Wink and the Giants bigger picture

[Jclayton92]

I thought of one more piece of the puzzle.   Patrick Graham stuck around after Joe Judge was fired.   Then Daboll was hired, and Daboll said he would like to keep Graham, but Graham opted to leave the Giants and work the same job with the Raiders.  Graham and Daboll had worked together previously

Graham leaving for LV had absolutely zero to do with Daboll. Graham left because he was apart of the organization under the last two head coaches and Mara promised Judge and Macadoo they'd be patient and fired them both after two years which rubbed him the wrong way as did the Brian Flores lawsuit. Those are the reasons he left, he didn't trust Mara.

[BluesCruz]

I would guess a lot of the season stats are heavily weighted down by the 1-2-3 punt offense under Danny not so Dimes

It was clearly apparent to anyone that the D accelerated to top ten on the back nine

Finally in the last 3 games the Offense took off

Fire Daboll- Hire Vrabel and away we go.  maybe Wink will come back for Vrabel

[MightyGiants]

Graham leaving for LV had absolutely zero to do with Daboll. Graham left because he was apart of the organization under the last two head coaches and Mara promised Judge and Macadoo they'd be patient and fired them both after two years which rubbed him the wrong way as did the Brian Flores lawsuit. Those are the reasons he left, he didn't trust Mara.

That's another interpretation.  I had forgotten Graham had been here back with McAdoo as the D-line coach (if I remember correctly) and I thought highly of him when he was here under McAdoo.

Although, he did come back for the second go-round (with Judge) so clearly he wasn't soured on Mara after his stint with McAdoo

[Painter]

None of the "if this, then that" conjecturing has any more value that simply acknowledging our ignorance as challenging at that may be. What is the point in speculating about an issue in which we have no role to play in its resolution?

Are we concerned about how we may be impacted by whatever decision is reached by the parties involved? Is this not a situation in which cause far outweighs effect? Certainly, that's where my concern is centered.

Cheers!

[AZGiantFan]

The whole ship has to be pointed in one direction all working well together as a unit.

That said, you can't have egos but you can't have imbalances such as decent D and horrible O as that stresses the other side and leads to tension.  Imagine a DC working his a$$ off to squeeze  everything he can out of an average D to make them above average however the O struggles to score 10 points and turns the ball over regularly.  Now the DC will realize it will eventually worsen his unit and make him look less effective and this tension will begin.

That's why this whole "a great QB overcomes everything theory" is horse$hit.  It's an important but only one piece of a very complicated piece of equipment.

Giants were tied for 6th in the league in fewest giveaways, so the "and turns the ball over regularly" narrative doesn't fly. 

There is nothing the offense did that made the defense give up 4.7 YPC on the ground, 2nd worse in the league.  The offense didn't make the defense give up the 4th most rushing yards per game. 

IMO, blaming the offense for the putrid performance of the defense is a non-starter.  And time of possession can't be blamed because the Giants were at 29:26, which is nowhere near horrendous.  And since giving up rushing yardage uses up more clock than passing plays one could argue that the slight TOP deficit was more due to the defense than the offense.

[AZGiantFan]

As I said (reference the part in bold), over the last two seasons, I haven't heard a single negative comment directed at Wilkins by pundits, media, or fans.  Seems like rewriting history to suggest Wilkins was doing such a terrible job he needed to be fired without so much as consulting with his immediate boss.

When we were talking about the Giants poor rushing defense in spite of having a pretty strong interior line and a tackling machine in Okereke it was suggested by someone, can't remember who, that the problem was with weak play by the OLBs.  Perhaps Wilkins taking on so much of the DC's responsibilities as Wink's right hand man led to less effective coaching of his position group?

[Rosehill Jimmy]

When we were talking about the Giants poor rushing defense in spite of having a pretty strong interior line and a tackling machine in Okereke it was suggested by someone, can't remember who, that the problem was with weak play by the OLBs.  Perhaps Wilkins taking on so much of the DC's responsibilities as Wink's right hand man led to less effective coaching of his position group?

I agree.  Many folks expressed frustration with play of OLBs Thibs dropping  into pass coverage was often a bone of contention

[AZGiantFan]

There are other stats like 11.5.  That was the number of sacks that KT had that had him tied for 12th most in the league.


When you are looking at pressure win rate, you need to factor in a few things:

How often did the defense get to play with a big lead?  Big leads allow defenses to pin their ears back and focus on just rushing the passer, as opposed to also having to worry about the run.

How often did they get to rush in situations where the QB was forced to hold on the the ball longer (like 3rd and long?  This can be impacted by non-rush issues like stopping the run and minimizing YAC.

What does it profit you if Thibidoux gets 11.5 sacks but the team is 28th in the league in sacks?  Someone once said you earn the right to rush the passer by stopping the run, which the Giants did poorly. It wasn't the offense that caused the defense to not get opposing QBs in 3rd and long situations.  Not stopping the run and giving up YAC are failings of the defense.

[Brooklyn Dave]

I would love to get Jesse Minter as our DC but I expect if Harbaugh leaves for the NFL he will take Minter with him

[Jclayton92]

That's another interpretation.  I had forgotten Graham had been here back with McAdoo as the D-line coach (if I remember correctly) and I thought highly of him when he was here under McAdoo.

Although, he did come back for the second go-round (with Judge) so clearly he wasn't soured on Mara after his stint with McAdoo

It's not an interpretation because he literally sued the Giants.

[MightyGiants]

It's not an interpretation because he literally sued the Giants.

Graham sued the Giants?

[Philosophers]

Giants were tied for 6th in the league in fewest giveaways, so the "and turns the ball over regularly" narrative doesn't fly. 

There is nothing the offense did that made the defense give up 4.7 YPC on the ground, 2nd worse in the league.  The offense didn't make the defense give up the 4th most rushing yards per game. 

IMO, blaming the offense for the putrid performance of the defense is a non-starter.  And time of possession can't be blamed because the Giants were at 29:26, which is nowhere near horrendous.  And since giving up rushing yardage uses up more clock than passing plays one could argue that the slight TOP deficit was more due to the defense than the offense.

In my analogy I was not referencing the 2023 Giants.

[TDToomer]

Graham sued the Giants?

I had to look this up and can't find anything. Just an article saying the Flores lawsuit doesn't sit well with him. I can't see him returning.