The new baseball season has started and I've begun my 47th year of umpiring. WOW. I still get a thrill out of starting a new season, being back on the field.
So, with a new season, comes a few rules questions and some knotty problems, I thought I would pass on.
One out, runners on 1st and third. Better hits a fly ball to deep center. Center fielder makes a circus catch and throws to first to double the runner off. The runner on third had tagged up and scored, but he left a bit early.
The 3rd out was made on the play at 1st base. Does the run count?
While the team was trotting off the field, the 1st baseman happened to step on 3rd base. Would the umpire call out the runner who left early?
I assume the first baseman had the ball in his hand when he stepped on third?
Anyway, I doubt that it matters. I think the run counts.
Jim
I'll see if anyone else wants to chime in before I give the answer.
Jim
sorry it took me so long to respond.
The run does score as the play at 1st base (to double the runner off) is considered a timing play. Like if that out is recorded before the runner scored then the run would not count.
I mentioned the other part because we had a big discussion about this at a meeting we had. If the defensive team saw the runner from 3rd leave early and appealed even AFTER the 3rd out was made on the play at first, the umpires can recognize a so called 4th out and rule the runner out for leaving early and no would score.
The discussion we had was that one of our umpires said if the 1st baseman had even inadvertently stepped on 3rd, on his way off the field, the 3rd base umpire would call the runner out for leaving early. Many other disagreed, saying that the team has to announce to the umpire that they are appealing and what the appeal is. We did check and that is the correct ruling. A fielder isn't entitled to get an out just by innocently stepping on a base. he has to make the appeal the correct way.
Stay tuned for the next one.
Next question
Runner on 1st base and one out. With the batter up, and the pitcher in his wind up, the runner breaks for 2nd. The pitcher continues his delivery and the runner has second stolen before the ball even gets to home plate. The pitch then gets by the catcher and goes into the dugout.
What base is the runner entitled to?
This seems too simple to me, so I'm probably wrong. But, here goes anyway. I don't think the runner is "entitled" to anything. Since it was a pitch that got by the catcher, it's a PB or WP. So, the runner can go as far as he can.
Once the ball goes in the dugout it's a dead ball. If the base runner is aleady on 2nd he gets awarded 3rd base. That's my guess.
OOPS!! I didn't read that it went into the dugout. That's what happens when you get old. ~X(
Isn't it TWO bases when it goes into the dugout? Since the runner doesn't really have 2nd base til the play is over, I think he goes to 3rd base (two bases from 1st base).
The key is it is a PITCHED ball and the runner is entitled to ONE base if the ball goes into dead area. (you were correct Jim, if the ball stayed in live area). There is an old rule of thumb, one from the mound, two from the field, which makes this a bit simpler. The 'trick' to this question is where the runner was AT THE TIME OF THE PITCH. We use this question in our umpiring school final test because it is meant to try and fool people. The question is worded such that since the runner did NOT have second base before the ball was pitched, he is only entitled to one base, which would be second base.
Sorry the deception
Our next puzzler is a bit easier.
Batter is a switch hitter
Pitcher is ambidextrous
Can the batter switch from one batters box to the other in his time at bat?
Can the pitcher switch from righty to lefty during a batters turn at bat?
I would have to say YES to both questions.
And you would be 1/2 correct.
A batter CAN switch from one side of the plate to the other, provided the pitcher isn't on the rubber.
BUT the pitcher cannot switch from being a lefty to a righty during a batters term at bat. A pitcher can switch before the batter gets up, but once he takes his position for his time at bat the pitcher has to go with one arm. He can switch for each batter, but not once the batter gets in the box.
Next question
Runner on 1st base. Pitcher goes into his wind up from the set position. Just as he is about to deliver the pitcher, the batter calls time and steps out o0f the box. The pitcher sees the batter stepping out and stops his delivery mid step. The offensive manager wants a balk called as he didn't deliver the pitch. Would he be correct?
Correct me if I'm wrong, Lenny. But, isn't a called time out only official when the umpire grants it? IF that is the case, then there would be no time out when the batter steps out of the box. Given that, had the pitcher completed his pitch, a strike or call would've been called by the ump. So, also given that, he did perform a balk.
You are right Jim, except for the balk part. In layman's terms, 2 wrongs don't make a right. Since the batter stepped out of the box illegally and caused the pitcher to balk, the balk is ignored.
There are many managers-on the HS and sandlot levels that simply do not know this rule and I have seen them want to protest ma game because they insist that a balk is a balk and should be called. But it does say specifically in the rule book that an infraction like this play is NOT a balk, and I have shown that to several coaches,l and they learned something that day.
Not a question today but a very interesting situation happened in today's game.
Runners on 1st and 3rd, 1 out, batter hits a long fly to left. The catch is made and the runner from 3rd, tagged up and scored. They thought the runner had left early and want to appeal that runner. Since time was called, the pitcher had to go back on the rubber to put the ball in play. Once the plate umpire said play, the runner from 1st broke for 2nd. The pitcher turned and threw to 2nd to retire the runner, but now, since he made a play, they cannot appeal that runner from 3rd. That team won 4-3. The coach stole a run and a win.
BTW, the plate umpire told me he did leave early and would have called him out on appeal, had they made the appeal.
Let's get back to a few more questions
Men on 1st and 2nd. Batter hits a ground ball to second. The runner bumps into the 2nd baseman, who is clearly in the base path, while he is trying to field the ball. The ball goes into the outfield and all are safe. Whats the call??
I'm always wrong but I'll give it yet another try (a guess actually)......runner going to second is called out for interfering with a possible double play. Batter called out as well. Runner going from second to third is sent back to second.
EXCELLENT Steve, right on all counts.
The fielder ALWAYS has the right to make a play, no matter if he is in the baseline or not. It is the responsibility of the runner to avoid him. If contact is made while the fielder is trying to make a play, the runner is ALWAYS out. Since it was a possible DP, the umpire has the option to call the batter/runner also out, but, as I said, that is strictly an umpire decision. Depending on the level, I would make that DP call at most levels except very young kids, where a DP is something unusual.
Thanks Lenn. I was reasonably certain about the "double-play," but less sure about sending the other runner back to second.
I did forget to mention the other runner. Yes, he has to go back as the offensive team cannot gain an advantage when they are called for an interference..
Our next question actually happened to me a couple of years ago.
Runner on 3rd with 1 out. Batter hits a fly ball to center. Runner thinking there are 2 outs runs on the hit and crosses home. His team mates are yelling at him to go back as there is only 1 out. The center fielder drops the ball but the runner has returned to 3rd. Confusing ==yes.
Question is, does the run count, or is it nullified by the runner going back to 3rd.
As I said, I had this happen in a game and really had to look it up in the rule book for a definite answer.
Here I go again - shooting off the hip.
I assume the outfielder dropped the ball as he was trying to catch it. If that's the case, then the run scores. If he drops the ball after catching it, then a throw by him to 3rd base would put the runner out. However, if the throw to 3rd doesn't beat the runner back, then the runner is safe with no run scored. But, the runner has to touch home plate on his way back.
Jim
You are basically correct. The idea of the question was if the runner is allowed to return to 3rd AFTER he has touched home plate and the answer is NO. Once he scores, he cannot go back to 3rd under any circumstances. So if his team yelled for him to go back, and he did, it wouldn't mean anything and his team could be called for interference if it did involve another play.
Even if he left early on a tag up, and scored, and, say when the ball was thrown in, it was misplayed and went into the stands. The runner still could not go back to 3rd to avoid the appeal. If the defense appealed he left early he would be out and there would be nothing he can do to avoid it.
Our next question
Runners on 1st and 2nd with 1 out. batter hit's an infield fly and the umpire calls Infield Fly, the batter is out. But the SS, while trying to catch the ball, bumps into the runner who is standing on 2nd base. The runner does all he could to avoid the field while remaining on his base. The ball drops and the runners try to advance. The SS picks up the ball and while trying to throw the runner out at 3rd, throw it into the dugout.
What action do the umpires take on this?
since no one took a shot at thins answer, let me explain.
The runner is entitled to his base and as long as he doesn't intentionally interfere he is allowed to remain where he is with no penalty. Even though the fielder has a right to field a ball, the runner did try to avoid him and still stay on his base, so there is NO interference call. The batter is out on the infield fly call. If the ball isn't caught, the runners advance at their own risk and anything that happens after the ball not being caught is regulation. Since the ball was thrown into dead territory each runner is allowed to advance 2 bases. So the man on second scores and the other runner is placed on 3rd base.
We'll try a few more to see if anyone is still interested
One out, man on first-- 3-2 count on the batter. On the pitch, the runner breaks for second. The batter swings, fouls the ball off the catchers chest protector, up in the air and he catches it before it hits the ground.
second baseman tells the runner that it was a foul ball, runner starts to return to first so the catcher throws the ball to first and they tag the runner out.
What's the call?
A batter hits a dink towards the mound. He drops his bat in fair territory in front of the plate. The ball hits the ground in front of the mound and rolls back towards home and is stopped by the bat in fair territory. There is no doubt that the ball would have rollled foul if not for the bat being where it was. Is the ball in play?
Quote from: LennG on April 26, 2016, 05:13:53 PM
We'll try a few more to see if anyone is still interested
One out, man on first-- 3-2 count on the batter. On the pitch, the runner breaks for second. The batter swings, fouls the ball off the catchers chest protector, up in the air and he catches it before it hits the ground.
second baseman tells the runner that it was a foul ball, runner starts to return to first so the catcher throws the ball to first and they tag the runner out.
What's the call?
Any ball that hit's off the catchers equipment and then is caught in air is a FOUL ball. The only way the batter can be out or the ball stays in play is for the ball to hit the catcher's mitt first. If this happens and then goes up in the air and is caught, it is a live ball and in play. In the example I gave, the runner is not out and has to go back to 1st, as with any foul ball.
Quote from: LennG on April 27, 2016, 09:56:49 PM
A batter hits a dink towards the mound. He drops his bat in fair territory in front of the plate. The ball hits the ground in front of the mound and rolls back towards home and is stopped by the bat in fair territory. There is no doubt that the ball would have rolled foul if not for the bat being where it was. Is the ball in play?
It is a live ball and in play. The rule of thumb most all umpires rule plays like this by--it the ball hits the bat which may be lying in fair territory, the ball is live and in play. If the bat hits the ball, then it is dead and the batter would be out for interference.
Again, to make it simple, if a ball hits a bat on the ground, it is OK
if the bat hits a ball (in play) then it is an out.
Seems there is little interest right now, so I'll hold up on further questions. If anyone wants some more, just say the word and I'll be more then happy to oblige.
Happened last night
Runner on 2nd, outs mean nothing, pitch to batter is in the dirt and gets away from the catcher, runner tries to advance to 3rd. batter not knowing where the ball is tries to move out of the way of the catcher and accidentally kicks the ball into the dugout.
Anyone with a call here?
A lesson for future umpires and maybe others also.
Last night I ahd a Lillte Leabue game with one of our rookie umpires. I was the base umpire.
Situation, 2nd and 3rd, 2 out, batter hits a sharp 1 hp to the shortstop, he makes a great play sees the runner from 2nd going by and tries to tag him. Yhe runner evades the tag, but I felt he ran out of his baseline and called him out. Now the coach comes out to ask if the run had scored (the runner from 3rd was running home). I told him it was a timing play, if the runner crossed the plate before the man was called out, he would score. We appealed to the plate umpire, who is suppose to be watching this, but he didn't see it. (rookie, remember). Common sense told me that it would be near impossible for the guy to have made it home before I immediately called the runner out, so we didn't score the run.
It is an unusually situation as there is usually a put out and then see if the runner scores instead of a verbal out.
Anyway, I believe we got the call correct, even if the coach didn't see it that way.
The joys of working with rookies.
Quote from: LennG on August 16, 2016, 06:11:21 PM
Happened last night
Runner on 2nd, outs mean nothing, pitch to batter is in the dirt and gets away from the catcher, runner tries to advance to 3rd. batter not knowing where the ball is tries to move out of the way of the catcher and accidentally kicks the ball into the dugout.
Anyone with a call here?
Ball on ground is still a pitch as it was not caught by catcher.
kick was unintentional.
Any pitch ball goes out of play runner gets 1 base and batter is up for next pitch in the count.
That is what I originally thought. I was wrong as well.
It is interference by the batter, even though it was unintentional. He prevented the catcher from making a play and there has to be a penalty.
Batter is out and runner goes back.
As I said, fooled me too.
Quote from: LennG on September 09, 2016, 08:34:24 PM
That is what I originally thought. I was wrong as well.
It is interference by the batter, even though it was unintentional. He prevented the catcher from making a play and there has to be a penalty.
Batter is out and runner goes back.
As I said, fooled me too.
Late to the party on this. As I read, I figured it had to be interference. However, to me, this one that is hard to judge without seeing the play. Especially in LL or even HS, where you often have very tight backstops and wild pitches/passed balls can really bounce around. Had the ball stopped moving, did the catcher have any chance to get to the ball and make a play, how far was the ball from the batter's box? I likely would have been wrong, but all these would come into play in my thinking if I had to make the call.
Quote from: LennG on September 09, 2016, 11:12:29 AM
A lesson for future umpires and maybe others also.
Last night I ahd a Lillte Leabue game with one of our rookie umpires. I was the base umpire.
Situation, 2nd and 3rd, 2 out, batter hits a sharp 1 hp to the shortstop, he makes a great play sees the runner from 2nd going by and tries to tag him. Yhe runner evades the tag, but I felt he ran out of his baseline and called him out. Now the coach comes out to ask if the run had scored (the runner from 3rd was running home). I told him it was a timing play, if the runner crossed the plate before the man was called out, he would score. We appealed to the plate umpire, who is suppose to be watching this, but he didn't see it. (rookie, remember). Common sense told me that it would be near impossible for the guy to have made it home before I immediately called the runner out, so we didn't score the run.
It is an unusually situation as there is usually a put out and then see if the runner scores instead of a verbal out.
Anyway, I believe we got the call correct, even if the coach didn't see it that way.
The joys of working with rookies.
I had a similar play, but it wasn't with a rookie. Len, you might have known him, as he has since passed, but worked for a few different outfits in LI and Queens during his time.
FABL, College Wood Bat League. Bases loaded, 2 outs. I am behind the plate, 2 man mechanics, partner was in C Position. Routing ground ball to the SS, who fields it very close to baseline. As he grabs ball, sees runner going to 3rd so sticks his arm out to make the tag. Runner is in front of the fielder, so from behind the plate, I can't actually "see" the tag. Now, here's the problem. My partner, anticipating the throw to first, turned toward first before the tag was attempted. Now what? I had to make the call, and I called him out. The player was a XXXXX, had problems with him for 2 seasons, so of course he wasn't willing to accept it. I tossed him and I think his coach actually kicked him off the team by the end of the season.