Big Blue Huddle

General Category => Big Blue Huddle => Topic started by: UKGiantsFan on April 18, 2017, 08:03:56 AM

Title: Ten days until the draft. So who is our 1st round pick?
Post by: UKGiantsFan on April 18, 2017, 08:03:56 AM
List in alphabetical order of surname
Title: Re: Ten days until the draft. So who is our 1st round pick?
Post by: MightyGiants on April 18, 2017, 08:05:48 AM
Somehow Dion Dawkins got left off your list   :suspious:

I don't care what the draft community says, I like him and I think he will be a very good offensive lineman for the Giants who has great versitility
Title: Re: Ten days until the draft. So who is our 1st round pick?
Post by: UKGiantsFan on April 18, 2017, 08:23:59 AM
Somehow Dion Dawkins got left off your list   :suspious:

I don't care what the draft community says, I like him and I think he will be a very good offensive lineman for the Giants who has great versitility

:laugh:

I like him too Rich, but he's not on my 1st round wish-list any more than my own OL favourite Taylor Moton is. As soon as the 1st round is over I'll do a similar poll for the second round and provided he's still available you'll see him listed on that!
Title: Re: Ten days until the draft. So who is our 1st round pick?
Post by: MightyGiants on April 18, 2017, 08:30:30 AM
My thoughts on these selections:

T Garrett Bolles

Why we want him-  He has very good foot movement skills and a nasty on-field attitude.    Could be a good backside pass protector manning the LT position. 

Why we don't-  Will be a 24 year old rookie.   Still has major strength issues (he said his pec was strained so he didn't bench) which is a major red flag when you're an older player.   Has issues with players crossing his face and had 17 penalties in his single season of top end college football.

OLB Tyus Bowser-

Why we like him-  He has nice measurables and there is a belief Jerry Reese likes to have a rush LB type even though the team plays a 4-3 defense.   

Why we don't-  Not a particularly effective pass rusher and only a part time off the ball LB


DE Taco Charlton

Why we like him-  He would be a nice addition to Vernon and JPP sharing many of the same traits.  JPP and Vernon were over worked and adding him would make the NASCAR package go

Why we don't-  After locking up JPP and Vernon long term for big money how do you justify a first round pick on another DE?

ILB/OLB Jarrad Davis-

Why we like him-  A really great off the ball LB who could play Will and Mike positions.   Really athletic and great in coverage

Why we don't-  He is an injury waiting to happen.   Has a poor injury history and struggles to stay on field

TE OJ Howard

Why we like him-  All round great TE

Why we don't-  He will be drafted by another team long before the Giants pick


RB Christian McCaffrey

We we like him-  A small versatile playmaker who can run the ball, play slot and be a return guy.  Tiki Barber with more versatility

Why we don't-  With the exception of returner the Giants already have Perkins and Sheppard who can do what Christian can do

TE David Njuko

Why we like him-  He is an athletic freak who would add a real receiving threat from the TE position

Why we don't-  More potential than production and may not develop into the blocker the Giants like to see in their TEs

T Ryan Ramczyk-  

Why we like him-  Solid LT prospect who could be an instant upgrade over Flowers

Why we don't-  One year wonder, real questions about passion for the game and he hurt his hip requiring surgery after only one season at the top college level


ILB/OLB Haason Reddick

Why we like him-  Very athletic and productive undersized DE who is projected to be a 3-4 rush LB

Why we don't-  Best suited to the 3-4 rush LB role and has no pass coverage experience


T Cam Robinson

Why we like him-  He could be what the Giants hoped they were getting when they drafted Flowers

Why we don't-  He could be what the Giants got when they drafted Flowers
Title: Re: Ten days until the draft. So who is our 1st round pick?
Post by: Bob In PA on April 18, 2017, 09:31:52 AM
Rich: I'm with you. 

I have no idea who the Giants will take but would be willing to bet Dawkins will be there. 

In addition, I would welcome the selection if the Giants made it, because it would mean they see what I think I see.

Bob
Title: Re: Ten days until the draft. So who is our 1st round pick?
Post by: Jolly Blue Giant on April 18, 2017, 09:55:00 AM
I think the poll would overwhelming be O.J. Howard, but everyone feels it's unrealistic that he'll be there at 23 - probably the same reason Leonard Fournette isn't on the list.

As for me - it would be a no brainer to grab Howard if he fell all the way into our laps. We'd be fools to pass him up...unless of course, the Giants know something about him that we don't
 
Title: Re: Ten days until the draft. So who is our 1st round pick?
Post by: MightyGiants on April 18, 2017, 09:57:31 AM
I think the poll would overwhelming be O.J. Howard, but everyone feels it's unrealistic that he'll be there at 23 - probably the same reason Leonard Fournette isn't on the list.

As for me - it would be a no brainer to grab Howard if he fell all the way into our laps. We'd be fools to pass him up...unless of course, the Giants know something about him that we don't

Of course, the other question would be-  Why did 20+ other teams pass on him?
Title: Re: Ten days until the draft. So who is our 1st round pick?
Post by: JoeP on April 18, 2017, 10:42:21 AM
Of course, the other question would be-  Why did 20+ other teams pass on him?

News Flash! Whatever player we select at #23 will have had 22 teams pass on him.  >:D
Title: Re: Ten days until the draft. So who is our 1st round pick?
Post by: MightyGiants on April 18, 2017, 10:44:10 AM
News Flash! Whatever player we select at #23 will have had 22 teams pass on him.  >:D

True, and the usual answer is because there were 22 players that were either better or better fits for the teams drafting ahead of the Giants.   With Howard he is such a talented TE and has the versatility to fit in almost any offense that the question takes on a new meaning.
Title: Re: Ten days until the draft. So who is our 1st round pick?
Post by: bamagiantfan on April 18, 2017, 10:50:41 AM
It is too soon.  ;)

Seriously though, if McCaffrey is there I believe he will be the choice.

If not, then one of the three OT or Lamp may fall and the Giants will naturally pass up that opportunity and draft Malik McDowell to leave us all scratching our heads.  :-??

I'm actually not trying to be cute here. I simply have no clue what the Giants plan to do but something in my gut tells me they will not draft an Offensive Tackle under any circumstances.
Title: Re: Ten days until the draft. So who is our 1st round pick?
Post by: AP44 on April 18, 2017, 11:10:02 AM
Picking this late tends for me not to get interested on who will/wont be there. Guys slip and there are always guys with 2nd round grades that go in the first. Plus, there will be a ton of trades as well.

Its better to ask what position do you think the Giants will take - and my guess early is that they will go either CB/DE - whoever is highest rated player of the two.
Title: Re: Ten days until the draft. So who is our 1st round pick?
Post by: President Rick on April 18, 2017, 11:22:13 AM
somehow derek barnett, DE, Tennessee slips to #23 and as the BPA, the Giants take him.
Title: Re: Ten days until the draft. So who is our 1st round pick?
Post by: bamagiantfan on April 18, 2017, 12:18:44 PM
somehow derek barnett, DE, Tennessee slips to #23 and as the BPA, the Giants take him.

In my opinion, there are only two positions where the Giants would be nuts to take a player in Round 1;
CB - where Janoris Jenkins and Eli Apple are signed thru 2021
DE - where Vernon and JPP are signed thru 2021

So if the Giants were to select Barnett, where and when is he going to play?
Title: Re: Ten days until the draft. So who is our 1st round pick?
Post by: MightyGiants on April 18, 2017, 12:19:47 PM
somehow derek barnett, DE, Tennessee slips to #23 and as the BPA, the Giants take him.

Barnett is an interesting prospect.  He tested poorly at the Combine but he was highly productive at the highest level of competition.
Title: Re: Ten days until the draft. So who is our 1st round pick?
Post by: COGiantFan on April 18, 2017, 12:39:57 PM
In my opinion, there are only two positions where the Giants would be nuts to take a player in Round 1;
CB - where Janoris Jenkins and Eli Apple are signed thru 2021
DE - where Vernon and JPP are signed thru 2021

So if the Giants were to select Barnett, where and when is he going to play?

Rotationally so OV&JPP don't have to play 90%+ of the snaps.  A new NASCAR package.  I'm sure they would find places.  Whether that translates to a 1st round pick?  Who knows?
Title: Re: Ten days until the draft. So who is our 1st round pick?
Post by: Cid in Dupont on April 18, 2017, 01:09:31 PM
I selected "Someone else".  I know I'm in the minority here, but I'm really hoping that Malik McDowell falls to us @ 23.  He'd be almost perfect as our 3 Tech, and with Snacks, JPP, Vernon "inspiring" him I wouldn't be surprised to see him play at an almost "Aaron Donald" level.  He can be that good.

O.K. go ahead and throw the remotes now.  ;)

Cid
Title: Re: Ten days until the draft. So who is our 1st round pick?
Post by: bamagiantfan on April 18, 2017, 01:25:13 PM
I selected "Someone else".  I know I'm in the minority here, but I'm really hoping that Malik McDowell falls to us @ 23.  He'd be almost perfect as our 3 Tech, and with Snacks, JPP, Vernon "inspiring" him I wouldn't be surprised to see him play at an almost "Aaron Donald" level.  He can be that good.

O.K. go ahead and throw the remotes now.  ;)

Cid

I won't throw the remote. DT is one of our top needs and McDowell is one of the top options.
Title: Re: Ten days until the draft. So who is our 1st round pick?
Post by: MightyGiants on April 18, 2017, 01:33:45 PM
I selected "Someone else".  I know I'm in the minority here, but I'm really hoping that Malik McDowell falls to us @ 23.  He'd be almost perfect as our 3 Tech, and with Snacks, JPP, Vernon "inspiring" him I wouldn't be surprised to see him play at an almost "Aaron Donald" level.  He can be that good.

O.K. go ahead and throw the remotes now.  ;)

Cid

Cid,

While nothing is certain in the NFL draft, I think McDowell being there for the Giants at 23 could be as close as one comes to it.   From what I have been hearing it wouldn't be surprising if he drops to the second round.
Title: Re: Ten days until the draft. So who is our 1st round pick?
Post by: AP44 on April 18, 2017, 01:38:52 PM
In my opinion, there are only two positions where the Giants would be nuts to take a player in Round 1;
CB - where Janoris Jenkins and Eli Apple are signed thru 2021
DE - where Vernon and JPP are signed thru 2021

So if the Giants were to select Barnett, where and when is he going to play?

I disagree with this 100x over.

First, corners and DEs you use the saying - you can never have enough. Yes, they have OV and JPP - however I think in 2007 and 2011 we had THREE awesome DEs to make the other offenses cringe. JPP and OV played over 90% of the snaps last year. That is something you need to consider as well. Plus, JPP is always hurt. OV played hurt last year. You need 3 DEs in todays game.

Corners are even more important. Remember when DRC got hurt and we stumbled Wade out there against GB in the playoffs.... so does Aaron Rodgers and he abused him. DC most likely will be a cap cut after this year a well. So you will need a corner anyways. This draft if LOADED with CBs and DEs.

You dont pass on a better player for a lesser player because you need it. You take the best player (unless you are set at RB and QB) and find a role for them. Our defense is predicated on getting to the QB and shutting down WRs. You cant have too many DEs and CBs. 
Title: Re: Ten days until the draft. So who is our 1st round pick?
Post by: MightyGiants on April 18, 2017, 01:53:45 PM
Just my opinion, but the only way I see the Giants drafting a DE or CB is if they are clearly a tier above all the other players left on their draft board.   This draft is deep, really deep, in CBs and so they can get another potential starter in later rounds.   The same with DEs there will be some more available day 2 and early day 3 that can provide more pass rush as well.   
Title: Re: Ten days until the draft. So who is our 1st round pick?
Post by: AP44 on April 18, 2017, 02:07:57 PM
Just my opinion, but the only way I see the Giants drafting a DE or CB is if they are clearly a tier above all the other players left on their draft board.   This draft is deep, really deep, in CBs and so they can get another potential starter in later rounds.   The same with DEs there will be some more available day 2 and early day 3 that can provide more pass rush as well.   

Lets assume the Giants do a 1-100 scale for players.

You have the 23rd pick, would you take the 5th best corner with an 85 rating or lets say the 2nd best RB with a 79 rating or an OL with a 75-76 rating? I dont know about any of you, but give me the better player every time. Now, if at 23 we have two players with basically the same value, you choose need.

The Giants lack depth EVERYWHERE. And remember we were basically healthy last year.
Title: Re: Ten days until the draft. So who is our 1st round pick?
Post by: Jolly Blue Giant on April 18, 2017, 02:13:52 PM
Since we are picking at the back end of the first round at 23, I have to think that a lot of guys listed by various sources as "second round material" will be in discussions and consideration since the Giants will not get a shot at some of those players when they are finally back on the clock at 53. If there is a player rated in the 32 - 50 range that they really, really like - I could see them surprising everyone by grabbing that player they believe fits what they want in a player. Who knows? I guess we'll know next week and then we get to listen to blowhard talking heads spouting off that we took that player "way too early" and "could've had him later" (Osi jumps to mind when the announcers went nuts and called the Giants stupid)
Title: Re: Ten days until the draft. So who is our 1st round pick?
Post by: Philosophers on April 18, 2017, 02:25:04 PM
AP44 - There's a serious flaw in your reasoning in that while you put on a scale (0-100) the prospects you need also to put on a scale the Giants player at the position in which he would be replacing.  For example, if an OLT draft prospect is lowest at a ranking of 75 however, Ereck Flowers' ranking is 40 whereas the other Giants players at other positions are ranked higher (say 70 or more) and their draft position prospects are ranked at 80, then drafting the lower ranked draft prospect might yield the greatest bang as it would be replacing a player on the roster with the lowest ranking thereby making up the greatest gap (75-40) instead of (80-70).
Title: Re: Ten days until the draft. So who is our 1st round pick?
Post by: AP44 on April 18, 2017, 02:31:33 PM
AP44 - There's a serious flaw in your reasoning in that while you put on a scale (0-100) the prospects you need also to put on a scale the Giants player at the position in which he would be replacing.  For example, if an OLT draft prospect is lowest at a ranking of 75 however, Ereck Flowers' ranking is 40 whereas the other Giants players at other positions are ranked higher (say 70 or more) and their draft position prospects are ranked at 80, then drafting the lower ranked draft prospect might yield the greatest bang as it would be replacing a player on the roster with the lowest ranking thereby making up the greatest gap (75-40) instead of (80-70).

You're not looking to replace, you are looking to add. The Giants prioritize certain positions. They are WR, DE, and CB. We have depth at WR and zero at the other 2. We need a 3rd DE and and a 4th CB.
Title: Re: Ten days until the draft. So who is our 1st round pick?
Post by: RoadtoGlory on April 18, 2017, 03:44:29 PM
My thoughts on these selections:


T Cam Robinson

Why we like him-  He could be what the Giants hoped they were getting when they drafted Flowers

Why we don't-  He could be what the Giants got when they drafted Flowers

 =))
Title: Re: Ten days until the draft. So who is our 1st round pick?
Post by: RoadtoGlory on April 18, 2017, 03:54:49 PM
My thoughts on these selections:

T Garrett Bolles

Why we want him-  He has very good foot movement skills and a nasty on-field attitude.    Could be a good backside pass protector manning the LT position. 

Why we don't-  Will be a 24 year old rookie.   Still has major strength issues (he said his pec was strained so he didn't bench) which is a major red flag when you're an older player.   Has issues with players crossing his face and had 17 penalties in his single season of top end college football.

OLB Tyus Bowser-

Why we like him-  He has nice measurables and there is a belief Jerry Reese likes to have a rush LB type even though the team plays a 4-3 defense.   

Why we don't-  Not a particularly effective pass rusher and only a part time off the ball LB


DE Taco Charlton

Why we like him-  He would be a nice addition to Vernon and JPP sharing many of the same traits.  JPP and Vernon were over worked and adding him would make the NASCAR package go

Why we don't-  After locking up JPP and Vernon long term for big money how do you justify a first round pick on another DE?

ILB/OLB Jarrad Davis-

Why we like him-  A really great off the ball LB who could play Will and Mike positions.   Really athletic and great in coverage

Why we don't-  He is an injury waiting to happen.   Has a poor injury history and struggles to stay on field

TE OJ Howard

Why we like him-  All round great TE

Why we don't-  He will be drafted by another team long before the Giants pick


RB Christian McCaffrey

We we like him-  A small versatile playmaker who can run the ball, play slot and be a return guy.  Tiki Barber with more versatility

Why we don't-  With the exception of returner the Giants already have Perkins and Sheppard who can do what Christian can do

TE David Njuko

Why we like him-  He is an athletic freak who would add a real receiving threat from the TE position

Why we don't-  More potential than production and may not develop into the blocker the Giants like to see in their TEs

T Ryan Ramczyk-  

Why we like him-  Solid LT prospect who could be an instant upgrade over Flowers

Why we don't-  One year wonder, real questions about passion for the game and he hurt his hip requiring surgery after only one season at the top college level


ILB/OLB Haason Reddick

Why we like him-  Very athletic and productive undersized DE who is projected to be a 3-4 rush LB

Why we don't-  Best suited to the 3-4 rush LB role and has no pass coverage experience


T Cam Robinson

Why we like him-  He could be what the Giants hoped they were getting when they drafted Flowers

Why we don't-  He could be what the Giants got when they drafted Flowers

My guess on their short list with some comments:

Pat Mahomes- the Qb is the trump card. Oodles of talent and seems to have the 'it' factor.
Cam Robinson- has the size/Arm length Giants love. However his feet don't look good and I don't know if his technique will clean up enough to be an above average LT.
Lamp-Hoping for him as he is a near slam dunk to play as a pro bowl caliber OG and RT. But only want him if they also believe he can play above average LT.
Dawkins- Long Arms and 7.3 3-cone. Sick athlete. If he can play LT he needs to be in play at 23.
Jordan Willis- top freak DE of the draft under Garrett. Slightly lighter than what Giants look for but he will be a rotational guy for passing downs.
TJ Watt- Could be closest 'Floyd clone' this draft with maybe even better pass rush ability.
Tyus Bowser- Another guy for that hybrid LB/DE role. With top notch sack to play ratio\
Cunningham-Reese went to see him. just dont know if he offers pass rush upside which is what type of impact Giants usually want from an LB in round 1.
Cory Davis- too much value if he slips.
OJ Howard- stud two way TE from day 1 without the growing pains of the other guys (NJoku,Sheehan etc.)
McAffery- all purpose Tiki Barber like back. Vision, cutting ability,pass catching like a WR. Hes got it all except superior size.
Title: Re: Ten days until the draft. So who is our 1st round pick?
Post by: Philosophers on April 18, 2017, 03:54:58 PM
What is more important, a #4 CB who plays less than 100% of the time a defense is out on the field (and replaces a starting CB when injured) or a starting OLT who plays 100% of the time the offense is on the field?  We need starters first and depth second.
Title: Re: Ten days until the draft. So who is our 1st round pick?
Post by: MightyGiants on April 18, 2017, 04:13:23 PM
My guess on their short list with some comments:

Pat Mahomes- the Qb is the trump card. Oodles of talent and seems to have the 'it' factor.
Cam Robinson- has the size/Arm length Giants love. However his feet don't look good and I don't know if his technique will clean up enough to be an above average LT.
Lamp-Hoping for him as he is a near slam dunk to play as a pro bowl caliber OG and RT. But only want him if they also believe he can play above average LT.
Jordan Willis- top freak DE of the draft under Garrett. Slightly lighter than what Giants look for but he will be a rotational guy for passing downs.
TJ Watt- Could be closest 'Floyd clone' this draft with maybe even better pass rush ability.
Tyus Bowser- Another guy for that hybrid LB/DE role. With top notch sack to play ratio
Cory Jones- too much value if he slips.
OJ Howard- stud two way TE from day 1 without the growing pains of the other guys (NJoku,Sheehan etc.)
McAffery- all purpose Tiki Barber like back. Vision, cutting ability,pass catching like a WR. Hes got it all except superior size.

Pat Mahomes-  I seriously doubt he will make it to 23
Lamp-  I think his best positions are C and LG and could play LT in a pinch.  I don't think he is big/strong enough to play the right side
Jordan Willis- 23 may be a bit high for him, but you're right he is a special rusher and in the Giants mold
TJ Watt- got to love the blood lines, the question is can he get big enough to play DE
Cory Jones- ???
Title: Re: Ten days until the draft. So who is our 1st round pick?
Post by: AP44 on April 18, 2017, 04:20:49 PM
What is more important, a #4 CB who plays less than 100% of the time a defense is out on the field (and replaces a starting CB when injured) or a starting OLT who plays 100% of the time the offense is on the field?  We need starters first and depth second.

So reach for another ereck flowers? Sorry, I'll pass...
Title: Re: Ten days until the draft. So who is our 1st round pick?
Post by: Jaime on April 18, 2017, 04:38:53 PM
Patrick Mahommes all dah way baby!!!  :Chestram: :nanner: :goteam: :dance:
Title: Re: Ten days until the draft. So who is our 1st round pick?
Post by: Philosophers on April 18, 2017, 04:45:33 PM
Not Flowers as he'd be a 40.  It would be someone rated 70 so presumably better.
Title: Re: Ten days until the draft. So who is our 1st round pick?
Post by: RoadtoGlory on April 18, 2017, 04:49:25 PM
Pat Mahomes-  I seriously doubt he will make it to 23. You may be right but this is a crazy draft and depends on how developmental other teams think he is. Giants are in the unique situation of don't need a guy next year but can afford to groom for a couple years.
Lamp-  I think his best positions are C and LG and could play LT in a pinch.  I don't think he is big/strong enough to play the right side . Yes this is the question. i want a guy with at least average LT projectibility in case Flowers fails. Lamp may be good enough to play avg LT in case Flowers flops. If he doesnt flop then you have a potential probowl OG.
Jordan Willis- 23 may be a bit high for him, but you're right he is a special rusher and in the Giants mold Lot of pub lately saying he is one of those late risers.
TJ Watt- got to love the blood lines, the question is can he get big enough to play DE- part time on rush downs only with some blitzing from the second level on other downs-Spags is ultra creative . Same deal with Bowser
Cory Jones- ??? Senior moment- Corey Davis!


 
Title: Re: Ten days until the draft. So who is our 1st round pick?
Post by: todge on April 18, 2017, 05:56:03 PM
You're not looking to replace, you are looking to add. The Giants prioritize certain positions. They are WR, DE, and CB. We have depth at WR and zero at the other 2. We need a 3rd DE and and a 4th CB.

I understand your rationale.  However, the Post says "1st Round" pick.  The Giants just finished dumping $200 million into the defense with good results. They are not going to spend a 1st Round pick on:  another CB who will be a nickel/dime at best; and, another DE who will be a rotational player along with Okwara and Odiggy.  In a hard salary cap league, the Giants are not going to sink 1st Round money into either of those positions thus leaving them with a disproportionate amount of money allotted to the defense.

It is conceivable the Giants could spend a mid and late Round pick on either of those positions, but I would put the odds of a 1st Rounder slim and next to none.  Especially considering that the offense stunk up the field last year, not the defense.
Title: Re: Ten days until the draft. So who is our 1st round pick?
Post by: Jolly Blue Giant on April 18, 2017, 06:00:06 PM
Most interesting poll results: Nary a single vote for super-TE OJ Howard or LB Haason Reddick
Title: Re: Ten days until the draft. So who is our 1st round pick?
Post by: sooners56 on April 18, 2017, 06:01:38 PM
In my opinion, there are only two positions where the Giants would be nuts to take a player in Round 1;
CB - where Janoris Jenkins and Eli Apple are signed thru 2021
DE - where Vernon and JPP are signed thru 2021

So if the Giants were to select Barnett, where and when is he going to play?
With how the game is now and with DRC possibly leaving next year along with the injury history, the Giants could do a lot worse than adding another talented CB in the draft. If you remember how good the Seahawks d was when they were known as the legion of boom, it wasn't their pass rush that was dominating it was their secondary that was. As we seen last year with the Giants D, an elite secondary can transform a defense to elite status even with a lackluster pass rush. So imo if a stud CB or a stud FS was available in Rd 1 I wouldn't be upset if the Giants selected them. Honestly unless Howard, Allen or Fournette are available at pick 23, the bpa may be a secondary player.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Ten days until the draft. So who is our 1st round pick?
Post by: todge on April 18, 2017, 06:04:32 PM
Most interesting poll results: Nary a single vote for super-TE OJ Howard or LB Haason Reddick

That is probably because no one expects Howard to fall to #23.  Reddick is a fine prospect, but he does not fit the profile of what the Giants want in their LBs as he is "undersized".
Title: Re: Ten days until the draft. So who is our 1st round pick?
Post by: bamagiantfan on April 18, 2017, 06:06:19 PM
With how the game is now and with DRC possibly leaving next year along with the injury history, the Giants could do a lot worse than adding another talented CB in the draft. If you remember how good the Seahawks d was when they were known as the legion of boom, it wasn't their pass rush that was dominating it was their secondary that was. As we seen last year with the Giants D, an elite secondary can transform a defense to elite status even with a lackluster pass rush. So imo if a stud CB or a stud FS was available in Rd 1 I wouldn't be upset if the Giants selected them. Honestly unless Howard, Allen or Fournette are available at pick 23, the bpa may be a secondary player.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I see some of you want another Kiwanuka, where we spent 3 seasons trying to figure out how to get him on the field. Not me.
Title: Re: Ten days until the draft. So who is our 1st round pick?
Post by: sooners56 on April 18, 2017, 07:33:16 PM
I see some of you want another Kiwanuka, where we spent 3 seasons trying to figure out how to get him on the field. Not me.
I don't see how adding a top notch CB or FS has any correlation with Kiwi and his situation. Kiwi just wasn't very good which is why the Giants had trouble with him. A top notch CB or FS would be better than a subpar Olineman. Now it is doubtful the top notch CB or FS I speak of will be around at 23 but if they are and the Giants draft one it would be better than drafting an olineman from this draft class.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Ten days until the draft. So who is our 1st round pick?
Post by: UncannyGfan on April 18, 2017, 09:40:22 PM
Kiwi was drafted while they had Strahan, Osi, and Tuck which was isn't really comparable to the present situation unless you think Okwara or Odighizuwa can play at a similar or good enough level. 

I think if the Giants do go DE we'd hope for a solid three DE again like both recent superbowl wins.

I'd be equally happy with a starting caliber OL, a top notch pass rusher, or a TE that forces Defenses to change their formations. 
Title: Re: Ten days until the draft. So who is our 1st round pick?
Post by: Philosophers on April 18, 2017, 09:43:10 PM
Everyone not advocating an OL need to remember this post when in October Eli is running forbhis life and we are scoring 10 points a game
Title: Ten days until the draft. So who is our 1st round pick?
Post by: todge on April 18, 2017, 10:10:20 PM
I cannot believe all the Kiwi bashing going on. "Not very good"?! For a stretch of time, he was the Giants' best overall defender and spent his career here as primarily a starter. Good run stopper, decent pass rusher and was moved to the "joker" role to find a way to keep him on the field. You guys either have bad memories or weren't even around during Kiwi's career here. If he wasn't any good as some of you claim, then why did the Giants continuously resign him? Players who aren't very good, get cut very quickly into their careers.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Ten days until the draft. So who is our 1st round pick?
Post by: Painter on April 18, 2017, 10:26:27 PM
So who is our 1st Round pick? Are we answering the question as a prediction or as a preference?  As it would be hard to find any other enterprise of such interest and effort where the prediction of outcomes is so dismally inaccurate, it might be best to avoid the former. In any case, it no doubt would be hedged with an array of ifs, ands, and buts.

On the other hand, preference is a choice, our choice not a guess at someone else's. And it can be reasonable without having to be rational as long as it can be accommodated, and can find its happiness in confirmation bias.

My preferences always arise from need, my perception of it in any case. And in most cases, it involves more than one area of need; two, maybe three which can make the team better where it might otherwise become worse. As long as there are players in those areas of need who I think will meet or exceed value at the Giants slot, I'm comfortable 

I like the list in the poll. Good for need; good for value although LBs and DB are not on my top needs list. And neither would  anyone described as being needed for depth or as rotation. As for picking for the future, I will let the future take care of it self. We can't predict next week much less next year. For me, the future is now.

I have no idea who the Giants will take at 23 but I hope it will be an OLT; Ramczyk if he's there. I really believe that Edge Rushers today are so much quicker and more athletic with more stemming and stunting than in the past that you must have a really quick, very athletic, and very smart player at OLT. I see that in Ramczyk; I don't see it in anyone currently among the Giants Oline.

What troubles me some is the thought that JR is not ready to accept that they need better than Flowers at OLT, and instead focus on replacing Hankins at the 3-TechDT. Still, the more I think of that, the more I imagine Malik McDowell terrorizing opposing QBs to the great benefit of J P-P and OV and all who play behind them. Snuck that one in, huh?  Redfaced

Cheers!

 



 

.
Title: Re: Ten days until the draft. So who is our 1st round pick?
Post by: AP44 on April 18, 2017, 10:32:11 PM
Everyone not advocating an OL need to remember this post when in October Eli is running forbhis life and we are scoring 10 points a game

Much like the QBs in this draft.... these OL are not 1st round worthy. If Robinson, Ramcyzk, or Bolles were a future OLT..... then they would be talked about in the top 10. Robinson is already seen as a guard. Bolles stock is falling and he is older. Ramcyzk is dealing with a major injury and pkayed just 1 year of high level competition.

You are absolutely correct saying we need OL. However, these guys arent the answer. Believe it or not, Lamp maybe the only one I consider in the first, and that is a huge stretch too. Give me as many of the best players as possible and then figure out what to do with them later.
Title: Re: Ten days until the draft. So who is our 1st round pick?
Post by: COGiantFan on April 19, 2017, 12:47:49 AM
Most interesting poll results: Nary a single vote for super-TE OJ Howard or LB Haason Reddick

I think a big part of that is the general expectation that neither will still be there at 23.  The question was framed that way.
Title: Re: Ten days until the draft. So who is our 1st round pick?
Post by: MP21WAYS2PAY on April 19, 2017, 04:39:38 AM
If OJ Howard can be got for a 1&3rd, I support trading up.  If not Im on board with Lamp, Jordan Willis or Taylor Moton, in order of preference.
Title: Re: Ten days until the draft. So who is our 1st round pick?
Post by: Painter on April 19, 2017, 06:57:47 AM
You may be right, AP44. Ramczyk's injury is a concern. But as long as he still is in the conversation, I am not going disqualify him.  As I made clear, mine is a preference not a prediction. Frankly in regard to the latter, whatever sources the sources have don't seem all that reliable. Even Melvin Jr. admits that half their 1st Round guesses prove to be wrong, either better or worse. At least for OTs, it does seem to work both ways.

Remember Fisher and Joeckel, the second coming of Ogden and Pace, who went 1 and 2 in 2013? It didn't take long for the same experts to declare 2013 to have been the worst draft in recent memory or to predict at the time that 2014 could prove to be the best ever. Charlie Casserly was on record as touting Taylor Lewan as better than Fisher and Joeckel and Mayock's favorite Greg Robinson. Whatever happened to David Bakhtiari in all of that?  Still the Packers starting OLT is he? See what I mean?

And speaking of 2014 and TEs. There sure were a lot of folks here who were dismayed when the Lions grabbed Eric Ebron from Giants clutches and left them to settle for Odell Beckham who had been guessed to be the Giants pick by just one among 29 in a late Mock Muncher.

For me, a discussion of this sort is the most interesting and the most fun.

Cheers!


Title: Re: Ten days until the draft. So who is our 1st round pick?
Post by: bamagiantfan on April 19, 2017, 08:08:26 AM
Interesting Poll results so far;
1st Place - Tackle, Ramczyn
2nd Place - Tackle, Robinson
3rd Place - TE, Njoku
4th Place - Tackle, Bolles

And to think that my opinion is that there is no way in hell they will take a Tackle in Round 1.

It is going to be interesting.  :yes:
Title: Re: Ten days until the draft. So who is our 1st round pick?
Post by: Philosophers on April 19, 2017, 08:20:31 AM
My gut tells me that Giants ownership sees the flaws in our OL and is quietly letting management know this needs to be addressed.  I also believe the three so-called weak 1st round OLTs may not be viewed as weakly as mocksters think.  We'll know in a week.  My gut tells me that one of them will be a Giant at 23.  If all are available, I think Robinson will get the nod by the Giants.
Title: Re: Ten days until the draft. So who is our 1st round pick?
Post by: AP44 on April 19, 2017, 08:33:08 AM
You may be right, AP44. Ramczyk's injury is a concern. But as long as he still is in the conversation, I am not going disqualify him.  As I made clear, mine is a preference not a prediction. Frankly in regard to the latter, whatever sources the sources have don't seem all that reliable. Even Melvin Jr. admits that half their 1st Round guesses prove to be wrong, either better or worse. At least for OTs, it does seem to work both ways.

Remember Fisher and Joeckel, the second coming of Ogden and Pace, who went 1 and 2 in 2013? It didn't take long for the same experts to declare 2013 to have been the worst draft in recent memory or to predict at the time that 2014 could prove to be the best ever. Charlie Casserly was on record as touting Taylor Lewan as better than Fisher and Joeckel and Mayock's favorite Greg Robinson. Whatever happened to David Bakhtiari in all of that?  Still the Packers starting OLT is he? See what I mean?

And speaking of 2014 and TEs. There sure were a lot of folks here who were dismayed when the Lions grabbed Eric Ebron from Giants clutches and left them to settle for Odell Beckham who had been guessed to be the Giants pick by just one among 29 in a late Mock Muncher.

For me, a discussion of this sort is the most interesting and the most fun.

Cheers!

The problem I have with OL is that every team needs them for the most part and will reach for them (great examples by the way). So yes, we need OL as do many other teams in front of us. If no OL goes within the first 20 picks thats a big warning sign. I cant even imagine the last time that happened. If no team within the top 20 sees any of these guys worthy of the pick, should we expect to draft one and expect them to contribute? I dont see it as likely.

Now can Ramcyzk turn into a lesser version of Joe Thomas? Can Cam Robinson be an all-pro guard for years? No doubt. These are risks that a team is going to take. But as I see it, if no teams wants them in the top 20 - then I dont think we should be quick to jump on them either.

Lets look at it another way. Lets just say Ramcyzk is the only one that goes (lets say to Denver) that means you will have a handful of OG/OT that will be available not only in round 1, but round 2 as well. Would you take an OL when say someone like Dalvin Cook slips? If Cook slips, it maybe all but impossible to pass up on him.

The point is I hate drafting for need when better players are available. If the Giants are high on Lamp, Bolles, Ramcyzk, Robinson... and take him - thats fine. I trust their process. But I am still a big believer in getting the best player available and worry about it later.
Title: Re: Ten days until the draft. So who is our 1st round pick?
Post by: UKGiantsFan on April 19, 2017, 09:10:46 AM
Interesting Poll results so far;
1st Place - Tackle, Ramczyn
2nd Place - Tackle, Robinson
3rd Place - TE, Njoku
4th Place - Tackle, Bolles

And to think that my opinion is that there is no way in hell they will take a Tackle in Round 1.

It is going to be interesting.  :yes:

Even more interesting is that 'someone else' leads the poll yet only Dawkins (Rich) & McDowell (Larry) have obvious individual support.
Title: Re: Ten days until the draft. So who is our 1st round pick?
Post by: MP21WAYS2PAY on April 19, 2017, 09:14:17 AM
My gut tells me that Giants ownership sees the flaws in our OL and is quietly letting management know this needs to be addressed.  I also believe the three so-called weak 1st round OLTs may not be viewed as weakly as mocksters think.  We'll know in a week.  My gut tells me that one of them will be a Giant at 23.  If all are available, I think Robinson will get the nod by the Giants.

The other issue is if you look at our roster 1 year from now, Pugh and Richberg are free agents, John Jerry is 32 years old.  The only starter we have on our line is Flowers.  I do not expect we will pay 8-12M to resign Pugh, Richberg will probably be resigned, but if we don't start to address the OL this year, we will be in bad shape.  Quality guards are getting 8-12M per year, so we had better find at least 1 in the draft this year.  Someone like Lamp or Moton will give us great flexibility to deal with this issue.
Title: Re: Ten days until the draft. So who is our 1st round pick?
Post by: bamagiantfan on April 19, 2017, 10:53:46 AM
The other issue is if you look at our roster 1 year from now, Pugh and Richberg are free agents, John Jerry is 32 years old.  The only starter we have on our line is Flowers.  I do not expect we will pay 8-12M to resign Pugh, Richberg will probably be resigned, but if we don't start to address the OL this year, we will be in bad shape.  Quality guards are getting 8-12M per year, so we had better find at least 1 in the draft this year.  Someone like Lamp or Moton will give us great flexibility to deal with this issue.

Gettis and Fluker will also be Free Agents, which fuels your argument further.
Title: Re: Ten days until the draft. So who is our 1st round pick?
Post by: todge on April 19, 2017, 01:50:33 PM
Gettis and Fluker will also be Free Agents, which fuels your argument further.

No question this is going to be an "offensive" Draft.  No depth or quality on the OL, especially at both tackle spots.  Sean O'Hara said it best "the biggest problem with the OL is that there is no competition at most of the spots". No north/south RB and no pass catching TE.  I think we could see at least five Draft picks on the offensive side of the ball early and often. 
Title: Re: Ten days until the draft. So who is our 1st round pick?
Post by: Bob In PA on April 19, 2017, 02:17:18 PM
The other issue is if you look at our roster 1 year from now, Pugh and Richberg are free agents, John Jerry is 32 years old.  The only starter we have on our line is Flowers.  I do not expect we will pay 8-12M to resign Pugh, Richberg will probably be resigned, but if we don't start to address the OL this year, we will be in bad shape.  Quality guards are getting 8-12M per year, so we had better find at least 1 in the draft this year.  Someone like Lamp or Moton will give us great flexibility to deal with this issue.

MP: Good point, and I'll try to add another level to it.... I think you'll agree that a sure way to start solving the problem is to open negotiations with Pugh a.s.a.p. 

IMO, this is important for the Giants not only for obvious reasons, but also because the worse Flowers plays throughout the upcoming season, the higher Pugh's value to the team will be.

Bob
Title: Re: Ten days until the draft. So who is our 1st round pick?
Post by: MightyGiants on April 19, 2017, 02:22:54 PM
MP: Good point, and I'll try to add another level to it.... I think you'll agree that a sure way to start solving the problem is to open negotiations with Pugh a.s.a.p. 

IMO, this is important for the Giants not only for obvious reasons, but also because the worse Flowers plays throughout the upcoming season, the higher Pugh's value to the team will be.

Bob

Bob,

There has been concussion and other injury issues with Pugh.  I think the team is taking the 5th year option to see how healthy he stays.   With the money they saved on Hankins, I am now thinking the team has a reasonable chance of keeping both Pugh and Richburg next season (unless Pugh has a monster season).
Title: Re: Ten days until the draft. So who is our 1st round pick?
Post by: Bob In PA on April 19, 2017, 02:41:39 PM
Bob,

There has been concussion and other injury issues with Pugh.  I think the team is taking the 5th year option to see how healthy he stays.   With the money they saved on Hankins, I am now thinking the team has a reasonable chance of keeping both Pugh and Richburg next season (unless Pugh has a monster season).

Rich: So you wouldn't start "poking around" now just in case Pugh is amenable to something beneficial to both sides?  Bob
Title: Re: Ten days until the draft. So who is our 1st round pick?
Post by: MightyGiants on April 19, 2017, 03:34:43 PM
Rich: So you wouldn't start "poking around" now just in case Pugh is amenable to something beneficial to both sides?  Bob

Bob,

As a rule, players love long term deals and teams love to rent not own.   Generally speaking, teams only sign a long-term deal with a guy in the 5th year of his contract if they are trying to lower his cap him (at $8 this season he is right around what he is worth) or they believe he is on the cusp of a breakout season.    I think we have seen what we have seen with Pugh.   He is LG without a whole lot of power but pretty good mobility.  I think he is going to sign a contract next year in for around what he is making this year.   I also think there is a chance his injury issues (the concussions worry me) could make him less of an attractive signing.   

That said, I am curious as to why you would want to sign him this year rather than wait.
Title: Re: Ten days until the draft. So who is our 1st round pick?
Post by: Bob In PA on April 19, 2017, 04:01:21 PM
Bob,  I am curious as to why you would want to sign him this year rather than wait.

Rich: I would not necessarily want to sign him a.s.a.p. unless he was willing to make some concessions that would make it worth my while. 

Each side has a bargaining chip that could help the other... and that is the recipe for a good deal that helps both sides.

Clearly, if he's looking for the same contract now that he would want after the upcoming season (assuming he continued at the same level of play), then there's no reason for the team to do anything yet.

Bob
Title: Re: Ten days until the draft. So who is our 1st round pick?
Post by: UKGiantsFan on April 20, 2017, 05:56:08 PM
Damn, think the sh*t Reuben Foster just got pulled on WILL effect the draft in front of us.

Prepare to be Bowser-ed if Davis gets elevated and Bolles is gone (I take it for granted that Howard will be)
Title: Re: Ten days until the draft. So who is our 1st round pick?
Post by: Jolly Blue Giant on April 20, 2017, 06:16:39 PM
Damn, think the sh*t Reuben Foster just got pulled on WILL effect the draft in front of us.

Prepare to be Bowser-ed if Davis gets elevated and Bolles is gone (I take it for granted that Howard will be)

He'll fall - hopefully not too far. Once considered top 10 pick, now could fall to 2nd round or further. I just hope he doesn't drop too far, maybe in the 15-20 range so that it won't totally screw up our spot at 23.

I actually find it pretty weird that his urine sample was "diluted" because he drank a lot of water before the test. I would think if they are spinning the centrifuges, they could still discover if he had any drugs in his system. When I go to the doctor, I drink a bottle of water so I can deliver a sample of urine when I get there. Surprising.
Title: Re: Ten days until the draft. So who is our 1st round pick?
Post by: bamagiantfan on April 21, 2017, 09:23:51 AM
Maybe I missed it, but was there any issues with the sample other than the dilution? Are they saying they couldn't tell because it was so diluted?

This may not be much of an issue at all and could explain his upset with a medical technician at the combine. If I knew I was clean and somebody tried to tell me I failed a test because I drank too much water and it could affect the career I've spent years preparing for, I would be upset. I don't think I would go as far as he did but I would be absolutely livid!
Title: Re: Ten days until the draft. So who is our 1st round pick?
Post by: UKGiantsFan on April 21, 2017, 10:16:06 AM
Maybe I missed it, but was there any issues with the sample other than the dilution? Are they saying they couldn't tell because it was so diluted?

This may not be much of an issue at all and could explain his upset with a medical technician at the combine. If I knew I was clean and somebody tried to tell me I failed a test because I drank too much water and it could affect the career I've spent years preparing for, I would be upset. I don't think I would go as far as he did but I would be absolutely livid!

'Bama, I get that you're a Crimson Tide homer but puh-lease!

Foster getting 'out in front' of the failed test when it wasn't even known about by the media smacks of Randy Gregory's attempt to paint his failed test three years ago with an entirely different narrative. You'll recall that Gregory claimed his failed test was from such heavy smoking a few months prior to the Combine that it remained in his system  :jawdrop: And he'd given up and wouldn't ever be smoking weed again =))

Foster doesn't really hit out at all, raging against the machine that will cost him millions and threatening all and sundry with law suits... Rueful indignation that he got caught and his story having more holes than Edam is about as strong as I'd classify his defence.

The medical technician incident happened whilst he waited for X-rays. And he wasn't notified of the failed test until long after he'd been booted out of the Combine for acting like an entitled XXXXX.

NB: I think he's a terrific player - the best LB in this draft and one with a potential All-Pro future - but clearly he's got some 'splaining to do about the way he conducts himself off the field and who he hangs around with.

Title: Re: Ten days until the draft. So who is our 1st round pick?
Post by: bamagiantfan on April 21, 2017, 10:22:07 AM
Just for clarity, in my ignorance after moving to Birmingham I figured I would just refer to myself on this board (actually a previous board at first) as bamagiantfan, not knowing that would immediately make me appear to be a Crimson Tide homer. My wife taught at Auburn and UAB and I have never been a fan of the Tide. In fact, the arrogance of their fans is nearly intolerable.

Therefore, I haven't followed the Foster or Williams stories beyond the fact that I know they screwed up. That's why I asked the question. I'll just Google it next time.
Title: Re: Ten days until the draft. So who is our 1st round pick?
Post by: Bob In PA on April 21, 2017, 11:12:18 AM
Maybe I missed it, but was there any issues with the sample other than the dilution? Are they saying they couldn't tell because it was so diluted?

This may not be much of an issue at all and could explain his upset with a medical technician at the combine. If I knew I was clean and somebody tried to tell me I failed a test because I drank too much water and it could affect the career I've spent years preparing for, I would be upset. I don't think I would go as far as he did but I would be absolutely livid!

bama: The answer to your question... Foster's test was disqualified (technically he did not fail the test... he took the test improperly).  His test was treated as though he "failed" (i.e., as though he had a banned or illegal substance in his system) even though they did NOT find anything.  Why did they do that?  Because that is what the "rule-book" says you do when the player provides a sample that is not "test-able." He had recently drunk so much water that a legitimate test result was not possible using the sample he provided.  It was so "watered-down" that even if there were banned or illegal substances in his system, they were not detectable because they had been overly diluted by water.  That does not mean he had done anything wrong, but it smells really bad. LOL

Title: Re: Ten days until the draft. So who is our 1st round pick?
Post by: Painter on April 21, 2017, 11:28:08 AM
For what little it may be worth, this is about as close to consensus as it likely will get given that 14 players have gotten at least one wet finger in the air from the 73 informed sources. But then we can't expect all the Giants' scouts, coaches, coordinators, and front office types to agree on everything. I wonder which ones are getting it straight from Jerry. In any case, I hope it doesn't turn out like the Republican Primary. 


http://www.bigblueview.com/2017/4/21/15379168/nfl-mock-draft-tracker-2017-offensive-tackles-new-york-giants-bolles-ramczyk-njoku-robinson (http://www.bigblueview.com/2017/4/21/15379168/nfl-mock-draft-tracker-2017-offensive-tackles-new-york-giants-bolles-ramczyk-njoku-robinson)

Cheers!
Title: Re: Ten days until the draft. So who is our 1st round pick?
Post by: AP44 on April 21, 2017, 11:30:05 AM
FWIW, I am hearing Nkjiou and Robinson are off the Giants draft board.
Title: Re: Ten days until the draft. So who is our 1st round pick?
Post by: Jolly Blue Giant on April 21, 2017, 11:57:54 AM
Unless there is an obvious player on the board at 23 (McCaffrey or Howard), I suspect the Giants will surprise all of us with a player we did not expect and maybe hadn't even considered.
Title: Re: Ten days until the draft. So who is our 1st round pick?
Post by: UncannyGfan on April 21, 2017, 12:15:15 PM
Raanan seems to think the pick will be Jarrad Davis, who hasn't generated much discussion on our board.  How would you react to the Davis pick?

If he can perform like Pierce, I would be happy with the selection. 

LB is not the most pressing need for next season and I think team is in a win now mode so a LB in the first round might cause some frustration.  However, if you view the championship window over the next 2 or 3 seasons then I think drafting a LB in the first round is fine.
Title: Re: Ten days until the draft. So who is our 1st round pick?
Post by: MightyGiants on April 21, 2017, 12:31:13 PM
Raanan seems to think the pick will be Jarrad Davis, who hasn't generated much discussion on our board.  How would you react to the Davis pick?

If he can perform like Pierce, I would be happy with the selection. 

LB is not the most pressing need for next season and I think team is in a win now mode so a LB in the first round might cause some frustration.  However, if you view the championship window over the next 2 or 3 seasons then I think drafting a LB in the first round is fine.

The player is a great choice.  He would add a great coverage type LB to match up against all those great TEs coming out and a player that could shadow mobile QBs.  He could be a playmaking in the Jessie Armstead mold (I see him as most likely a WILL LB).

My only concern is his injury history.  My first impressive was it was extensive.  Having done some research I think it's more borderline in terms of being a real injury prone player.
Title: Re: Ten days until the draft. So who is our 1st round pick?
Post by: Jolly Blue Giant on April 21, 2017, 12:44:36 PM
I know I sound like a broken record, but I really, really want the Giants to focus on offense. Our defense is solid and it is back mostly intact along with the addition of a healthy Darian Thompson. And picking up another LB just means a delay in giving a top LB a chance like BJ Goodson.

Last year, our games were won by the defense. It's time we put some emphasis on the offense to give the defense some rest during a game. I'd much rather win games 28-9 or 24-3, than 10-9, 7-6, 3-0, etc.

Whatever it takes to add more life to the offense should be our focus. I agree that it's a good idea to draft for depth on the defense, but we need more punch in the offense with a RB that compliments Perkins and perhaps a great TE or whatever. That is just my opinion and I am not a professional scout, just an avid fan with too much time on my hands since I retired
Title: Re: Ten days until the draft. So who is our 1st round pick?
Post by: MightyGiants on April 21, 2017, 12:55:12 PM
I know I sound like a broken record, but I really, really want the Giants to focus on offense. Our defense is solid and it is back mostly intact along with the addition of a healthy Darian Thompson. And picking up another LB just means a delay in giving a top LB a chance like BJ Goodson.

Last year, our games were won by the defense. It's time we put some emphasis on the offense to give the defense some rest during a game. I'd much rather win games 28-9 or 24-3, than 10-9, 7-6, 3-0, etc.

Whatever it takes to add more life to the offense should be our focus. I agree that it's a good idea to draft for depth on the defense, but we need more punch in the offense with a RB that compliments Perkins and perhaps a great TE or whatever. That is just my opinion and I am not a professional scout, just an avid fan with too much time on my hands since I retired

JBG,

There is an interesting debate to be had.  Do you take the good very solid defense and make it elite with a couple of additions or do you try and balance things out and add to the offense?
Title: Re: Ten days until the draft. So who is our 1st round pick?
Post by: Cid in Dupont on April 21, 2017, 02:07:44 PM
As you know I've been on the Malik McDowell band wagon for a while now.  I would still love to get him.  However, I (unlike most of the folks here) really get a seriously bad feeling in my gut when I read JPP's tweets, messages, etc.

For that reason only, I would change my 1st round pick to Barnett DE from Tennessee or Taco Charlton (my 2nd choice).  I simply don't believe that JPP will be ready for the start of the year, I don't believe he'll play more than 12 games, and I really believe that we need to start rotating more DE's in & out to preserve our great defensive ends.  Barnett & Charlton would allow us to rotate in without dropping off much.

I know that we've just spent a ton of $$$ on OV & JPP, but I think it's time to start protecting our investment...because right now if either of them get hurt...we're in a world of trouble.

IMHO...Cid

Oh and yes..."You can never have too many pass rushers"
Title: Re: Ten days until the draft. So who is our 1st round pick?
Post by: MightyGiants on April 21, 2017, 02:39:57 PM
Malik McDowell - DL - Spartans
CBS Sports' Rob Rang relays that "multiple scouts" were disappointed in the interviews of Michigan State DL Malik McDowell at the Combine.
We have heard this refrain before. One scout told Rang that McDowell's interviews were "far from ideal," which is relatively tame language compared to the "awful interview" and "worst interview we did" quotes which were rolling in from evaluators after festivities in Indianapolis concluded. Despite his widely-panned interviews, the 6-foot-7, 290-pounder has enough athletic potential that a team could take a leap with him as early as the back-half of Round 1. A Round 2 selection is probably more likely.
Source: CBS Sports Apr 20 - 8:51 PM

http://www.rotoworld.com/player/cfb/132996/malik-mcdowell (http://www.rotoworld.com/player/cfb/132996/malik-mcdowell)
Title: Re: Ten days until the draft. So who is our 1st round pick?
Post by: bamagiantfan on April 21, 2017, 02:41:23 PM
I've removed my pick for McCaffrey. I simply don't believe he will be there.
Title: Re: Ten days until the draft. So who is our 1st round pick?
Post by: MightyGiants on April 21, 2017, 02:42:14 PM
I've removed my pick for McCaffrey. I simply don't believe he will be there.

Everything I have heard is his ceiling is like 5 or 6 and his floor is pick 15
Title: Re: Ten days until the draft. So who is our 1st round pick?
Post by: Bob In PA on April 21, 2017, 06:46:16 PM
Everything I have heard is his ceiling is like 5 or 6 and his floor is pick 15

Rich: I'd say the Eagles are the floor, only because local sportswriters have convinced me the team believes he's just what is needed to go with their young QB. 

Probably true.  They saw how it worked out for Dallas last year.

If true, I'm rooting for a team to take him near the bottom of the Top 10 (that's a distant possibility) and/or hoping someone will trade up in front of the Eagles (around 12) and snag him (got a decent shot at that IMO).

Bob
Title: Re: Ten days until the draft. So who is our 1st round pick?
Post by: Jolly Blue Giant on April 21, 2017, 06:57:39 PM
Rich: I'd say the Eagles are the floor, only because local sportswriters have convinced me the team believes he's just what is needed to go with their young QB. 

Probably true.  They saw how it worked out for Dallas last year.

If true, I'm rooting for a team to take him near the bottom of the Top 10 (that's a distant possibility) and/or hoping someone will trade up in front of the Eagles (around 12) and snag him (got a decent shot at that IMO).

Bob

I haven't given up hope. History shows that RBs and TEs rarely go in the first round and when it does happen, there's usually 1 stud RB or 1 stud TE that goes. If three RBs and two TEs go in the first round, it will be the first time in a long time. People drool over edge rushers, QBs, CBs, and OTs year after year and figure they can get a good RB or TE later in the draft, but they won't be able to get the other hard to fill positions.

Who knows? I'm holding out hope for McCaffrey or Howard to fall in our lap. What would be funny (and irk me to no end) is if they were on the board when it was our turn at 23 and we draft a QB or CB or something. We'll know in 7 days
Title: Re: Ten days until the draft. So who is our 1st round pick?
Post by: Painter on April 21, 2017, 07:01:45 PM
Same old, same old, folks. Think for yourself. Let's have no more of the I've read or I have heard this or that. Share your opinion, your bias, and let it go it at that. We want to hear what you think. Sure, it is of no more consequence than the opinions of those who may have influenced you, or whom you have fabricated for your purpose. But still, as a fans we must have something to offer each other that's true to ourselves.

It's almost a last chance to own our own before the end off Round 2, next week, when the gassing will have switched from one orifice to the other.

Cheers!
Title: Re: Ten days until the draft. So who is our 1st round pick?
Post by: Bob In PA on April 21, 2017, 07:37:57 PM
I haven't given up hope. History shows that RBs and TEs rarely go in the first round and when it does happen, there's usually 1 stud RB or 1 stud TE that goes. If three RBs and two TEs go in the first round, it will be the first time in a long time. People drool over edge rushers, QBs, CBs, and OTs year after year and figure they can get a good RB or TE later in the draft, but they won't be able to get the other hard to fill positions.

Who knows? I'm holding out hope for McCaffrey or Howard to fall in our lap. What would be funny (and irk me to no end) is if they were on the board when it was our turn at 23 and we draft a QB or CB or something. We'll know in 7 days


JBG: I also have not given up hope.  It could be a really crazy draft this year.  Or it could be completely ho-hum.  Bob
Title: Re: Ten days until the draft. So who is our 1st round pick?
Post by: bamagiantfan on April 21, 2017, 09:14:30 PM
I think McCaffrey goes to Carolina at 8. If not, there are 4 teams before the Giants select that should have interest. I'm stunned to hear myself say this but with the options that are likely when the Giants select, Dalvin Cook is in the mix - David Wilson 2.0.

I am still curious to see who Carolina selects. The top 7 picks in whatever order should be pretty much set - Garrett, Hooker, Solomon Thomas, Adams, Fournette, Lattimore, and then one other ( most likely Trubisky, Howard, or Williams). If Carolina takes a RB with the 8th pick, the draft goes one way. If Howard is still available and they take a TE, it goes another. I think Carolina is hoping Fournette slips to them and if he doesn't, they have a choice to make. If the second RB of the night comes off the board there, it gets interesting in the next 6-8 selections. I think we could see a lot of shuffling of teams wanting to move in or out between 9 and 15.
Title: Re: Ten days until the draft. So who is our 1st round pick?
Post by: Jolly Blue Giant on April 23, 2017, 12:06:32 PM
I think there are going to be lots of surprises in the first round of this draft. When it's our turn to be on the clock, I imagine the war room will have tough choices to make, but I hope it's a no-brainer because McCaffrey or OJ Howard is still available.

The wait is winding down to just 4 days and it's going to get tougher to wait with each passing day (for me anyway). More exciting to me than when I was a kid on Christmas Eve or when I was a16 yr old teen on the night before my first deer hunt dreaming of a 12-point buck stepping out in front of me (BTW, ended up getting a spike horn on the last day of the season, lol). All the speculating and second guessing each other will come to an abrupt end and then the depression follows. Not because of the picks, but because of the lull in the football world after all this pre-draft hype and anxiety.
Title: Re: Ten days until the draft. So who is our 1st round pick?
Post by: tonyt830 on April 23, 2017, 12:37:59 PM
Though I might be in the minority, I would take Lamp at 23. I know some people would say, you don't draft a guard or center in rd 1. But I think he can come in on day 1 and start either guard position or RT. Heck he might be able to play center in a pinch.  He is the only O-linemen I would want at 23, especially because of his versatility.  I would be good if Howard or McCaffrey fell to 23.  Once again, the only TE and RB I would take in Rd 1.  And if all 3 of them were gone, I would be ok with Cunningham at 23. 
Title: Re: Ten days until the draft. So who is our 1st round pick?
Post by: tonyt830 on April 23, 2017, 12:39:32 PM
Somehow Dion Dawkins got left off your list   :suspious:

I don't care what the draft community says, I like him and I think he will be a very good offensive lineman for the Giants who has great versitility

I too am a fan of Dawkins.  I know some project him as a guard, but I think he can play RT as well.  I thought he might be an option in the 2nd rd, but I think I saw a mock where he goes in the 1st rd?
Title: Re: Ten days until the draft. So who is our 1st round pick?
Post by: MightyGiants on April 23, 2017, 01:23:30 PM
Though I might be in the minority, I would take Lamp at 23. I know some people would say, you don't draft a guard or center in rd 1. But I think he can come in on day 1 and start either guard position or RT. Heck he might be able to play center in a pinch.  He is the only O-linemen I would want at 23, especially because of his versatility.  I would be good if Howard or McCaffrey fell to 23.  Once again, the only TE and RB I would take in Rd 1.  And if all 3 of them were gone, I would be ok with Cunningham at 23.

Lamp could be a very nice LG for the Giants.  The only question I have is where do you put Pugh.  LT?  RT?
Title: Re: Ten days until the draft. So who is our 1st round pick?
Post by: Jolly Blue Giant on April 23, 2017, 01:58:08 PM
Lamp could be a very nice LG for the Giants.  The only question I have is where do you put Pugh.  LT?  RT?

I don't think Lamp would step right in. He could backup Pugh as well as compete with Jerry (or back him up) for the RG position. By next year, the team would either cut Jerry or perhaps (I hope not), let Pugh go to free agency and Lamp would be ready to take over a spot. I don't think there is an offensive line player in the draft that would take a starting spot on the Giants' line this year. Kind of nice to have quality backups though as some player is always tweaking something and needing a rest.
Title: Re: Ten days until the draft. So who is our 1st round pick?
Post by: tonyt830 on April 23, 2017, 04:50:18 PM
Lamp could be a very nice LG for the Giants.  The only question I have is where do you put Pugh.  LT?  RT?

Actually Mighty, I think Lamp could step in and play RG or RT and leave Pugh at LG.  I know they signed Fluker and re-signed Jerry.  I don't think the O-line is set in stone yet.  I am leaning in the direction that Flowers will be the starting LT in 2017, barring injury. 

I did hear of a couple fans, not on here, mention that they could see Pugh going to LT and moving Flowers to either RG or RT.  Then yes, I could see Flowers stepping in at LG, with a potential O-line of Pugh, Lamp, Richburg, Jerry/Fluker/Flowers, Flowers/Fluker/Hart---left to right.

Personally I don't agree with moving too many people around.  I think this year will be make it or break it for Flowers at LT.  Leave Pugh and Richburg at LG and C respectively.  Then sure up the right side with Fluker, Jerry, Hart and/or draft pick. 

The Giants have to think about both Pugh and Richburg,  Both are going to be free agents after next season. Things will be tight with the salary cap too.  So I would not be surprised if the Giants drafted an interior O-linemen this year somewhere in the draft.