Here’s why Daniel Jones is better than Jets’ Aaron Rodgers

[True Blue]

So here is a question

When Jones doesn't put up the numbers and perform at a high level, its because he lacks support according to some

GBs receivers werent any better than ours, but when Rodgers has a down year from it, he is on the decline? That down year produced 5 more TDs than Jones btw. Why aren't his numbers blamed on a lack of support?

[MightyGiants]

So here is a question

When Jones doesn't put up the numbers and perform at a high level, its because he lacks support according to some

GBs receivers werent any better than ours, but when Rodgers has a down year from it, he is on the decline? That down year produced 5 more TDs than Jones btw. Why aren't his numbers blamed on a lack of support?

What makes you think Jones won't perform at a high level and put up "numbers"?

[kartanoman]

@kartanoman

The one thing that strikes me about Rodgers is despite all his individual accolades; he has only one SB victory and appearance despite starting in the league for 15 seasons.

You are most correct, Rich @MightyGiants . But when you look at the number of conference championships he's played in, and dig further to see the miracles he pulled off just to get the Packers into that game, speaks loud measures for me. Those count for something as well.

Peace!

[True Blue]

What makes you think Jones won't perform at a high level and put up "numbers"?

I'm talking past, not future performance.

No reason he shouldn't or can't earn plenty of incentives.

[bighitterdalama]

You are most correct, Rich @MightyGiants . But when you look at the number of conference championships he's played in, and dig further to see the miracles he pulled off just to get the Packers into that game, speaks loud measures for me. Those count for something as well.

Peace!

Chris, a case can be made that Aaron Rodgers is this generation's Dan Marino.

[AZGiantFan]

So here is a question

When Jones doesn't put up the numbers and perform at a high level, its because he lacks support according to some

GBs receivers werent any better than ours, but when Rodgers has a down year from it, he is on the decline? That down year produced 5 more TDs than Jones btw. Why aren't his numbers blamed on a lack of support?

As @MightyGiants pointed out upthread, Jones and Rodgers may have had roughly comparable receivers, but Rodgers had top 3 pass blocking while Jones had bottom third pass blocking.  Don't you think that could have an effect on their respective production levels?

I don't understand why perfectly rational and reasonable explanations get labelled "excuses".  It has happened to Jones his entire career.

I can't think of a single QB who had bad pass blocking AND bad receivers who put up big numbers.  Maybe there was someone who did but I can't think of any and I'm skeptical that anyone else can either.

[Fletch]

It isn't just Aaron Rodgers who felt like that. Carson Wentz was ready to ask for a trade when they drafted Hurts with a 2nd round pick. I guess I don't blame them. It's like "what the heck am I doing here? Am I here to win a championship of bide time and groom the next QB?"

That could be a pick you can use on a WR or something like that. If you are ready to turn the page then you should probably say so upfront.

I didn't even read the article since life is too short but, comparing a first ballot HOF all time great of the game to someone who doesn't even register as a top 10 NFC QB ; seems a little petty to me and wreaks of jealousy about being second fiddle to the Jets after 30 years of being in the limelight. I guess we have the Mara's to blame. That seems like one heck of coincidence that since one of them got promoted to VP of personnel it has been all down hill from there. Some people want to put their head in the sand and pretend like Daniel Jones -- a 4 year vet -- can just wake up one morning and not be Daneil Jones .

[kartanoman]

Chris, a case can be made that Aaron Rodgers is this generation's Dan Marino.

I like that comparison, actually. Exception being Aaron got his ring early where as Dan did not. But everything else falls in line fairly straight so good comparison!

Peace!

[kingm56]

You guys realize the topic could read here's what Andrew Dalton is easily better than Daniel Jones?  That alone should make said article inert and/or pointless. 

[Fletch]

As @MightyGiants pointed out upthread, Jones and Rodgers may have had roughly comparable receivers, but Rodgers had top 3 pass blocking while Jones had bottom third pass blocking.  Don't you think that could have an effect on their respective production levels?

I don't understand why perfectly rational and reasonable explanations get labelled "excuses".  It has happened to Jones his entire career.

I can't think of a single QB who had bad pass blocking AND bad receivers who put up big numbers.  Maybe there was someone who did but I can't think of any and I'm skeptical that anyone else can either.

They're called excuses because that is exactly what they are. The fact is you cannot just look up a dubious PFF statistic and say "well they say that x is ranked 27th and Y is ranked 3rd -- so that is the end of it."

Not to mention some of the personal stuff like "diva" etc. and other personal stuff are all I need to know about those posting about great Daniel Jones is. He is gereat at being what some here want their QB to look like and act like.

There are a lot of complications to this argument of surrounding cast anyway. The fact is even bad lines play well sometimes; like the NY Giants line did in the TB Buccaneers game 2 season ago. And the fact is that Aaron Rodgers looked pretty good still when like 2 of his starting linemen were out in the Thurs. I night game vs a pretty good Cardinals team in 2021. Aaron Rodgers pretty much looks like Aaron Rodgers does if his lineman are out if his roster sucks that year etc. and Daniel Jones looks like Daniel Jones does like in the Buccaneers game throwing bad interceptions and being a low output QB even with the line punching above its weight and kicking ass up front.

You guys realize the topic could read here's what Andrew Dalton is easily better than Daniel Jones?  That alone should make said article inert and/or pointless.

Andy Dalton is a better QB than Daniel Jones so not sure what your point is.

[MightyGiants]

As @MightyGiants pointed out upthread, Jones and Rodgers may have had roughly comparable receivers, but Rodgers had top 3 pass blocking while Jones had bottom third pass blocking.  Don't you think that could have an effect on their respective production levels?

I don't understand why perfectly rational and reasonable explanations get labelled "excuses".  It has happened to Jones his entire career.

I can't think of a single QB who had bad pass blocking AND bad receivers who put up big numbers.  Maybe there was someone who did but I can't think of any and I'm skeptical that anyone else can either.

Here is an article on the difference between a reason and an excuse.

What Does Reason Mean?

According to the Oxford English Dictionary, a reason refers to a cause or an explanation. When giving a reason the person tries to explain why he/she did or did not do something. It can also be used when speaking of situations as well. A reason is usually logical, rational and objective. It is not given with the intention of saving one's self but to explain a situation.

What Does Excuse Mean?

An excuse refers to an explanation put forward to justify or defend a fault. When giving an excuse, the individual makes an attempt to put the blame on another person or on circumstances rather than being accountable for his own actions. This is usually considered as a negative practice. Most excuses tend to be illogical, and irrational arguments put forward by a person to get away from a problem.

https://www.differencebetween.com/difference-between-reason-and-vs-excuse/

Of course, the problem for the people who like to use the term "excuse" is if they use the correct and honest word "reason" their favorite phrase becomes "no more reasons" and sounds pretty silly   

[Fletch]

@ Mighty

Why don't you respect Aaron Rodgers as a man? WHich is a pretty heavy charge ...

And am I to believe that isn't clouding your "logic" on QB evaluation?

[MightyGiants]

@ Mighty

Why don't you respect Aaron Rodgers as a man? WHich is a pretty heavy charge ...

And am I to believe that isn't clouding your "logic" on QB evaluation?

As to why I feel the way I do about Rodgers, just know I spent most of my adult life helping and protecting people.  You can read this article and it's not hard to figure out which ones I find offensive

https://deadspin.com/weirdest-things-aaron-rodgers-has-ever-done-nfl-packers-1850095117

As for "clouding," I can understand, based on your posts, why you would ask that question.   However, in my case it doesn't "cloud" by evaluation.   With your evaluations, you start with the QB and then build your case.  The problem with this approach is that one tends to already have their conclusion and just look for information that confirms their conclusion.

I work the opposite of that. I start with examining and deciding what measures or factors are important for a given evaluation.   In the case of QB evaluations, I have come to the conclusion that their are three factors that impact a QB's performance:

coaching/scheme
receiving options
protection

So when I compare QBs (I don't feel strongly about my QB comparisons because I appreciate the limitations so many variables create for any conclusion), I try to factor in how the QB performs compared to the support the QB received.   I find PFF useful for this particular measure because they grade pass protection (many other sources tend to just grade O-lines and don't break down their pass protection and run blocking).

I also needed to consider measures to use when comparing QB performances.   I tend to stay away from raw statistics (that fail to factor in per game).  I do favor measuring that aggregate stats.   So the three measures when I want to do down-and-dirty comparisons that I tend to favor is QB rating, QBR, and PFF grade (usually with a 20% or so filter).   I have toyed with the idea of adding SIS measures, but I haven't pulled the trigger.

Since I do all that work FIRST and independent of any QBs, I eliminate bias or clouded judgment.   Now I subject each QB to the criteria I previously developed and the fall where they may fall.  It matters not how I feel about them personally or how I feel about their on-field performances.

[Fletch]

As to why I feel the way I do about Rodgers, just know I spent most of my adult life helping and protecting people.  You can read this article and it's not hard to figure out which ones I find offensive

https://deadspin.com/weirdest-things-aaron-rodgers-has-ever-done-nfl-packers-1850095117

Looks like click bait. Can't you just tell me.

The funny thing is Aside from a few design runs ; the scheme looks nearly identical when coach Garrett took over. It has been 3 OCs / 2 HCs later and while everyone was waiting for Daniel Jones to be used more like Shurmur minus all the turnovers -- it just never happened. The difference is that Garrett had a barkley that looked like a bottom tier RB and Daboll has an all pro on the roster.

This is what Aaron Rodgers looks like with starters out and bad pass prtection
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWeNmTB99FE

This is what Daniel Jones looks like with starters/ o lineman dominating upfront: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VlC1Xb_elt4

That is why you can overthink things ; present PFF "evidence" like it is a court of law but -- the tape is right there negating all of these so-called reasons.