Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: MightyGiants on April 17, 2024, 03:07:57 PMI really appreciate the idea and effort, Bob.  You added real value.

One small correction: those rounds are Brugler's player grade, not where he thinks they will be drafted.

Rich: I understand what you mean but I follow him player-by-player, all the way through each round every year and he has an incredible accuracy rate. Absent a crazy "run" on a particular position (which no one can forecast) he is as dead-on as humanly possible, IMO, so I just treat his chart as though he's making predictions, and any pick at a level lower than he has them listed as a steal. Bob

PS. I made a slight adjustment to one of the sentences in my post to make it "lean" in a direction more reflective of what you're talking about.

Quote from: MightyGiants on April 17, 2024, 02:24:25 PMI have heard some things about Nabers from reliable sources.  I can't share what I heard, but knowing what I know, it's hard to say if the issues are enough to pass on a valuable player.  I would need the NFL and Giants background check, and I would need to speak to the man firsthand to really say if the concerns raised are enough to pass on him in the draft.

Rich: If they do draft Nabers, IMO there are no issues that would have deterred one of us from taking him. Bob

Quote from: uconnjack8 on April 17, 2024, 02:17:05 PMAre the personality things mentioned about Nabers real?  If so, I would rather see Odunze.  If those are just BS, then I am fine with either one. 

uconn: I got the same vibe, and the Giants will likely answer the question for us on draft day.

It's almost impossible they won't have a choice of the three WR's minus the one taken by the Cardinals.

If not, then the Giants will have a choice of two highly-rated (not by me) QB's available, which doubles the odds that the QB they're hoping will fall to them (if any) will be there.

Bob

PS. My assumption is that one of the first five picks this year will not be a QB or WR (likely Joe Alt), which as a last resort would mean that Alt will be there (Evan Neal's worst nightmare? lol).

Quote from: MightyGiants on April 17, 2024, 11:41:38 AMNote: To save typing, I labeled hi 1st round players AND mid 1st round players "1st"

1 Drake Maye, QB North Carolina --- 1st
2 J.J. McCarthy, QB Michigan --- lo 1st to hi 2nd
3 Michael Penix, Jr., QB Washington --- lo 2nd to hi 3rd 
4 Jayden Daniels, QB LSU --- 1st   
5 Bo Nix, QB Oregon --- mid 2nd to hi 3rd
6.Spencer Rattler, QB SouthCarolina --- mid 3rd

7 Marvin Harrison Jr., WR Ohio St --- 1st
8 Malik Nabers, WR LSU --- 1st
9 Rome Odunze, WR Washington --- 1st

10 Trey Benson, RB Florida St --- mid 3rd

11 Ben Sinnott, TE Kansas St --- mid 4th
12 Theo Johnson, TE Penn St --- mid 3rd

13 Joe Alt, OT Notre Dame --- 1st
14 Giovanni Manu, OT Univ of British Columbia --- (not on Brugler's big board)
15 Cooper Beebe, OG Kansas St --- mid 2nd
16 Jordan Morgan, OL Arizona --- lo 1st to hi 2nd

17 Adisa Isaac, Edge Penn State --- lo 2nd to hi 3rd
18 Dallas Turner, Edge Alabama --- 1st
19 Chop Robinson, Edge Penn State --- lo 1st to hi 2nd

20 Kristian Boyd, DT Northern Iowa --- mid 6th
21 Maason Smith, DT LSU --- lo 2nd to hi 3rd
22 Jer'Zhan (Johnny) Newton, DT Illinois --- lo 1st to hi 2nd
23 Pheldarius Payne, DT Virginia Tech --- (not on Brugler's big board)

24 Tyrice Knight, LB UTEP --- lo 5th to hi 6th

25 Chau Smith-Wade, CB Washington St --- mid 6th
26 Max Melton, CB Rutgers --- lo 2nd to hi 3rd
27 Andru Phillips, CB Kentucky --- lo 2nd to hi 3rd
28 Evan Williams, DB Oregon --- lo 5th to hi 6th
29 Kool-Aid McKinstry, CB Alabama --- lo 1st to hi 2nd
30 Chigozie Anusiem, CB Colorado St --- mid to lo 7th

Above, I've (hopefully) added value to the list by showing the round in which Brugler wouldn't be surprised to see each guy being selected.

This combo chart is a very good guide to, or indicator of, which positions Giants will look at in various rounds.,

It also (obviously) shows where in the draft they intend to emphasize defense (same for offense).

Bob

Quote from: TONKA56 on April 17, 2024, 12:39:17 PMUgh. 

I'm guessing you wanted to see a QB (probably Maye) to the Giants.  Am I close?  Bob

It could happen that way.  IMO the earliest likely team to bust his mock draft would be the Cardinals.

I think the Patriots will take a QB (don't know who ) and Vikings will trade up (with whom is a burning question... could be any of the Chargers, Patriots and Giants... in that order of likelihood).

I'm surprised to see Odunze ranked below Nabers, but it's actually a good guess that Odunze goes to the Bears.

Bob

Quote from: MightyGiants on April 17, 2024, 11:34:04 AMI've created an integrated listing of the 18 first-round quarterback prospects since 2020, using my own grades and actual draft position.
https://www.the33rdteam.com/2024-nfl-draft-where-would-top-qbs-rank-among-recent-top-prospects/

Rich: Was Joe Burrows ranked higher than Trevor Lawrence? I think not. Lawrence was a consensus top-rated QB in his draft, so I suppose it's fair to compare Lawrence to Williams (this year's consensus top-rated QB), but there is no value in a chart that shows Burrows ranked ahead of Lawrence when talking about the draft. Bob

Rich: To elaborate upon the question posed by @PSUBeirut ...

He seems to be ranking veterans where he believes they fall (best to worst) among themselves, then inserting this year's group in where he believes they will fall in the future.

OK, but IMO the chart is only useful for showing us HIS speculation of how good each rookie will be, compared to HIS view of how good each veteran has been during his career. 

Having two variables like that is unnecessary (and certainly contentious in the case of the veterans, as can be seen by the reactions of some of our members).  The variable ranking how good each vet is relative to the others adds nothing.

It's the same as saying (using his rankings, not mine), "I rank this year's QB's as follows: Williams, Maye, Daniels, McCarthy, Nix and Penix."  He could have then added something like this: "I think my favorite (Williams) will turn out better than Stroud but not as well as Lawrence."

Bob

Nice job, guys. I believe it was vital to emphasize that the Giants have only six picks (as you did).

If AT LEAST two or three under-performing (or unavailable due to injury) players from Schoen's first two drafts don't take a big step up this season, we'll find ourselves right back where we are now.... at this time next year.

The combination of (a) very few draft picks plus (b) under-production from too many of his first two drafts means IMO that Schoen MUST try to hit a home run this year. If he had kept his early 2nd-rounder he'd have had two shots at the target plus the ability to trade up from Pick Six, but IMO that ship has sailed.

The best answer is likley to stay put at Pick Six and plan to trade up from their relatively low 2nd-round position to the bottom of the 1st round or top of the 2nd, depending on which position they fill with Pick Six.  Using this strategy, I think they can come out of the first two rounds with either a top WR and second-tier QB or a top QB and second-tier WR. And if all that sounds a bit dire and desperate... well, sadly, it is.

Staying put in the first round WILL without doubt get them at least the 2nd-best WR, so that's where I think they'll go.  That probably means trading up to the top of round two to take the best-available OL (and looking for a project QB after round 2), unless a tier-two QB falls far enough to justify using (for example) a high 2nd-rounder obtained by trading up.

Bob

Quote from: WheresDayne on April 16, 2024, 04:08:58 PMI've said this since day 1:  Jones has all the tools, Height / Good Arm / Accuracy / Mobility / Smarts / Dedication / Toughness / Etc.  The one tool he is missing is Processing speed and that is one item that can be improved with time but will always be an issue.  This is why just looking at him and seeing his tools can get some people excited about his ceiling only to watch him bump his head pretty quickly   

Where: Good post, and I really like your new "logo" under your name. Bob

Quote from: Ed Vette on April 16, 2024, 11:52:14 AMWhether they draft a QB or not, what will be the Offensive Game Plan this season for Daniel Jones?

Ed: The quick answer is go back to what worked in 2022, but not so fast... the players are different (Saquon gone - for one important difference) and we don't yet know whether they'll go elite X receiver in the draft.

If they go QB with their first pick, then start putting in the offense for the new guy (i.e., next year's starter). Let the team "practice" the new stuff during the first eight games, then put the new starting QB in. 

If they go elite WR or offensive lineman with their first pick, then see paragraph one. If the first pick is at some position other than QB, WR or OL, that man had better start and contribute immediately, or Schoen will have to find a hard hat to wear when attending games (I say that, not so much because I'd personally react that way, but because I know the vast majority of people here have threatened to do so).

Bob

Quote from: bamagiantfan on April 14, 2024, 08:27:25 AMDespite the #6 pick, the Giants are not picking where they can historically get a top QB. They are picking in a spot where you can historically get the Best CB, Best Edge rusher/DE, or Best DT. This year you can add Best OT to that list, which is rare. The best one typically goes with one of the top 5 picks.

bama: This is my mantra every year the Giants pick in the top 10 (sadly, all too often this century lol). Better to get a player (at almost any position) whom the team views as "can't-miss" instead of left-overs at (for example) QB. That, IMO, is the way to truly take advantage of the high 1st-round position. Bob

Quote from: bamagiantfan on April 13, 2024, 09:53:09 PMSince nobody trades for an even swap, the Giants will likely want something extra if there is a QB there they do not want and players they do, that they can get at #11.

bama: Heck, yeah.  The Vikings have TWO first-round picks this year, and the Giants would want both of them.  Bob

Quote from: MightyGiants on April 15, 2024, 09:12:13 AMI have heard the issue with TEs like Bowers is that offensive coordinators need to change their offenses and scheme to include their special TE.   Many offensive coordinators start off scheming to include their special TE, but over time, they tend to drift back to what makes them comfortable.

Rich: Feldman said essentially that he is worth the pick. I agree although I think it should be the last option for the Giants behind WR, QB and OL (in that order).  As for molding an offense around him, IMO that could be an issue. I am not aware of any "special plays" or other offensive adjustments having been inserted into the Giants' playbook to account for acquisition of Waller... and he is a proven commodity. So it's unlikely they would do it for a rookie, or draft a guy that they didn't believe was ready to start now with the offense as it is. Bob

Rich: Of all the guys you "follow" for purposes of creating interesting topics, Feldman is my favorite college expert, though I never pay attention to him until now (shortly before the NFL draft). Why not? Because my view of him is so high that I don't want my analysis to be "tained" by hearing in advance what he believes or concludes. My goal: come to the same conclusions as he does. How did I fare this year? Not bad. After listening intently to him with Sckmelk (who, by the way, asks all the right questions) I'm satisfied to stand pat regarding my views of all of the positions on offense. I split about 60/40 positive vis-a-vis his views on defenders (my knowledge of the various college defense, many of which are little-used in pro ball, is vague and far from comprehensive). Bob