Big Blue Huddle

Hopefully Tommy destroys the Eagles both games

Wake up and say what a nice dream I had last night.

I hope the Giants can be at least semi competitive in the first Eagles game.  Got a feeling the Eagles will be resting some of their players in the 2nd Eagles game which will be the last game of the year and the Giants may have a chance.

Quote from: BluesCruz on December 03, 2023, 10:34:41 AMHopefully Tommy destroys the Eagles both games

Best post of the year!!!

The problem with option 2 is if the Giants are 9-8, they won't be able to "draft a top flight QB anyway."

They can still draft a QB and hope he ends up being "top flight", but I assume the poll option meant top flight prospect. If we're 9-8, and we go QB, we'll be taking the 5th or 6th QB off the board, and we'll probably be reaching in a huge way.

I think if the Giants were to finish 9-8 with Tommy D starting all games, he'd be pretty much a lock to be the backup next year, and assuming Dimes is not ready to go in week one, he'd probably be the week one starter. I do think they'd probably add another QB though - either a cheap vet or perhaps a developmental guy in the draft.

If the Giants run the table from here, I read that they have something like a 90% chance of being in the playoffs. So if Tommy D won a playoff game or two on top of finishing 9-8, and then played solidly in the loss, you could argue he'd be our clear starter next year and Jones would have to earn his job back.

All of this is silly conjecture though so, of course. None of it is going to happen.

You can vote twice BTW

Put him on the cover of Madden. But draft a QB anyway

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on December 03, 2023, 11:22:42 AMThe problem with option 2 is if the Giants are 9-8, they won't be able to "draft a top flight QB anyway."

They can still draft a QB and hope he ends up being "top flight", but I assume the poll option meant top flight prospect. If we're 9-8, and we go QB, we'll be taking the 5th or 6th QB off the board, and we'll probably be reaching in a huge way.

I think if the Giants were to finish 9-8 with Tommy D starting all games, he'd be pretty much a lock to be the backup next year, and assuming Dimes is not ready to go in week one, he'd probably be the week one starter. I do think they'd probably add another QB though - either a cheap vet or perhaps a developmental guy in the draft.

If the Giants run the table from here, I read that they have something like a 90% chance of being in the playoffs. So if Tommy D won a playoff game or two on top of finishing 9-8, and then played solidly in the loss, you could argue he'd be our clear starter next year and Jones would have to earn his job back.

All of this is silly conjecture though so, of course. None of it is going to happen.

Id give it a 25% chance of happening

The Giants led by a ferocious D, TommyD, Barkley, and a much improved Oline are now a very tough out

Mara will offer all season ticket holders a free medium pepsi

Quote from: BluesCruz on December 03, 2023, 11:30:44 AMId give it a 25% chance of happening

The Giants led by a ferocious D, TommyD, Barkley, and a much improved Oline are now a very tough out

If they're such a tough out why did they need six turnovers to beat the Commanders and a missed 35 yard chip shot to beat the Pats by three points. The Commanders and Pats are, without a doubt, two of the absolute worst three or four teams in football. We saw what happened in Dallas the week before these two games.

We're not a tough out. We are 4-8, and each of our four wins were close games against terrible teams. We have generally gotten our asses kicked by good teams (Buffalo the lone exception). We're not remotely a "tough out."

Not sure if it's an elephant in the room, canary in a coal mine or figment of the imagination,  but if they win out, still draft a QB. 

Even if they win out, Jones will get a shot next year and will be pencilled in as the starter. 

As a fan base we've got to stop having knee jerk reactions. Honestly that can sum up a majority of our issues as a fan base the past year.

Knee jerk reaction to Jones beating a historically bad vikings secondary by a TD while ignoring the Eagles playoff game the following week.

Knee jerk reaction to one drive in the preseason against a horrible panthers team while ignoring us getting outclassed in daily practices vs the lions.

Knee jerk reaction to Tommy being slightly better than a bad Qb while ignoring us barely beating horrible teams with said Qb.

Quote from: Jclayton92 on December 03, 2023, 01:01:05 PMAs a fan base we've got to stop having knee jerk reactions. Honestly that can sum up a majority of our issues as a fan base the past year.

Knee jerk reaction to Jones beating a historically bad vikings secondary by a TD while ignoring the Eagles playoff game the following week.

Knee jerk reaction to one drive in the preseason against a horrible panthers team while ignoring us getting outclassed in daily practices vs the lions.

Knee jerk reaction to Tommy being slightly better than a bad Qb while ignoring us barely beating horrible teams with said Qb.

I would not say Washington or NE are terrible teams.   They have been in close games against very good teams.  Beaten a few.

I am judging Tommy off his arm talent, smarts, accuracy
Yes he lost to the Cowboys in Dallas but he was thrown into a mess there

He has since straightened the ship...lets see how the rest of the games go
so far so good

Quote from: BluesCruz on December 03, 2023, 01:27:24 PMI would not say Washington or NE are terrible teams.   They have been in close games against very good teams.  Beaten a few.

I am judging Tommy off his arm talent, smarts, accuracy
Yes he lost to the Cowboys in Dallas but he was thrown into a mess there

He has since straightened the ship...lets see how the rest of the games go
so far so good

The Patriots are 2-9 with a -100 points differential. They're currently slated to pick second in the draft. How many teams in the NFL would you say they're better than?

If 30% of us, so far, agree that the Tommy Chicken Cutlets can inspire a menu change at Giant games next year, then I'd say the young man has made his mark on society (in North Jersey, at the very least!).

Let's not kid ourselves with this thread. Is this subject REALLY in alignment with Schoen's strategic imperatives for the New York Giants to return to a perennial NFL contender?

I'll have a side of extra sauce and hot red 🌶,  please!

Peace!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L1gxPCoPAXI

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on December 03, 2023, 01:32:36 PMThe Patriots are 2-9 with a -100 points differential. They're currently slated to pick second in the draft. How many teams in the NFL would you say they're better than?

Well they did beat the Bills, We didnt
Patriots need a QB.  They are good team with a bad QB.  Mac Jones life of success from Alabama to today has hit a sinkhole this year.  He has a noodle for an arm.  Maybe he has an undisclosed injury. Commanders too- Sam whats his face is terrible 

Jones has also totally unraveled
Tommy DeVito is better in every respect but the rushing yds.  He has had great coaching coming to us "Ready to Wear"

I see DeVito as a coach on the field.  His football knowledge is astonishing as is his release and accuracy and confidence.  He has the tools to be a top 10 QB...  if we released Tommy right now he would get a ton of offers.....if we paid off Jones cap hit, and put Jones on the market there would be very scant interest.  If Jones were a golfer you would say he has the yips

Quote from: BluesCruz on December 03, 2023, 02:15:58 PMWell they did beat the Bills, We didnt
Patriots need a QB.  They are good team with a bad QB.  Mac Jones life of success from Alabama to today has hit a sinkhole this year.  He has a noodle for an arm.  Maybe he has an undisclosed injury. Commanders too- Sam whats his face is terrible 

Jones has also totally unraveled
Tommy DeVito is better in every respect but the rushing yds.  He has had great coaching coming to us "Ready to Wear"

I see DeVito as a coach on the field.  His football knowledge is astonishing as is his release and accuracy and confidence.  He has the tools to be a top 10 QB...  if we released Tommy right now he would get a ton of offers.....if we paid off Jones cap hit, and put Jones on the market there would be very scant interest.  If Jones were a golfer you would say he has the yips

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you were very high on Davis Webb as well, right? Weren't you talking about the Giants running with him long term? Do you view DeVito as even better than Webb?

Also, should we be giving DeVito somewhat of a pass for not putting more points on the board given the Giants' front office failed to follow through on your strong suggestion (you brought it up numerous times last spring/summer) that they bring in Usain Bolt to play wide receiver for us? If they had listened to you and done that, would we be putting up much bigger point totals this year and not be the single worst offense in the league in terms of points per game?

Usain Bolt.....yes, if he can track and catch a football, who could stay with him? And he is a big man- huge for a sprinter
Actually I seem to remember olt did get NFL interest but he's 37 yr old now

Webb played very well in his limited appearances.....who knows
We will never know about these two.  Only 32 people get to start at QB in the NFL.  That leaves 8 billion others.....maybe some are better but dont get the shot

One retired and the other persued a career in coaching....perhaps too soon

could Webb have played worse than "dump it off" Jones?  one wonders. inquiring minds want to know

Hey who though Bo Jackson could play baseball?  Some people have supernatural powers.

Yes DeVito is better than Webb.  DeVito is better than half the NFL starting QBs.  I wonder how Webb's coaching career is going

Quote from: BluesCruz on December 03, 2023, 03:22:34 PMUsain Bolt.....yes, if he can track and catch a football, who could stay with him? And he is a big man- huge for a sprinter

Webb played very well in his limited appearances.....who knows
We will never know about these two.  Only 32 people get to start at QB in the NFL.  That leaves 8 billion others.....maybe some are better but dont get the shot

One retired and the other persued a career in coaching....perhaps too soon

could Webb have played worse than "dump it off" Jones?  one wonders. inquiring minds want to know

Hey who though Bo Jackson could play baseball?  Some people have supernatural powers.

No Inquiring minds don't want to know because they already realize that Davis Webb can't play otherwise he'd be on a field somewhere playing.

Usain bolt has supernatural powers now?

Look man you can say whatever you want, that is your right, but if you calmed down on the absurd occasionally ie Brightwell is a better back than Barkley, Davis Webb, and Usain Bolt etc then it might be easier to have a logical conversation about how Tommy has looked decent and could be a really good #2 for us thus saving a ton of money on a potential backup when we draft a guy. We though can't even have that conversation because you now think a kid that still lives with his mom and barely beat 2 of the worst teams in football is going to lead us to the promise land. It's a great story, good for the kid, but the last thing yhe Giants need is ok QB play. We need someone elite, and while Devito has been fun, I haven't seen elite.

I'd bet the Jets wish they had Tommy DeVito today.

Quote from: Ed Vette on December 03, 2023, 04:01:56 PMI'd bet the Jets wish they had Tommy DeVito today.

Even Danny Jones would struggle behind that Jets offensive line.

Quote from: Ed Vette on December 03, 2023, 04:01:56 PMI'd bet the Jets wish they had Tommy DeVito today.

I was thinking an option for the Jets next year might be Tyrod Taylor. They need a reasonably solid veteran backup who can step in if Rodgers goes down, and I don't see Taylor returning for us under any circumstances. Since Taylor is now situated locally, he might take slightly less than the best offer elsewhere to play for them.

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on December 03, 2023, 04:33:23 PMI was thinking an option for the Jets next year might be Tyrod Taylor. They need a reasonably solid veteran backup who can step in if Rodgers goes down, and I don't see Taylor returning for us under any circumstances. Since Taylor is now situated locally, he might take slightly less than the best offer elsewhere to play for them.

I think the Jets make the playoffs and win a game if they had tyrod this year.

Quote from: Jclayton92 on December 03, 2023, 05:30:14 PMI think the Jets make the playoffs and win a game if they had tyrod this year.

I would agree. Their QB play has been beyond horrid. Neither Wilson nor Doyle are good enough to be NFL backups. The Jets have had practice squad level QB play all season and have still won some games (including beating the Eagles). They'd be a solid team with Tyrod and a serious contender with even the 9th or 10th best starter.

When a team is a real contender for a championship it's a mistake to not have a Tyrod Taylor type of backup.

Are the Giants opponents alternating between the Commanders and the Patriots the rest of the way?  No.  Ok, they will be lucky to win another game.

The Packers look awful tough. If Tommy and the Giants beat them, then we have to take him seriously.

Just don't understand the lack of love for Tommy D?
Four of our remaining six opponents are hovering around .500. If he's able to win a couple games, and play well in the losses, why overlook him?
Tommy D. is working with a sorely lacking OL, mediocre WR's, an inconsistent running game, and questionable Coaching.
Let him stand on his own merits.

Tommy for 2024 stater has pulled into the lead over new college QB

Quote from: Jaime on December 04, 2023, 12:44:13 AMJust don't understand the lack of love for Tommy D?
Four of our remaining six opponents are hovering around .500. If he's able to win a couple games, and play well in the losses, why overlook him?
Tommy D. is working with a sorely lacking OL, mediocre WR's, an inconsistent running game, and questionable Coaching.
Let him stand on his own merits.

So you'd rather them stick with Tommy over possibly drafting an elite Qb and still having Tommy on the roster?

In that most highly unlikely event, DeVito will be given every opportunity to prove that he and not DJ should be the starter in '024. Indeed, all he has to do is to play exceptionally well in the remaining 5 games for that to happen. De Vito is dirt cheap and Taylor is in a Void next year so Tommy should be around no matter what.

Even if the Jints are picking somewhere in the top-10, I seriously doubt that they will look QB in Round 1, and for now it's too soon to start WAGing.

Cheers!

None of the above. Have Jones and DeVitto compete for the starting QB, the other one will be the back up.

This is a hilarious thread. Something akin to Mad Magazine. Giant fans and their fantasies.

very unlikely Dimes is healthy enough to compete for starting job :no:

Quote from: GloryDays on December 04, 2023, 06:26:12 PMNone of the above. Have Jones and DeVitto compete for the starting QB, the other one will be the back up.

Jones is a bad Qb and Devito had a couple Decent games against the worst teams in football and horrible games against good teams.

Why would you want your franchise to continue to be one of the biggest failures in the NFL when we could change that overnight with the right QB?

I just can't see the logic in being ok with continuing to be a bad football team because heaven forbid we use an extra draft pick to make sure we get the guy we want.

At least take a chance on changing your fortune, because sticking with Jones or doing nothing is not acceptable at this point after the failure that this offense has been the past 4-5 years.

Quote from: Jclayton92 on December 04, 2023, 10:04:34 PMJones is a bad Qb and Devito had a couple Decent games against the worst teams in football and horrible games against good teams.

Why would you want your franchise to continue to be one of the biggest failures in the NFL when we could change that overnight with the right QB?

I just can't see the logic in being ok with continuing to be a bad football team because heaven forbid we use an extra draft pick to make sure we get the guy we want.

At least take a chance on changing your fortune, because sticking with Jones or doing nothing is not acceptable at this point after the failure that this offense has been the past 4-5 years.

We live in a Giant's bubble. Fan's close to the team (and sadly management and pundits) don't see the reality of the situation clearly or objectively. It is clouded by their  personal biases. If people (myself at times included because I am a fan) could step away and look at the team with a clear, objective eye, they would come away with a much different perspective. Last year really really blinded fans and management into thinking the team was better than they actually were. They won numerous close games against middling to bad teams. Good teams beat the up. The QB played efficiently in a conservative system. He didn't make mistakes, nor did he put up impressive passing yards and TD (the most important stat) numbers. And now, after a dreadful start, a third string QB has come in to win games against currently the two worst teams in the NFL now. And the team barely won those games, I might add. That is not to say the current Giant QB can't show he is more than capable of being an NFL starter. The next five games will tell...if he even is the QB going forward.

Jones was given an enormously long rope.  He suffers from an acute case of FOBI

(Fear of being Intercepted)

At least giving Tommy 6 games does not seem outrageous.   If he works miracles that will cause a revaluation of the entire pecking order

Quote from: katkavage on December 04, 2023, 07:03:41 PMThis is a hilarious thread. Something akin to Mad Magazine. Giant fans and their fantasies.

Careful there. Posts like this get censored and deleted by the mods like mine did.

13 guests voted.

Quote from: Ed Vette on December 05, 2023, 10:17:03 AM13 guests voted.

Yes Ed but unless Tommy D's family and friends are voting its apparent I'm not crazy or at least have company.  The people want Tommy to start next year if he gets us to the playoffs and I dont find that unreasonable considering the competition on the roster and in College.

Tommy throws a sweet ball and even Barkley is holding onto it.  I thought prior to Tommy that Barkley had hands of stone.  Now if even Paris Campbell can hold onto the ball its living proof Tommy's placement and timing are top notch.

That last TD pass to Barkley was world class and came within micro-seconds of being a pick six.

Tommy has "Cajonnes" no? 

PS- Im also and Ed, and we Ed's have to stick together.  Nice Vette BTW.  A friend of mine went to Syracuse.  He had a 1969 Vette with the big engine.... and I left a patch of rubber going at 70 MPH in that beast as we drove up to his school from Jersey.

Quote from: BluesCruz on December 05, 2023, 11:22:59 AMYes Ed but unless Tommy D's family and friends are voting its apparent I'm not crazy or at least have company.  The people want Tommy to start next year if he gets us to the playoffs and I dont find that unreasonable considering the competition on the roster and in College.

It's also possible that the people that chose Anoint Tommy the 2024 Starter and make GMs aware DannyJ is available for trade are more concerned about being rid of DJ and don't care about who starts next season.

I think the majority of folks have seen enough from DJ and are at the point where he's not the future of the franchise at QB.

I think the elephant in the room is Brian Daboll and Mike Kafka's offense.

There is no reason to give up right now. The plan should be run the table and get into the Playoffs. It's unbelievable but almost lost in the DeVito hoopla is the inept overall offense. I'm looking at this offense:

*Barkley's back.

*Andrew Thomas at LT.

*Schmitz at C.

*Phillips a little sturdier at RT.

*Hyatt and Wan'dale starting.

*Their choice of Taylor or DeVito at QB.

If these guys are good offensive coaches, this 10 ppg nonsense has to be over. Move the ball. Score points. There is no reason from a personnel standpoint we should be OK with ineffective. There's a lot of ball left to play and I want evidence of a smart operation.

The only logical argument against drafting a QB early this coming season is the probability that the Qb will bust as most teams that draft a QB early in the 1st and they fail and try again the probability is high that they will fail as well.

Jaguars Gabbert to Blake Bortles
Vikings Ponder to Bridgewater
Browns Weeden to Manziel
Cardinals Rosen to Murray
Jets Darnold to Wilson

The truth is that Franchise Qbs that are elite never hit the open market. They just don't because teams aren't dumb enough to let an elite Qb go.

So if you can't win without an elite Qb and the only way you can really get one is by drafting one then you have to take that chance. I mean look at Bill B, the guy largely considered the best coach ever, he drafted more Qbs than almost anyone from 2002-2019 while he had Brady. Because the position matters that much, that even though he had Tom he drafted 11 Qbs while Tom was still playing for him.

Quote from: BluesCruz on December 05, 2023, 11:22:59 AMPS- Im also and Ed, and we Ed's have to stick together.  Nice Vette BTW.  A friend of mine went to Syracuse.  He had a 1969 Vette with the big engine.... and I left a patch of rubber going at 70 MPH in that beast as we drove up to his school from Jersey.

If he had the L71-435 or the L68-400 with 460 lb-ft torque I can see a power shift from 2nd to third at that speed. The L-88 was rated at 435 HP but these cars were closer to 500+ HP in that era. The next year Chevy came out with the LS6 with 450 HP. I had a performance-built Mopar 383 that was Dyno tested at 535 HP at the rear wheels. I needed welded solid motor mounts and Traction bars so the drive shaft wouldn't pull out. The good old days. 

If DeVito "runs the table" he should be enshrined in the Pro Football Hall Of Fame immediately.

It would be the greatest achievement ever by any player in any league in any TEAM sport.

Not to mention... one of the most unlikely/impossible long-shots in the history of sports betting.

Bob

Quote from: Bob In PA on December 05, 2023, 01:05:21 PMIf DeVito "runs the table" he should be enshrined in the Pro Football Hall Of Fame immediately.

It would be the greatest achievement ever by any player in any league in any TEAM sport.

Not to mention... one of the most unlikely/impossible long-shots in the history of sports betting.

Bob

Couldn't happen to a nicer kid. I'm making Chicken Cutlets Monday Night in his honor. ;)

Quote from: TDToomer on December 05, 2023, 08:59:05 AMCareful there. Posts like this get censored and deleted by the mods like mine did.

You mean this wasn't humor? It wasn't satire? It was a serious post? Surely the moderator's here can see that the thread was made in jest. It just had to be.

Quote from: Ed Vette on December 05, 2023, 01:16:00 PMCouldn't happen to a nicer kid. I'm making Chicken Cutlets Monday Night in his honor. ;)

Don't forget to add the cheese!

If he runs the table and looks Brock Purdy good doing it against that gauntlet of teams, anoint him the 2024 starter and use the 2024 Draft to build around him.

Quote from: katkavage on December 05, 2023, 01:35:20 PMYou mean this wasn't humor? It wasn't satire? It was a serious post? Surely the moderator's here can see that the thread was made in jest. It just had to be.

The Op creator definitely took the thread seriously even if the majority did not lol.

Quote from: Jclayton92 on December 05, 2023, 05:34:32 PMThe Op creator definitely took the thread seriously even if the majority did not lol.

He got at least 33 fans to vote. It ain't just him.

Is this still an elephant in the room?

Tommy Twinkletoes

Tommy!

For his 4th career start, and in prime time, where people can disappear, he did everything expected for him.

I'd be interested to see just what he can do with a proper off season under his belt.

The game and the moment wasn't too big for him. He had the jitters early on but settled down and played a helluva game. Props to him and Robinson. They were clicking tonight.

It was wonderful to see the team get up and motivated to support their quarterback like they did tonight. The final drive was a memorable one I'll remember for a long time.

It's a joy to watch the Giants again!

Peace!

Great story and a lot of fun but still not enough. I will gladly enjoy it the rest of the season but until we have an elite Qb we won't be going anywhere. Yes 9-8, 8-9 consistently is fun especially after barely winning 4 for the last half decade but we want to win super bowls and you don't win super bowls without elite qb play.

So yes 100% on board for the winning, the story etc the rest of the season but the reality is we need a cosmic shift at the Qb position that no one currently on it can provide unless something drastically changes.

Quote from: EDjohnst1981 on December 11, 2023, 11:29:13 PMFor his 4th career start, and in prime time, where people can disappear, he did everything expected for him.

I'd be interested to see just what he can do with a proper off season under his belt.

~160 yards passing is "everything expected for him."?  I mean, I know the standard around here has dropped, but let's be serious.

Quote from: coggs on December 11, 2023, 11:49:39 PM~160 yards passing is "everything expected for him."?  I mean, I know the standard around here has dropped, but let's be serious.

And 70 rushing yards

The game wasn't elite or great ... but he had a good game

Quote from: killarich on December 11, 2023, 11:56:15 PMAnd 70 rushing yards

The game wasn't elite or great ... but he had a good game

A good 5th start. Let's wrap our heads around that. We don't know how high his ceiling is but all the BS claims that he's not good and has a noodle arm shouldn't be so quick to judge. He's improved every game. He leads the team to a game winning drive and he didn't flinch or break a sweat. Three wins in a row.

Serious question.  Putting Devito aside for a second, does anyone want DJ to return as our starting QB?

Quote from: kingm56 on December 12, 2023, 12:44:11 AMSerious question.  Putting Devito aside for a second, does anyone want DJ to return as our starting QB?

How can you put DeVito aside?  Because he is here and is playing at least as well if not better than DJ with much more room to grow, no I dont want DJ as starter.  This kid has guts and has been smart with the football.

Quote from: Philosophers on December 12, 2023, 12:51:37 AMHow can you put DeVito aside?  Because he is here and is playing at least as well if not better than DJ with much more room to grow, no I dont want DJ as starter.  This kid has guts and has been smart with the football.

I'm trying to decipher if this thread is more about DJ than Devito.  To be clear, you would start the latter over the former?

Quote from: kingm56 on December 12, 2023, 12:58:39 AMI'm trying to decipher if this thread is more about DJ than Devito.  To be clear, you would start the latter over the former?

With each win it becomes more and more likely that next year that will be the choices: Jones or Devito. And if those are the only two options available to me I'm picking Devito.

Quote from: Ed Vette on December 12, 2023, 12:07:07 AMA good 5th start. Let's wrap our heads around that. We don't know how high his ceiling is but all the BS claims that he's not good and has a noodle arm shouldn't be so quick to judge. He's improved every game. He leads the team to a game winning drive and he didn't flinch or break a sweat. Three wins in a row.

I agree 100% ... the kid was in his parents house playing call of duty and being called down to dinner when the cutlets were finished not too long ago

The kid is winning and flinging it down the field ...... idk how any of us can say if he's good or bad just yet

But one thing we do know is we are on a 3 game win streak with him at qb

Quote from: coggs on December 11, 2023, 11:49:39 PM~160 yards passing is "everything expected for him."?  I mean, I know the standard around here has dropped, but let's be serious.

Yes, they have.

It's also a figure Jones eclipsed only twice this year.

There is no way Schoen can avoid a QB controversy unless Jones takes a very long time to recover. He and whoever sanctioned the money for Jones put themselves in this spot.

Quote from: katkavage on December 12, 2023, 05:49:16 AMThere is no way Schoen can avoid a QB controversy unless Jones takes a very long time to recover. He and whoever sanctioned the money for Jones put themselves in this spot.

Sanctioned by Mara..Schoen didn't have another avenue to pursue.

Quote from: coggs on December 11, 2023, 11:49:39 PM~160 yards passing is "everything expected for him."?  I mean, I know the standard around here has dropped, but let's be serious.

I agree it's a low standard and we shouldn't get too over our skis about a solid but not great performance. I have seen too many times where people have done this with an ok but far from great game with Jones, so I'm not going to start doing it now. As a fanbase we do have a tendency to get emotional and overrate our own players, and I think we need to keep that in perspective.

Still, there were some things to like about last night specifically, apart from the obvious mere fact that they won as a 6.5 point underdog against a red hot team that many saw as a surging, dangerous dark horse in the NFC.

What I liked about DeVito's performance last night though were two things:

(1) No mistakes. 17 for 21, no turnovers. He also showed very good rush awareness and escapability (zero sacks).

(2) He dialed it up late in the game when he was needed the most. The TD passing play to Hodgins was electric. The two separate throws to Wan'Dale (the flea flicker and then the late sideline throw) were good too. I thought we saw the best of him late in the game when everything was on the line.


The bottom line is DeVito is bringing bona fide fun and a little bit of magic to an otherwise dark, dismal season. We have had infighting with coaches, players not getting along, fan outrage, tons of injuries, blowout losses, you name it. It's been brutal. I don't think we're looking at the next great QB or anything, but fans are having a good time with it, and the team has won three in row. That's all I know.

It's also the holiday season. I'm not going to snarl and repeatedly scream "Bah Humbug!" like Ebenezer Scrooge when everyone else is having a great time with this. I'm going to enjoy it myself too for as long as it lasts.

Quote from: spiderblue43 on December 12, 2023, 06:51:35 AMSanctioned by Mara..Schoen didn't have another avenue to pursue.

I think they'll deliberately slow-play it with Jones. Even if he is healthy enough to go in week one, they'll claim they don't want to risk re-injury and want to ease him back, etc. I think DeVito will start week one. Even if he doesn't play great the final three games of 2023, I have a feeling that's set in stone now. And that will apply too if they draft a QB (which now that they're barely top 10 is starting to feel less likely).

Mara may have a man-crush on Jones, but he is also influenced by overwhelming fan majority opinions. He had a man-crush on Jason Garrett too, and he still allowed Judge to fire Garrett in-season because the cacophony of fan outrage and media people calling for his head became too much for him to endure. He also panicked when the fans got upset about the Eli benching (even though he clearly approved it) and in-season fired his coach and GM.

At this point, let's be honest: pretty much no fan (other than now infinitesimal group of unflappable Jones apologists) wants Jones to start next year over this guy. Or anyone for that matter. Jones is associated with pain and losing - this guy is associated with fun and, for the moment at least, winning. They'll start him until such a time that he starts playing poorly AND the team is losing. I think he has a lock on at least the first three weeks of next season, no matter what else is going on at the QB position on the team.

Devito made some really nice throws when he had to (the TD pass to Hodgins for example).  158 yards passing certainly isn't anything special.  A 81.7 QBR is a solid number though.

Stats or not, it's a fun run and more than I was expecting.  Things usually get more difficult as teams get more tape on a QB, so we'll see how it goes for the last 4 games. 

When you rush for 200+ yards and get 3 takeaways, you don't need gaudy passing stats to win.  They aren't going to do that every week, but even in a passing league, it's a winning formula.

Yes, Tommy's sample size is small. And truthfully, much too small to seriously evaluate him as a future starting QB in the NFL. But what we can do is compare the sample to what we've seen in five plus years with Jones. And the comparison is not good for Jones. If DeVito falls on his face the next five games will he be given the excuses of "bad offensive line, mediocre receivers, terrible play calling and coaching," that Jones has had throughout his career? Even in the very small sample of Tyrod Taylor, you saw the team react and play better with him at QB. QB play elevates or sinks a football team. Jones play has never elevated the team. Last year he was efficient and mostly mistake free combined with a strong running game. That combined with a strong defense was enough to win many close games and get them the record they had. I give Jones credit for playing well within a system but nothing more. So the Giants are hobbled now with decisions because of a bad contract. They went the safe route in the off season and now they have to deal with that.
 

Quote from: katkavage on December 12, 2023, 07:21:12 AMYes, Tommy's sample size is small. And truthfully, much too small to seriously evaluate him as a future starting QB in the NFL. But what we can do is compare the sample to what we've seen in five plus years with Jones. And the comparison is not good for Jones. If DeVito falls on his face the next five games will he be given the excuses of "bad offensive line, mediocre receivers, terrible play calling and coaching," that Jones has had throughout his career? Even in the very small sample of Tyrod Taylor, you saw the team react and play better with him at QB. QB play elevates or sinks a football team. Jones play has never elevated the team. Last year he was efficient and mostly mistake free combined with a strong running game. That combined with a strong defense was enough to win many close games and get them the record they had. I give Jones credit for playing well within a system but nothing more. So the Giants are hobbled now with decisions because of a bad contract. They went the safe route in the off season and now they have to deal with that.
 

I think the damage is already done for Jones, myself. First off he has proven beyond any doubt that he can't physically handle the rigors of NFL play. He has had numerous injuries, missing multiple games in all five of his seasons except one, and his injuries have been pretty serious. Two neck injuries and an ACL already, plus multiple others? Even if you're in the camp that he's this really good QB that has been held back by the play of everyone else besides him, you can't spin your way out of the reality that the guy simply can't be counted on to stay reasonably healthy.

Secondly, Jones was brutal this year on the field when he did play. Simply brutal. With the exception of two quarters against an awful Arizona team playing without Buddha Baker, he was downright dreadful. People who are believers in him blamed everyone from the line, Kafka, receivers, Daboll, the defense, whatever they could. All of that kind of fell on its face when he got outperformed by both Tyrod Taylor and now an undrafted walk-on rookie, playing with the same conditions (worse if you consider the loss of Waller).

No matter what, even if DeVito falters in the last four games, I think the damage is done on Jones for all of the above reasons. His days as a Giant are numbered unless he suddenly plays out of his mind next season. And, as stated in another thread, I have a really hard time seeing him start the season, even if he is healthy.

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on December 12, 2023, 06:56:24 AMI agree it's a low standard and we shouldn't get too over our skis about a solid but not great performance. I have seen too many times where people have done this with an ok but far from great game with Jones, so I'm not going to start doing it now. As a fanbase we do have a tendency to get emotional and overrate our own players, and I think we need to keep that in perspective.

Still, there were some things to like about last night specifically, apart from the obvious mere fact that they won as a 6.5 point underdog against a red hot team that many saw as a surging, dangerous dark horse in the NFC.

What I liked about DeVito's performance last night though were two things:

(1) No mistakes. 17 for 21, no turnovers. He also showed very good rush awareness and escapability (zero sacks).

(2) He dialed it up late in the game when he was needed the most. The TD passing play to Hodgins was electric. The two separate throws to Wan'Dale (the flea flicker and then the late sideline throw) were good too. I thought we saw the best of him late in the game when everything was on the line.


The bottom line is DeVito is bringing bona fide fun and a little bit of magic to an otherwise dark, dismal season. We have had infighting with coaches, players not getting along, fan outrage, tons of injuries, blowout losses, you name it. It's been brutal. I don't think we're looking at the next great QB or anything, but fans are having a good time with it, and the team has won three in row. That's all I know.

It's also the holiday season. I'm not going to snarl and repeatedly scream "Bah Humbug!" like Ebenezer Scrooge when everyone else is having a great time with this. I'm going to enjoy it myself too for as long as it lasts.

You win the post of the day, and your subsequent contributions aren't far off.

Save some for the Rangers tonight, OK?

I enjoy reading your contributions, very much. Keep up the fantastic work.

Peace!

Quote from: uconnjack8 on December 12, 2023, 07:14:05 AMDevito made some really nice throws when he had to (the TD pass to Hodgins for example).  158 yards passing certainly isn't anything special.  A 81.7 QBR is a solid number though.

Stats or not, it's a fun run and more than I was expecting.  Things usually get more difficult as teams get more tape on a QB, so we'll see how it goes for the last 4 games. 

When you rush for 200+ yards and get 3 takeaways, you don't need gaudy passing stats to win.  They aren't going to do that every week, but even in a passing league, it's a winning formula.

The good thing is, what's there to see on tape for DeVito? He's not doing anything defensive coordinators haven't seen before. This is what he is right now.

Despite his current three-game winning streak, I think these last four games still carry a lot of weight. Not so much in terms of win/lose but in how Tommy Touchdown plays in them.

I don't think Jones will be ready for the season opener nor do I think they will push him to be ready. A lot of that depends on whether Schoen drafts a QB in April or not. I think Tyrod is gone and if no QB is drafted, they will definitely bring in a veteran to compete with TD Tommy.

If Tommy clearly outperforms the new rookie/veteran next preseason, he'll get the start. I firmly believe that Jones' season debut hinges 100% on how TD Tommy does. If they are winning, Jones sits until. And I highly doubt the fan base will be calling for Jones if the Giants are winning with Tommy.

Quote from: kingm56 on December 12, 2023, 12:44:11 AMSerious question.  Putting Devito aside for a second, does anyone want DJ to return as our starting QB?

The season isn't over yet. At this point I think I need to see how his rehab goes. If healthy to start day one, then yes. It's his job to be taken away.

Quote from: Ed Vette on December 12, 2023, 08:42:24 AMThe season isn't over yet. At this point I think I need to see how his rehab goes. If healthy to start day one, then yes. It's his job to be taken away.

Heaven spare us!  Here Ye Here Ye  Bring back the Dumpoff King

One thing that I felt last night was that the game seems to be slowing down a little for Devito.  He seemed more patient in the pocket and not looking to throw the ball away the second something didn't look right. 

That doesn't mean he'll be a stud in an offseason, or whatever other hyperbole people want to throw around

Quote from: kartanoman on December 12, 2023, 08:00:48 AMYou win the post of the day, and your subsequent contributions aren't far off.

Save some for the Rangers tonight, OK?

I enjoy reading your contributions, very much. Keep up the fantastic work.

Peace!

Thank you very much Kart. Kind of you to say, and the feeling is mutual.

Quote from: Ed Vette on December 12, 2023, 08:42:24 AMThe season isn't over yet. At this point I think I need to see how his rehab goes. If healthy to start day one, then yes. It's his job to be taken away.

Thats fair; I was curious if Tommy fails to keep up this pace, would fans feel comfortable reverting back to DJ?  Regardless, I get your point...there's still a lot of time, and much to consider.   

I think what the Giants don't want is to start the season off with fans having a short fuse and on the edge of their seats ready to boo the starting QB and call for a QB change the second an interception or a couple of three and outs happen. And then for obvious health-related reasons I doubt they want to have Jones on some Aaron Rodgers style rush rehab plan because they feel they absolutely have to have him ready for week one. So unless DeVito is suddenly Mike Glennon level bad these last four games, I think the odds are pretty good that he starts week one. And I'd probably still feel that way even if we drafted a rookie QB.

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on December 12, 2023, 06:56:24 AMI agree it's a low standard and we shouldn't get too over our skis about a solid but not great performance. I have seen too many times where people have done this with an ok but far from great game with Jones, so I'm not going to start doing it now. As a fanbase we do have a tendency to get emotional and overrate our own players, and I think we need to keep that in perspective.

Still, there were some things to like about last night specifically, apart from the obvious mere fact that they won as a 6.5 point underdog against a red hot team that many saw as a surging, dangerous dark horse in the NFC.

What I liked about DeVito's performance last night though were two things:

(1) No mistakes. 17 for 21, no turnovers. He also showed very good rush awareness and escapability (zero sacks).

(2) He dialed it up late in the game when he was needed the most. The TD passing play to Hodgins was electric. The two separate throws to Wan'Dale (the flea flicker and then the late sideline throw) were good too. I thought we saw the best of him late in the game when everything was on the line.


The bottom line is DeVito is bringing bona fide fun and a little bit of magic to an otherwise dark, dismal season. We have had infighting with coaches, players not getting along, fan outrage, tons of injuries, blowout losses, you name it. It's been brutal. I don't think we're looking at the next great QB or anything, but fans are having a good time with it, and the team has won three in row. That's all I know.

It's also the holiday season. I'm not going to snarl and repeatedly scream "Bah Humbug!" like Ebenezer Scrooge when everyone else is having a great time with this. I'm going to enjoy it myself too for as long as it lasts.

If Bullock misses the kick, does that change DeVito's performance?  If Robinson fumbles at the end of the play that put them in FG range, does that change DeVito's performance?  The idea that he "led them to victory" is non-sense.  Barkley doesn't fumble, does that change DeVito's performance? 

Quote from: killarich on December 11, 2023, 11:56:15 PMAnd 70 rushing yards

The game wasn't elite or great ... but he had a good game

He wasn't even good.  How many easy passes did he badly miss?

Promote the scout that recommended him to the head of scouting/ player personnel.

I will be very very happy for my team!

Quote from: GloryDays on December 13, 2023, 10:23:07 PMPromote the scout that recommended him to the head of scouting/ player personnel.

Tommy was #8 in the Heisman race in 2018. Had a teriffic last year at Illinois. He did not appear out of nowhere

I dont know why no one drafted him but hey- good thing for us

I know that we have a tendency to be fickle and rash. That's probably true of most team's fans, and quite understandable with Giants fans given our too frequent, long struggles with competitiveness.

Tommy DeVito is an easy to root for kind of guy, but let's not get carried away and burden him with our "over our skis" expectations. Despite the attention he's getting from the media, not so much for his modest accomplishment as for it's "human interest" element in what has been a less than exciting NFL season so far, it is not only lead pipe unlikely that he will "run the table" but even money that should Our Heroes not beat the Saints on Sunday, we will stop overreaching and return to our more usual short-arming.

But make no mistake, should they win, you will hear me yelling, "Way to go! Another round of chicken cutlets, please." It will then be up to the Eagles to put an end to our "playoffs repeat" fantasy, and so let us start our "Way too Early" Silly Season WAGing that much earlier.

Cheers!

Quote from: coggs on December 13, 2023, 09:16:13 PMIf Bullock misses the kick, does that change DeVito's performance?  If Robinson fumbles at the end of the play that put them in FG range, does that change DeVito's performance?  The idea that he "led them to victory" is non-sense.  Barkley doesn't fumble, does that change DeVito's performance? 

Agreed. We fans attribute winning and losing to QBs way more than we should. Especially when it's a small sample (in this case extremely small).

Did DeVito play better against the Pats because they won 10-7 than Josh Allen did in the 2021 AFC championship game in KC, where he threw for 329 yards and four TDs (and ran for 68 yards) with no turnovers and his team lost 42-36 bc the D couldn't get a stop with 13 seconds left on the clock?

If the GIANTS run the table, this is great news for the development and maturity of many of the younger players and will do wonders for the culture moving into 2024.

If Tommy the D has a major impact on the run, it gives him a strong shot to make the 2024 roster competing for #2 QB.


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Quote from: andrew_nyGiants on December 14, 2023, 01:07:43 PMIf the GIANTS run the table, this is great news for the development and maturity of many of the younger players and will do wonders for the culture moving into 2024.

If Tommy the D has a major impact on the run, it gives him a strong shot to make the 2024 roster competing for #2 QB.

LOL Sure. He just might have a shot at Back Up......you never know


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I think one thing that has not been mentioned, or I haven't seen mentioned, is the fact that this regime scouted and brought in Tommy. They gave Danny an opportunity to earn a contract through his play. He did enough to do that. I wonder if there could be some buyer's remorse and possibly catering to Mara in signing Jones.

Seeing how Tommy Touchdown is playing, they may be more inclined to use that to tell Mara to accept the fact that Jones is not the future at QB for the Giants.

Quote from: BluesCruz on December 14, 2023, 09:12:31 AMTommy was #8 in the Heisman race in 2018. Had a teriffic last year at Illinois. He did not appear out of nowhere

I dont know why no one drafted him but hey- good thing for us

Yeah, none of this is true.  In 2018 DeVito started 4 games as a freshman at SU. He was not 8th in Heisman voting.  In 2019 he had 19 TDs and 5 INTs over 12 games.  SU was 5-7.  That was his best year.  And its pedestrian for college football in today's game. Again, not 8th in Heisman voting. In his Junior year SU went 1-10 and Devito was injured and mostly ineffective.  His senior year was more of same as Garret Scrader got most of the playing time to, I believe, an injury to Devito but not sure.  Again, SU was 5-7  Then at Illinois he averaged less than 200 yards passing per game with 15 TDs and 4 INTs over 13 games. That's 1 TD per game.  Illinois went 8-5.  Their best win was a 9-6 thriller against Iowa where Devito was benched.  Those are not "terrific" season stats.

Look, he is exceeding expectations now no doubt.  But he was not stellar in college and got overlooked.  He was average to slightly more than average in college.  None of his teams were especially good except maybe Illinois and even they weren't more than slightly above average.

If you want to extol DeVito's virtues you are more than allowed.  But to just make up your own facts ain't gonna fly.

**By the way, I know we have some SU fans on here (I am Notre Dame fan and Tulane grad so follow them too) so if I misstated or am mistaken about anything I wrote regarding SU football I apologize and please correct me!

While we are on the subject of Tommy DeVito, and/or fickle and rash, I couldn't help but chuckle as I watched Aidan O'Connell- as Irish a name as exists- and the Raiders 4th Round backup to Garappolo throw 5 TD passes, 4 in the 1H alone while wondering if that wouldn't earn him the nickname, "Corned Beef" O'Donnell, if you catch my drift.  ;)

Cheers!