Is it a good thing that Darius Slayton might once again by the receiving leader?

[Ed Vette]

Ed every single 1500 yard receiver over the last 20 years on the list you provided is a Hall of Famer except for Josh Gordon, who was a Hall of Fame caliber talent whose career was ruined by substance abuse at a young age.

Do you think Slayton is a HOF caliber talent? If so we can respectfully agree to disagree. I think he is a good player, and I agree with your statement that he has been the best (or at least most productive) Giants receiver of the last three seasons. But consistently 1500 receiving yards per season with a better QB and O line? That would make him first ballot HOF material. I can't and won't get on board with that. Yes, he's good. But he's not all time. Even in a much better situation.

You're putting active players  in the HOF. We are talking the last three years. Look at Slayton's number of targets and receptions compared to Diggs, Kupp and Jefferson. Look at Slayton's yards per reception behind Daniel Jones. Ok, 1500 yards is a lofty goal but if he had the targets those players had, do the math. 100 receptions at 14.5 yards per reception is 1450 yards. How about 110 receptions?

Just because this Offense has been horrible, don't throw the baby out with the bath water.

How many yards would Saquon Barkley have behind a decent Oline? He's not headed for the HOF either at this point.

[Doc16LT56]

This is the trap Mike Lombardi says teams fall into. In one of his podcasts he used the NBA as an example. A desperate team signs a bench player who averaged 10 points and 5 rebounds in 20 minutes per game. They assume the player will average 20 points and 10 rebounds if he plays 40 minutes a game. But when the player is on the floor for that many minutes his performance regresses. Lombardi's point is you can't take a role player and manufacture a star performer simply by giving him more playing time, or in this case targets. If it was that easy, everyone would do it.

[DaveBrown74]

I view Barkley very differently from a pure talent perspective than I do Slayton. Barkley is a great talent who was done in by injuries. He didn't need everything around him to be perfect to put up huge numbers. He just did it, and he did it on a very bad team (see 2018 season). That's a great player. He won't go to the HOF because of all the injuries, but talent-wise he is in a different stratosphere than Slatyon.

Again this is in no way to knock Slayton. He is a good player who would have a roster spot on any NFL team and  meaningful job in some offenses. But is he a top 5, 10 or even top 20 NFL receiver (from a raw ability perspective) like you seem to be suggesting? I don't buy that.

[Ed Vette]

I view Barkley very differently from a pure talent perspective than I do Slayton. Barkley is a great talent who was done in by injuries. He didn't need everything around him to be perfect to put up huge numbers. He just did it, and he did it on a very bad team (see 2018 season). That's a great player. He won't go to the HOF because of all the injuries, but talent-wise he is in a different stratosphere than Slatyon.

Again this is in no way to knock Slayton. He is a good player who would have a roster spot on any NFL team and  meaningful job in some offenses. But is he a top 5, 10 or even top 20 NFL receiver (from a raw ability perspective) like you seem to be suggesting? I don't buy that.

With a QB who passes for 3000 yards a season, how would you know.

[BluesCruz]

I view Barkley very differently from a pure talent perspective than I do Slayton. Barkley is a great talent who was done in by injuries. He didn't need everything around him to be perfect to put up huge numbers. He just did it, and he did it on a very bad team (see 2018 season). That's a great player. He won't go to the HOF because of all the injuries, but talent-wise he is in a different stratosphere than Slatyon.

Again this is in no way to knock Slayton. He is a good player who would have a roster spot on any NFL team and  meaningful job in some offenses. But is he a top 5, 10 or even top 20 NFL receiver (from a raw ability perspective) like you seem to be suggesting? I don't buy that.

You have it backwards

Slayton is a better than average player on a lower than average team with a lower than average QB (Jones) although I do not know why Tommy is not throwing to Slayton more often

Barkley is a huge disappointment.  Picked #1 in the draft he has been either hurt or average his whole career

He cannot block very well, has trouble with short passes, and averages 4 YPC but those numbers bolstered by 2-3 long runs per game.  Take out the occasional long run and hes good for a yard per carry. He does not fight for extra yardage

He cannot break a tackle to save himself and has zero vision, normally running into the teammate in front of him before hitting the turf

Watching James Cooks for the Bills the last game, he was running through tackles like a man possessed and destroyed the Cowpokes.  Compare that to Barkley who goes down so easily.

Slayton is a valuable Giants player.  Barkley I'm hoping will find a new next year. Time to move on from Gettlemans folly. 

Barkley and Jones would both probably be happier on a more experienced and polished team like say the Vikings.  We need to rebuild with young legs

[DaveBrown74]

You have it backwards

Slayton is a better than average player on a lower than average team with a lower than average QB (Jones) although I do not know why Tommy is not throwing to Slayton more often

Barkley is a huge disappointment.  Picked #1 in the draft he has been either hurt or average his whole career

He cannot block very well, has trouble with short passes, and averages 4 YPC but those numbers bolstered by 2-3 long runs per game.  Take out the occasional long run and hes good for a yard per carry. He does not fight for extra yardage

He cannot break a tackle to save himself and has zero vision, normally running into the teammate in front of him before hitting the turf

Watching James Cooks for the Bills the last game, he was running through tackles like a man possessed and destroyed the Cowpokes.  Compare that to Barkley who goes down so easily.

Slayton is a valuable Giants player.  Barkley I'm hoping will find a new next year. Time to move on from Gettlemans folly. 

Barkley and Jones would both probably be happier on a more experienced and polished team like say the Vikings.  We need to rebuild with young legs

Barkley is a disappointment relative to his draft status mainly due to his injuries. It is also a highly questionable move to take a RB second overall (questionable is a friendly way of putting how I feel), given the lack of positional value.

As a raw, pure talent in the absolute sense, Barkley is better than Slayton. Barkley prior to all his injuries was a top three RB in the league. Slayton is not a top 20 receiver in the league. I'm talking raw talent relative to peers, not the actual outcome.

Unlike Slayton, Barkley has performed at an elite level on this team with a terrible offensive line, terrible play caller, and terrible QB play and offense around him. He didn't need everything to be perfect around him to perform. See his 2018 season. Slayton is not capable of performing at that type of level. If you stuck on him on the Dolphins or some elite offense would his numbers better? Of course they would. Nobody would argue otherwise. But the point is that he needs to be in a great situation for his numbers to be much better. Barkley, at least prior to all his injuries, does not. In fact, Barkley last year was much better (again relative to his peers around the league) than Slayton was in the same offense.

I've been very vocal for a while now that I don't want to re-sign Barkley. It is an economically sound move in my view, and I don't like his durability nor do I like the short shelf-life of the position. (insofar as paying up to have a 27/28 year old for a couple years with a guarantee). But that doesn't mean I don't think he has talent. He clearly does. It has deteriorated somewhat with all the injuries and mileage, but we have seen him do it.

[Ed Vette]

Barkley is a disappointment relative to his draft status mainly due to his injuries. It is also a highly questionable move to take a RB second overall (questionable is a friendly way of putting how I feel), given the lack of positional value.

As a raw, pure talent in the absolute sense, Barkley is better than Slayton. Barkley prior to all his injuries was a top three RB in the league. Slayton is not a top 20 receiver in the league. I'm talking raw talent relative to peers, not the actual outcome.

Unlike Slayton, Barkley has performed at an elite level on this team with a terrible offensive line, terrible play caller, and terrible QB play and offense around him. He didn't need everything to be perfect around him to perform. See his 2018 season. Slayton is not capable of performing at that type of level. If you stuck on him on the Dolphins or some elite offense would his numbers better? Of course they would. Nobody would argue otherwise. But the point is that he needs to be in a great situation for his numbers to be much better. Barkley, at least prior to all his injuries, does not. In fact, Barkley last year was much better (again relative to his peers around the league) than Slayton was in the same offense.

I've been very vocal for a while now that I don't want to re-sign Barkley. It is an economically sound move in my view, and I don't like his durability nor do I like the short shelf-life of the position. (insofar as paying up to have a 27/28 year old for a couple years with a guarantee). But that doesn't mean I don't think he has talent. He clearly does. It has deteriorated somewhat with all the injuries and mileage, but we have seen him do it.

Slayton had 23% of the passing yards last season on 15% of the targets. The top QBs in the league throw for 4500-5000 yards. As the X Receiver, Slayton hasn't been targeted on all those short passes in that quick game with a Run based Offense and a QB with less than 2 seconds to throw on almost 50% of his snaps.

[TONKA56]

Barkley is a disappointment relative to his draft status mainly due to his injuries. It is also a highly questionable move to take a RB second overall (questionable is a friendly way of putting how I feel), given the lack of positional value.

As a raw, pure talent in the absolute sense, Barkley is better than Slayton. Barkley prior to all his injuries was a top three RB in the league. Slayton is not a top 20 receiver in the league. I'm talking raw talent relative to peers, not the actual outcome.

Unlike Slayton, Barkley has performed at an elite level on this team with a terrible offensive line, terrible play caller, and terrible QB play and offense around him. He didn't need everything to be perfect around him to perform. See his 2018 season. Slayton is not capable of performing at that type of level. If you stuck on him on the Dolphins or some elite offense would his numbers better? Of course they would. Nobody would argue otherwise. But the point is that he needs to be in a great situation for his numbers to be much better. Barkley, at least prior to all his injuries, does not. In fact, Barkley last year was much better (again relative to his peers around the league) than Slayton was in the same offense.

I've been very vocal for a while now that I don't want to re-sign Barkley. It is an economically sound move in my view, and I don't like his durability nor do I like the short shelf-life of the position. (insofar as paying up to have a 27/28 year old for a couple years with a guarantee). But that doesn't mean I don't think he has talent. He clearly does. It has deteriorated somewhat with all the injuries and mileage, but we have seen him do it.

If the Giants want to move on from Barkley they should have already made preparations to do so. I don't understand this team's approach to the running back position in the slightest.

[Stringer Bell]

You guys are nuts. If he had a top ten QB with a competent Offensive Line, Slayton would have 1500 yards a season the past few years. Old memories of his earlier dropsies. He's fast, runs clean routes and has hauled in some challenging passes.

It's quite comical to see someone say Slayton is a consistent 1,500-yard WR with a better QB and then have them call other people's opinions nuts. LOL

[Ed Vette]

It's quite comical to see someone say Slayton is a consistent 1,500-yard WR with a better QB and then have them call other people's opinions nuts. LOL

It is, isn't it. 

[TDToomer]

Ed every single 1500 yard receiver over the last 20 years on the list you provided is a Hall of Famer except for Josh Gordon, who was a Hall of Fame caliber talent whose career was ruined by substance abuse at a young age.

Do you think Slayton is a HOF caliber talent? If so we can respectfully agree to disagree. I think he is a good player, and I agree with your statement that he has been the best (or at least most productive) Giants receiver of the last three seasons. But consistently 1500 receiving yards per season with a better QB and O line? That would make him first ballot HOF material. I can't and won't get on board with that. Yes, he's good. But he's not all time. Even in a much better situation.

  Smith, Wayne, Andre Johnson and Brown are not in the HOF. They may not be eligible yet but the point stands.

[DaveBrown74]

Smith, Wayne, Andre Johnson and Brown are not in the HOF. They may not be eligible yet but the point stands.

My bad for Wayne and Smith Jr, and you're right to call it out. Those were oversights on my part. Sorry about that to all. I would argue they should be but that's a different argument and not what I intended to mean.

Johnson was considered a big snub this year. I think he gets in.

AB had a HOF caliber career IMO. He deserves it based on his play on the field. Admittedly he fell off sharply at the end of his career but that was primarily due to off the field issues (I suspect he has CTE or some significant mental illness). He might be one of the top 10 receiving talents of all time. He was completely unstoppable for about six years in his prime. Whether he gets in or not is another discussion, but if he doesn't it won't be because his play on the field wasn't up to that type of level.

[JT39]

Darius Slayton is probably the worst number 1 WR in the league. And if he were a number 2 he would be bottom tier here.

People have to realize the talent on this team stinks. We were better off letting him go this offseason and building some OL depth instead. He is not a difference maker. Has one good game every 7-8 games. Drops too many passes. Doesnt make contested catches. Just need to move on from players like this.

[Jclayton92]

Not to throw fuel on the fire but analytically Slayton was a top 15 Wr last year. He was easily top 15 in every metric above replacement. So while the actual production isn't there, because our Qbs are absolutely horrible, our Wrs weren't the issue last year and likely aren't this year. Wandale, Hodgins, Slayton, and our other slot wr last year all ranked really well above replacement. It's why the Jones doesn't have weapons theory that floated around last season was so baffling, Jones has weapons, he just couldn't ever get it to them.

I remember @Ed Vette and I brought it up several times last year and he even provided the graphs/stats showing that our Wrs were doing really well and that they weren't the issue.

If we had an actual Qb Slayton easily goes for a 1,000 + and Hyatt is ROTY talks, while Wandale would have had a really nice comeback story.

[Ed Vette]

If the Giants want to move on from Barkley they should have already made preparations to do so. I don't understand this team's approach to the running back position in the slightest.

He may want to move on from the Giants. They may come to an agreement. I don't know how that would work but he hinted.