanted to see a QB (probably Maye) to the Giants.  Am I close?  Bob

It could happen that way.  IMO the earliest likely team to bust his mock draft would be the Cardinals.

I think the Patriots will take a QB (don't know who ) and Vikings will trade up (with whom is a burning question... could be any of the Chargers, Patriots and Giants... in that order of likelihood).

I'm surprised to see Odunze ranked below Nabers, but it's actually a good guess that Odunze goes to the Bears.

Bob

Quote from: MightyGiants on April 17, 2024, 11:34:04 AMI've created an integrated listing of the 18 first-round quarterback prospects since 2020, using my own grades and actual draft position.
https://www.the33rdteam.com/2024-nfl-draft-where-would-top-qbs-rank-among-recent-top-prospects/

Rich: Was Joe Burrows ranked higher than Trevor Lawrence? I think not. Lawrence was a consensus top-rated QB in his draft, so I suppose it's fair to compare Lawrence to Williams (this year's consensus top-rated QB), but there is no value in a chart that shows Burrows ranked ahead of Lawrence when talking about the draft. Bob

Rich: To elaborate upon the question posed by @PSUBeirut ...

He seems to be ranking veterans where he believes they fall (best to worst) among themselves, then inserting this year's group in where he believes they will fall in the future.

OK, but IMO the chart is only useful for showing us HIS speculation of how good each rookie will be, compared to HIS view of how good each veteran has been during his career. 

Having two variables like that is unnecessary (and certainly contentious in the case of the veterans, as can be seen by the reactions of some of our members).  The variable ranking how good each vet is relative to the others adds nothing.

It's the same as saying (using his rankings, not mine), "I rank this year's QB's as follows: Williams, Maye, Daniels, McCarthy, Nix and Penix."  He could have then added something like this: "I think my favorite (Williams) will turn out better than Stroud but not as well as Lawrence."

Bob