Considering we are at week 6 already, as a Giant tradition, it's time to talk draft picks. (To reiterate this is a reflection on the frustration and disappointment I've had with this team which is at an all time high as far back as the punt return for a TD to DJax)
Given the injuries to DJ and how we have destroyed his development, the Giants need to look forward for his long term replacement.
So which if the QB prospectd out there should we take a long hard look and why.
Share your thoughts.
I still question whether John Mara will allow Schoen to draft a QB to replace Daniel Jones but I don't watch much of any College Football so I will defer to you all who do. Interested in
@Gmo11 thoughts as he was someone years ago who was high on Herbert and obviously nailed it.
Quote from: Rambo89 on October 10, 2023, 06:02:34 PMI still question whether John Mara will allow Schoen to draft a QB to replace Daniel Jones but I don't watch much of any College Football so I will defer to you all who do. Interested in @Gmo11 thoughts as he was someone years ago who was high on Herbert and obviously nailed it.
I gotta believe Mara is going to trust Schoen however he wants to go
Quote from: Rambo89 on October 10, 2023, 06:02:34 PMI still question whether John Mara will allow Schoen to draft a QB to replace Daniel Jones but I don't watch much of any College Football so I will defer to you all who do. Interested in @Gmo11 thoughts as he was someone years ago who was high on Herbert and obviously nailed it.
You know I'm a Jones supporter and even say he gets out of this funk when the line miraculously gets better, but Mara needs to take a long hard look at DJ's health and assess his realistic longevity with the team.
It's definitely early for this but Williams and Maye are my top two. I would have told you the same thing back in August too. I think both are very talented.
Penix is interesting. Up until this year I thought of him as a very good college QB but not necessarily a top pro prospect. I am coming around on that view a little. I have liked what I have seen from him. He seems to have excellent processing speed.
Quote from: GMenRF on October 10, 2023, 06:10:47 PMYou know I'm a Jones supporter and even say he gets out of this funk when the line miraculously gets better, but Mara needs to take a long hard look at DJ's health and assess his realistic longevity with the team.
Think it comes down to if you are Schoen and are in a position to draft someone who you consider to be an elite QB prospects in 2024 you make the move because if you don't and just roll with Daniel Jones in 2024 you may not be given the opportunity to draft a QB in 2025 if things also go south in 2024.
Quote from: Rambo89 on October 10, 2023, 06:14:51 PMThink it comes down to if you are Schoen and are in a position to draft someone who you consider to be an elite QB prospects in 2024 you make the move because if you don't and just roll with Daniel Jones in 2024 you may not be given the opportunity to draft a QB in 2025 if things also go south in 2024.
I'm leaning on QB as well considering how we whiffed on Neal and not changes/adjustments have been made (ie Bobby Johnson is still part of the coaching staff) I don't have confidence on this team drafting a Tackle early and developing that player properly.
Honestly, I need Schoen to admit they missed on Neal and at least salvage him by sliding him to Guard and let Euzudu play RT when Thomas comes back.
Don't get too high on the PAC 12 QBs out Williams. Horrible defensive division. Air raid offenses. Barely hit. And nix and pennix are in their 5th and 6th years already.
Here's my top 5
Williams
Maye
McCarthy
Leonard
Ewers
Quote from: GMenRF on October 10, 2023, 06:18:09 PMI'm leaning on QB as well considering how we whiffed on Neal and not changes/adjustments have been made (ie Bobby Johnson is still part of the coaching staff) I don't have confidence on this team drafting a Tackle early and developing that player properly.
Honestly, I need Schoen to admit they missed on Neal and at least salvage him by sliding him to Guard and let Euzudu play RT when Thomas comes back.
Unless you are replacing Andrew Thomas as Left Tackle it makes zero sense to me to spend another Top 10 draft selection on a linemen. In general unless you're talking about a Left Tackle I am not a fan of spending a high first round pick on a linemen. I even had some reservations about taking another linemen before the 2022 draft though I was good with Neal at the time.
Quote from: JT39 on October 10, 2023, 06:21:37 PMDon't get too high on the PAC 12 QBs out Williams. Horrible defensive division. Air raid offenses. Barely hit. And nix and pennix are in their 5th and 6th years already.
Here's my top 5
Williams
Maye
McCarthy
Leonard
Ewers
The knocks on Mahomes when he was drafted was that he came from an Air Raid offense and we see how he's turned out.
Quote from: GMenRF on October 10, 2023, 05:57:26 PMConsidering we are at week 6 already, as a Giant tradition, it's time to talk draft picks. (To reiterate this is a reflection on the frustration and disappointment I've had with this team which is at an all time high as far back as the punt return for a TD to DJax)
Given the injuries to DJ and how we have destroyed his development, the Giants need to look forward for his long term replacement.
So which if the QB prospectd out there should we take a long hard look and why.
Share your thoughts.
A lot of the college season left to go but in addition to those mentioned you have Bo Nix, JJ McCarthy, Quinn Ewers, Jayden Daniels, Dillon Gabriel and Jordan Travis. All of them have the physical tools and production to merit a first round grade. If all of them come out a couple will still be on the board at the beginning of the second round.
Quote from: madbadger on October 10, 2023, 06:26:45 PMA lot of the college season left to go but in addition to those mentioned you have Bo Nix, JJ McCarthy, Quinn Ewers, Jayden Daniels, Dillon Gabriel and Jordan Travis. All of them have the physical tools and production to merit a first round grade. If all of them come out a couple will still be on the board at the beginning of the second round.
I am not a Gabriel fan. He's like a 5-6 rounder. Slow, slow release, and not strong enough arm.
Travis scares me because of guilt and injury history. McDaniels is fair - probably a 3-4 round grade on him.
The 5 I listed I believe have superior traits that correlate to the NFL a little bit better.
But I am not opposed to some of the guys you mentioned in middle-late rounds as prospects
Quote from: JT39 on October 10, 2023, 06:21:37 PMDon't get too high on the PAC 12 QBs out Williams. Horrible defensive division. Air raid offenses. Barely hit. And nix and pennix are in their 5th and 6th years already.
Here's my top 5
Williams
Maye
McCarthy
Leonard
Ewers
Where we pick. I strongly doubt Williams or Maye will be there when we pick. Quinn Ewers might be there when we pick.
Quote from: brownelvis54 on October 10, 2023, 06:35:32 PMWhere we pick. I strongly doubt Williams or Maye will be there when we pick. Quinn Ewers might be there when we pick.
The odds don't favor it, but we're 1-4 right now and a 14.5 point underdog in our next game. Really too early to know. There is no 0-5 teams, so we're right in the mix at the moment.
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on October 10, 2023, 06:41:09 PMThe odds don't favor it, but we're 1-4 right now and a 14.5 point underdog in our next game. Really too early to know. There is no 0-5 teams, so we're right in the mix at the moment.
Actually, Carolina Panthers are currently 0-5.... it would be interesting to see if they would go after williams if they do get the number one overall pick.
Quote from: brownelvis54 on October 10, 2023, 07:20:14 PMActually, Carolina Panthers are currently 0-5.... it would be interesting to see if they would go after williams if they do get the number one overall pick.
Whoops, my mistake, you're absolutely right. They're probably the only team I would say has been worse than us this year.
Quote from: brownelvis54 on October 10, 2023, 07:20:14 PMActually, Carolina Panthers are currently 0-5.... it would be interesting to see if they would go after williams if they do get the number one overall pick.
That pick went to Chicago as part of the trade up for Bryce Young. Not out of the realm of possibility Chicago moves on from Fields. But if they keep him, that pick has to be auctioned off to the highest bidder given the demand there may be to get Caleb Williams.
Quote from: brownelvis54 on October 10, 2023, 07:20:14 PMActually, Carolina Panthers are currently 0-5.... it would be interesting to see if they would go after williams if they do get the number one overall pick.
Actually it would be the Bears pick. Remember Carolina traded up to the Bears #1 spot this past spring and don't have a 2024 1st round picks. That belongs to the Bears. You could see a situation where the Bears have the 1st and 2nd overall picks in the draft next spring.
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on October 10, 2023, 07:21:45 PMWhoops, my mistake, you're absolutely right. They're probably the only team I would say has been worse than us this year.
Panthers would trade out of 1. There's no way they're taking a QB right after they just took a QB first overall.
The best bet is Arizona going after the first pick. They have the Texans first round pick as well I believe. So if Texans can off slide - they can have two very high picks.
Quote from: brownelvis54 on October 10, 2023, 07:20:14 PMActually, Carolina Panthers are currently 0-5.... it would be interesting to see if they would go after williams if they do get the number one overall pick.
After all they gave up to get the first overall pick from the Bears last year. No way. They are far more likely to try and trade down to help surround Young with help.
Quote from: JT39 on October 10, 2023, 06:21:37 PMDon't get too high on the PAC 12 QBs out Williams. Horrible defensive division. Air raid offenses. Barely hit. And nix and pennix are in their 5th and 6th years already.
Here's my top 5
Williams
Maye
McCarthy
Leonard
Ewers
Leonard and his 3 passing touchdowns for Duke this year? No thanks. We've gotten royally screwed with the last two quarterbacks we've drafted from Duke. Taking another 6-5 guy from Durham with a mediocre resume won't fly
Quote from: H-Town G-Fan on October 10, 2023, 07:35:58 PMThat pick went to Chicago as part of the trade up for Bryce Young. Not out of the realm of possibility Chicago moves on from Fields. But if they keep him, that pick has to be auctioned off to the highest bidder given the demand there may be to get Caleb Williams.
Whoops I forgot about that was the trade.
Chicago and Arizona might have two top 10 picks. Lot of ammo to get what they need.
Quote from: Rambo89 on October 10, 2023, 06:14:51 PMThink it comes down to if you are Schoen and are in a position to draft someone who you consider to be an elite QB prospects in 2024 you make the move because if you don't and just roll with Daniel Jones in 2024 you may not be given the opportunity to draft a QB in 2025 if things also go south in 2024.
Right now I think they would draft a QB. We'll see if things get better or stay similar to now. I know there are some references "winning meaningless games" in another thread. If that happens enough and Jones looks better down the stretch, it could be a tougher sell to ownership.
Personally even if Jones looked better down the stretch and the team is still in position to get a QB they like, I think they should go for it.
If Jones comes back in 2024 and balls out (unlikely) then you have a good problem, Brees/Riversque.
If he looks the same, you put in the rookie.
Quote from: madbadger on October 10, 2023, 08:04:04 PMLeonard and his 3 passing touchdowns for Duke this year? No thanks. We've gotten royally screwed with the last two quarterbacks we've drafted from Duke. Taking another 6-5 guy from Durham with a mediocre resume won't fly
If you're an NBA team needing a point guard you look to Duke. If you're an NFL team needing a QB you don't look to Duke.
I want to see how all these college QBs perform over their last 4 games of the season — the ones that typically really matter plus any playoff games.
My Top 15 Qbs for the 2024 Draft
As of Week 7 of the CFB season.
I love college football and watch most of these Qbs weekly and have already done significant tape on them. As the season progresses so do the Qbs so this could change but right now here's my Top 15 plus the list of guys who didn't make it that I considered.
1. Caleb Williams, USC would be a 7-5 team without Williams but as it stands they are undefeated because of him.
2. Drake Maye, the potential is all there for this kid to be the next guy.
3. JJ Mccarthy, he slightly edges out Ewers here because of his accuracy and ability to create.
4. Quinn Ewers, the arm talent us undeniable at this point, add in a mullet and this guy has moxy. Oh wait he cut the mullet, anyways him not being as mobile is the one reason he's not being comped as the next Josh Allen.
5. Sheddur Sanders, being coached by deion and Tom Brady isn't bad, but Sheddur is doing fine by himself. 2,040 yards 6 Tds and 2 Int in 5 games is wild especially with the horrible oline he has. He is definitely a guy this offseason.
6. Jaxson Dart, Yes he played bad against Alabama but his tape as a true freshman at USC and his tape this year will have someone take a chance early as he has everything.
7. Jayden Daniels, He would be higher on my list as he checks all the boxes but it's truly hard to tell if it's him or the talent around him. Is he Burrow with legs or Jemarcus Russell
8. Micheal Penix, virtually has the same stats as Sanders but age is a factor. Will be 24 by the time he suits up for an NFL team.
9. Micheal Pratt, the Tulane star will end up being that 3rd round QB ala Sam howell or cousins that makes it and plays a decade plus in the league.
10. Grayson Mccall, if you look up his stats this season you won't be overly impressed as all the talent left Coastal Carolina this past offseason because they thought he was leaving. From 2020-2022 all he did was average 2800 yards 26 Tds and 3 Int along with a rating near 200. Someone is going to get this guy and he's going to be their Brock Purdy.
11 Bo Nix, is a little to old and injury prone for me to be comfortable taking him
12. Jordan Travis, while he's playing great he doesn't have any real arm strength and other things like his 6'0 height concern me with him.
13. KJ Jefferson, at this point in the draft it's about upside and this kid is big, strong, fast, and can make most of the throws.
14. Joe Milton, again upside prevails someone will take him thinking he hasn't gotten enough reps and be dazzled by arm talent and speed.
15. Sam Hartman, while ancient he can throw well and lead an offense effectively. He's that Gardner Minshew type of career backup that actually you don't mind getting in the game.
The Rest who could move upside the season progresses.
Riley Lenonard-Duke
Cam Ward- WSU
Tyler Van Dyke- Miami
Cameron Rising
DJ Uaigalelei- Oregon State
Spencer Rattler- South Carolina
Dillon Gabriel- Oklahoma
Devin Leary- UK
Kyle Mccord-OSU
Jason Daniels- Kansas
Quote from: Rambo89 on October 10, 2023, 06:02:34 PMI still question whether John Mara will allow Schoen to draft a QB to replace Daniel Jones but I don't watch much of any College Football so I will defer to you all who do. Interested in @Gmo11 thoughts as he was someone years ago who was high on Herbert and obviously nailed it.
Well thank you! I also thought Josh Allen was going to be the worst QB of that class so...ummm...not exactly batting 1.000 on these things. But since you asked... Caleb Williams and Drake Maye will likely be the first two picks in the draft. Personally I think Williams is clearly the better of the two. I really really like what I see from him.
If the Giants end up with pick #2 and Williams is gone it'll be an awfully difficult choice between Maye and Marvin Harrison Jr who is in the same tier as Jamarr Chase was coming out of college. Which is to say it would be stunning if this guy wasn't an all pro type talent almost immediately.
Deion Sanders' kid is also an interesting prospect but I haven't seen as much of him yet to know if he's worth consideration that high in the draft.
Quote from: Jclayton92 on October 10, 2023, 10:26:17 PMMy Top 15 Qbs for the 2024 Draft
As of Week 7 of the CFB season.
I love college football and watch most of these Qbs weekly and have already done significant tape on them. As the season progresses so do the Qbs so this could change but right now here's my Top 15 plus the list of guys who didn't make it that I considered.
1. Caleb Williams, USC would be a 7-5 team without Williams but as it stands they are undefeated because of him.
2. Drake Maye, the potential is all there for this kid to be the next guy.
3. JJ Mccarthy, he slightly edges out Ewers here because of his accuracy and ability to create.
4. Quinn Ewers, the arm talent us undeniable at this point, add in a mullet and this guy has moxy. Oh wait he cut the mullet, anyways him not being as mobile is the one reason he's not being comped as the next Josh Allen.
5. Sheddur Sanders, being coached by deion and Tom Brady isn't bad, but Sheddur is doing fine by himself. 2,040 yards 6 Tds and 2 Int in 5 games is wild especially with the horrible oline he has. He is definitely a guy this offseason.
6. Jaxson Dart, Yes he played bad against Alabama but his tape as a true freshman at USC and his tape this year will have someone take a chance early as he has everything.
7. Jayden Daniels, He would be higher on my list as he checks all the boxes but it's truly hard to tell if it's him or the talent around him. Is he Burrow with legs or Jemarcus Russell
8. Micheal Penix, virtually has the same stats as Sanders but age is a factor. Will be 24 by the time he suits up for an NFL team.
9. Micheal Pratt, the Tulane star will end up being that 3rd round QB ala Sam howell or cousins that makes it and plays a decade plus in the league.
10. Grayson Mccall, if you look up his stats this season you won't be overly impressed as all the talent left Coastal Carolina this past offseason because they thought he was leaving. From 2020-2022 all he did was average 2800 yards 26 Tds and 3 Int along with a rating near 200. Someone is going to get this guy and he's going to be their Brock Purdy.
11 Bo Nix, is a little to old and injury prone for me to be comfortable taking him
12. Jordan Travis, while he's playing great he doesn't have any real arm strength and other things like his 6'0 height concern me with him.
13. KJ Jefferson, at this point in the draft it's about upside and this kid is big, strong, fast, and can make most of the throws.
14. Joe Milton, again upside prevails someone will take him thinking he hasn't gotten enough reps and be dazzled by arm talent and speed.
15. Sam Hartman, while ancient he can throw well and lead an offense effectively. He's that Gardner Minshew type of career backup that actually you don't mind getting in the game.
The Rest who could move upside the season progresses.
Riley Lenonard-Duke
Cam Ward- WSU
Tyler Van Dyke- Miami
Cameron Rising
DJ Uaigalelei- Oregon State
Spencer Rattler- South Carolina
Dillon Gabriel- Oklahoma
Devin Leary- UK
Kyle Mccord-OSU
Jason Daniels- Kansas
Excellent write-up JClay. Thanks.