QuoteWith the 23rd overall selection in the first round of the 2017 NFL draft, the New York Giants select
Rich: If true, I wonder whether the Giants might not want to play him on the outside (i.e., cover the TE, rush the passer from the flanks). Bob
Quote from: Bob In PA on March 27, 2017, 10:37:46 AM
Rich: If true, I wonder whether the Giants might not want to play him on the outside (i.e., cover the TE, rush the passer from the flanks). Bob
Bob,
For the Giants, he could be an outstanding Will Backer (although a bit awkward when you defensive captain is the starting Will). I would see him being the sort of playmaking LB the Giants have lacked since Jessie Armstead departed.
I would have said no way the Giants pick an LB #1 but after hearing the love John Mara has for Flowers, LB may be their No. 1 priority :surprise:
Quote from: WheresDayne on March 27, 2017, 10:48:42 AM
I would have said no way the Giants pick an LB #1 but after hearing the love John Mara has for Flowers, LB may be their No. 1 priority :surprise:
Yeah, I don't get this either. I would expect seven other positions picked before Linebacker. Do any of you draftnics have Cunningham ahead of McCaffrey or Garett Bolles in your First Round Grades?
Quote from: Vette on March 27, 2017, 10:56:57 AM
Yeah, I don't get this either. I would expect seven other positions picked before Linebacker. Do any of you draftnics have Cunningham ahead of McCaffrey or Garett Bolles in your First Round Grades?
Ed: I'm no draftnik, but in my book McCaffrey is far ahead of Cunningham and Bolles. He's a PLAYER. IMO there will be stiff competition for his services on draft day, and maybe some intrigue and skulduggery, too. I think the Patriots and the Packers both want him big-time (and maybe McAdoo too? Who knows!). Bob
Here are the number grades from NFL.com (I think they do a pretty good job on their grades and scouting reports) on the three players Ed mentioned.
LB Cunningham, Zach 5.9
RB McCaffrey, Christian 5.9
OT Bolles, Garett 6.1
when I look at what Dallas did with Elliot, I can see McCaffery. When I look at our OL, I can see Bolles. When I look at this list of 3 players, I just don't see Cunningham, especially if the other 2 are available as well.
I am having a hard time wrapping my head around the McCaffery pick. What does McCaffery bring to the team that isn't already covered by Vereen and Perkins?
Quote from: MightyGiants on March 27, 2017, 11:52:30 AM
I am having a hard time wrapping my head around the McCaffery pick. What does McCaffery bring to the team that isn't already covered by Vereen and Perkins?
Rich: IMO, if he is still there at pick 23, he will be the best player available (because the few whom I believe are better players will be long gone).
He can run, he can block, he can catch, he is smart, he is tough, he is strong, he knows the route-tree, he can get open . . . and most importantly he makes plays.
I would take him over all but a very small handful of players who are available for the NFL draft this season, and with a much higher pick.
Bob
Ten different analysts will have ten different picks for the Giants. And Jerry is going to multiple pro days. I can post something too that says that my "sources" suggest the Giants will pick _____.
Maybe he will be right in the end, but 33 years of drafts with no 1st round LB and the Giants' preference for DE and CB suggests he will not be correct. Besides, who knows of someone of interest will slide to 23 and throw off the entire assumption he has.
Quote from: MightyGiants on March 27, 2017, 11:52:30 AM
I am having a hard time wrapping my head around the McCaffery pick. What does McCaffery bring to the team that isn't already covered by Vereen and Perkins?
I agree. Three different east/west RBs with the addition of MCaffery? The Giants need a north/south, run-between-the-tackles guy to compliment Vereen and Perkins. The signing of Perkins probably resulted in McCaffery being off the Giants' Board.
As to Cunningham - he would be a fine addition as a pass rushing Will. But that would also mean the Giants are handing the starting OLT job to Flowers in hopes he will rub a genie's bottle and miraculously be endowed with quick, nimble feet and lateral agility. They could go into the 2nd and 3rd Round to grab some depth at OLT, but I don't see anyone who would be nothing more than a developmental guy at that ledger.
Quote from: MightyGiants on March 27, 2017, 10:10:30 AM
http://www.espn.com/blog/new-york-giants/post/_/id/51267/zach-cunningham-would-be-fine-selection-for-giants-in-nfl-draft (http://www.espn.com/blog/new-york-giants/post/_/id/51267/zach-cunningham-would-be-fine-selection-for-giants-in-nfl-draft)
There were 60 scouts representing 26 teams at his Pro Day. So does that mean that all 26 teams would like to draft Cunningham? Jordan - being at a Pro Day means there is interest in learning more about the prospect. But it has little correlation with that player actually being drafted. 1st Rounders Amukumara and Phillips have stated that they never once heard from any rep from the Giants.
Quote from: MightyGiants on March 27, 2017, 11:52:30 AM
I am having a hard time wrapping my head around the McCaffery pick. What does McCaffery bring to the team that isn't already covered by Vereen and Perkins?
McCaffrey is a good player but he's being overrated by a lot of Giants fans.
Vereen will get hurt at some point and McCaffrey can step into that role, but is that where you should be investing a first round pick?
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I'm locked in right now on Zach Cunningham if he falls to No. 23.
Or maybe the Giants learned, from past years, and are using disinformation to avoid having someone they really want snatched away by someone trading up ahead of them.
Hey, a guy can dream.
Quote from: COGiantFan on March 27, 2017, 02:40:56 PM
Or maybe the Giants learned, from past years, and are using disinformation to avoid having someone they really want snatched away by someone trading up ahead of them.
Hey, a guy can dream.
CO: You and me both. Bob
Maybe after years of having telegraphed their player targets and watching teams swoop in front of them to take their players, the Giants have gotten smart snd started blowing smoke.
Quote from: MP21WAYS2PAY on March 27, 2017, 04:33:08 PM
Maybe after years of having telegraphed their player targets and watching teams swoop in front of them to take their players, the Giants have gotten smart snd started blowing smoke.
I am curious. What have the Giants done or said that would be considered "telegraphing"? About 100% of the media stuff surrounding Draft picks are articles like Ranaan's.
If you read the article closely, Jordan is basing his so-called "prediction" on two things: Reese was at his Pro Day and talks with league sources. There is no "inside" leak from anyone in the Giants' organization that he has referred to. Besides, what scout would spill the beans to a reporter like Ranaan that they are focusing in on Cunningham?
As others have alluded to - this is just one of many predictions that will be focusing on who the Giants might draft. But if the truth be told, Ranaan doesn't know anymore about who the Giants are going to draft than anyone on this Board.
Quote from: todge on March 27, 2017, 05:11:44 PM
I am curious. What have the Giants done or said that would be considered "telegraphing"? About 100% of the media stuff surrounding Draft picks are articles like Ranaan's.
If you read the article closely, Jordan is basing his so-called "prediction" on two things: Reese was at his Pro Day and talks with league sources. There is no "inside" leak from anyone in the Giants' organization that he has referred to. Besides, what scout would spill the beans to a reporter like Ranaan that they are focusing in on Cunningham?
As others have alluded to - this is just one of many predictions that will be focusing on who the Giants might draft. But if the truth be told, Ranaan doesn't know anymore about who the Giants are going to draft than anyone on this Board.
Yes and they don't even know yet.
Cunningham = overrated
Quote from: COGiantFan on March 27, 2017, 02:40:56 PM
Or maybe the Giants learned, from past years, and are using disinformation to avoid having someone they really want snatched away by someone trading up ahead of them.
Hey, a guy can dream.
CO, somehow I missed your post and Bob's respose and wrote the same thing. We must share the same conspiratorial mindset.
Quote from: todge on March 27, 2017, 05:11:44 PM
I am curious. What have the Giants done or said that would be considered "telegraphing"?
2016
Titans trade up to 8 to take Conklin
Bears trade up to 9 to take Floyd
Giants take Apple at 10
2013
49ers trade up to 18 to take Eric Reid
Giants pick Pugh at 19
2012
Bucs trade up to 31 to take Doug Martin
Giants draft David Wilson at 32
The clearest example here is the Bears, who were at 11, and moved up to 9. The only reason for them to move up was to get in front of the Giants, therefore, they knew the Giants would select Floyd. Did they know that because Jerry Reese was drooling on his shoes at Floyds pro day? I don't know. But the Bears were convinced enough by something to give up their 4th round pick. The case of Doug Martin may have been due to Mike Sullivan joining Tampa before the draft and spilling the beans.
Telegraphing may be as basic as the GM as tracking the GMs visits. It was well documented that Reese only attends a hand full of pro days, and last year that included Floyds, the year before was Flowers. It is not unreasonable to expect the Giants realized that gives other teams a clear indication of who the team is targeting, and this year they decided to throw everyone off the scent by feigning interest in another player.
Quote from: MP21WAYS2PAY on March 28, 2017, 06:37:02 AM
CO, somehow I missed your post and Bob's respose and wrote the same thing. We must share the same conspiratorial mindset.
2016
Titans trade up to 8 to take Conklin
Bears trade up to 9 to take Floyd
Giants take Apple at 10
2013
49ers trade up to 18 to take Eric Reid
Giants pick Pugh at 19
2012
Bucs trade up to 31 to take Doug Martin
Giants draft David Wilson at 32
The clearest example here is the Bears, who were at 11, and moved up to 9. The only reason for them to move up was to get in front of the Giants, therefore, they knew the Giants would select Floyd. Did they know that because Jerry Reese was drooling on his shoes at Floyds pro day? I don't know. But the Bears were convinced enough by something to give up their 4th round pick. The case of Doug Martin may have been due to Mike Sullivan joining Tampa before the draft and spilling the beans.
Telegraphing may be as basic as the GM as tracking the GMs visits. It was well documented that Reese only attends a hand full of pro days, and last year that included Floyds, the year before was Flowers. It is not unreasonable to expect the Giants realized that gives other teams a clear indication of who the team is targeting, and this year they decided to throw everyone off the scent by feigning interest in another player.
I'm partially in agreement but feel the higher we pick the harder it is to mask our intentions - after all, picking 10th a good guess as to at least 7-8 off the board could be had and some positions we had no needs at thrown out of the remaining equation leaving 2 + 2 = 4 and a bulls-eye drawn around our top targets at positions of priority need. Everyone knew, not just a few of the NFL teams picking after us! It's once both were taken that most draft prognasticators screwed up. I can't remember which but one of Reese/Ross was at Ohio State but not at Florida. We weren't taking VHIII - too short, bottom end of the minimum speed filter for the position, too polished - but people assumed we were looking at someone other than Apple at Ohio State!
This year picking lower it should be harder to pinpoint our interest, though the fact we have fewer priority needs makes it easier to narrow the field by position. Even then with so many channels (NFL .com, NFL Network, various TV personalities and lots of independent websites/writers doing their own mocks) it is virtually impossible for someone not to have already correctly predicted who we will be selecting in the 1st round. Off-hand over the past two months I can think of 4 different OL's, 2 DE's, 2 TE's, a DT and an RB we've been 'linked to'... and they're all good players (though some don't 'fit' with us)
The presence of Reese travelling around the South at various BBQ stops whilst Ross pops up here there and everywhere is likely to be by design to create subterfuge as to who we are strongly considering for the first pick. I don't think we'd be that obvious again and it may be a case of where they don't go rather than where they do that pinpoints our top 3-4 realistic targets. I guess we'll find out in a few weeks!
What I found interesting is that this year some of the position Coaches have been spotted out there too - Patrick Graham was at Michigan for instance - and there may well have been others in attendance elsewhere, just that people don't necessarily know what they look like so their attendance has gone under the media radar. This time last year they were all hard at work on playbooks and none attended any Pro Days. With a larger number of good players who could realistically end up as our top pick and many Pro Days on the same day we're now getting more 'sighters' in.
NB: I'm not so sure we would have taken Doug Martin. The Giants practically wet themselves in trying to trade up (unsuccessfully) for CJ Spiller the previous year and were infatuated with Wilson for the same reasons. They were clearly wrong on both counts which is why I don't think they will be that interested in taking McCaffrey in the 1st round this year even though I think he's better than either ever looked like they'd be...
Quote from: MP21WAYS2PAY on March 28, 2017, 06:37:02 AM
Telegraphing may be as basic as the GM as tracking the GMs visits. It was well documented that Reese only attends a hand full of pro days, and last year that included Floyds, the year before was Flowers. It is not unreasonable to expect the Giants realized that gives other teams a clear indication of who the team is targeting, and this year they decided to throw everyone off the scent by feigning interest in another player.
Good point. It be interesting to know of the last 10 first round picks how many were players which Reese had visits with.
Quote from: MP21WAYS2PAY on March 28, 2017, 06:37:02 AM
CO, somehow I missed your post and Bob's respose and wrote the same thing. We must share the same conspiratorial mindset.
2016
Titans trade up to 8 to take Conklin
Bears trade up to 9 to take Floyd
Giants take Apple at 10
2013
49ers trade up to 18 to take Eric Reid
Giants pick Pugh at 19
2012
Bucs trade up to 31 to take Doug Martin
Giants draft David Wilson at 32
The clearest example here is the Bears, who were at 11, and moved up to 9. The only reason for them to move up was to get in front of the Giants, therefore, they knew the Giants would select Floyd. Did they know that because Jerry Reese was drooling on his shoes at Floyds pro day? I don't know. But the Bears were convinced enough by something to give up their 4th round pick. The case of Doug Martin may have been due to Mike Sullivan joining Tampa before the draft and spilling the beans.
Telegraphing may be as basic as the GM as tracking the GMs visits. It was well documented that Reese only attends a hand full of pro days, and last year that included Floyds, the year before was Flowers. It is not unreasonable to expect the Giants realized that gives other teams a clear indication of who the team is targeting, and this year they decided to throw everyone off the scent by feigning interest in another player.
What the Giants do is no different than what any other team does. Teams know what players the Giants are interested in as any junior GM can figure that out. There is no mystery to team's weaknesses and players they would be interested in to fill those gaps.
Do you really think that JR flew to Vanderbilt to create a "smokescreen"? Quite the stretch ...
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Quote from: LarryD on March 28, 2017, 07:55:48 AM
Good point. It be interesting to know of the last 10 first round picks how many were players which Reese had visits with.
Amukamara stated that he never heard or met with anyone from the Giants. So in that case, the team didn't bother with extensive due diligence because they thought he would be a Top 10 pick.
In another regime - Phillips also stated he never heard from the Giants either.
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if the Giants really do draft BPA then its impossible to predict anything accurately, sports writers are just doing their jobs by writing things that grab fans interest and accuracy is secondary ...
Gleaning all the clues up until this point my guess at the top 5:
1.Mahomes
2.Cunningham
3.Bolles
4.McCaffery
5.Robinson
Telegraphing?
Didn't we all know the Giants needed tackles last year. If we know it, the other teams know it too.
When the tackles were gone, didn't we know we needed someone to cover the tight end (which had been killing us for years.) The other team know these things - they play us.
Quote from: 4thand17 on March 29, 2017, 03:48:49 PM
Telegraphing?
Didn't we all know the Giants needed tackles last year. If we know it, the other teams know it too.
When the tackles were gone, didn't we know we needed someone to cover the tight end (which had been killing us for years.) The other team know these things - they play us.
so are you saying that other teams would draft just to stop us? just asking...
Mobody knows who the Giants will draft because nobody knows who will be there nor how the Giants board is set up. Pure speculation