Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: sxdxca38 on Today at 11:45:54 AMHopefully DJ has a bounce back year and this injury thing is simply a moot point.

IF   DJ was being completely honest about his second neck injury just being a routine stinger (and implying it had nothing to do with his prior )neck injury

IF the Giants can properly protect DJ, there is a reasonable chance he can avoid another major injury

Quote from: LennG on Today at 11:42:59 AMKiper gave the Giants a B.

Here was his write-up


Top needs entering the draft: Wide receiver, cornerback, quarterback

The Giants were on the clock at No. 6 overall Thursday night, faced with a fascinating decision: Would they take quarterback J.J. McCarthy -- which would have been an admission that they regret the Daniel Jones extension from the 2023 offseason -- or would they get a true No. 1 wideout for Jones in either Rome Odunze or Malik Nabers? They could start fresh under center or they could give Jones another year with the playmaker he has never had.

Ultimately, I think they made the right call, prioritizing a pass-catcher in Nabers (6), who is electric with the ball in his hands. Jones had a disappointing start to last season and then tore his ACL, but he showed his talent in 2022, when New York made a surprising run to the playoffs. Now he's going to have one more year to prove he's the guy, or the franchise will move on in 2025.

I would have taken a few other safeties ahead of Tyler Nubin (47) in Round 2, but you can't deny his playmaking ability; he had 13 career interceptions for the Golden Gophers. Dru Phillips (70) is a late riser who played a lot of slot coverage snaps in his career. With Darren Waller's future up in the air, I liked the pick of Theo Johnson (107) early on Day 3. He's my fourth-ranked tight end in the class.

This is a small class, but all four of the Giants' top selections should have significant roles this season. Nabers might end up being the most-targeted player on the team.

Former GM Jeff Diamond gives his grade on the Giants


 NEW YORK GIANTS: B+
Despite the rumors, I never believed the New York Giants would pick a first-round quarterback. Daniel Jones was a solid quarterback who won a playoff game in 2022 without a premier wide receiver. As he comes off his ACL injury, he's undoubtedly happy to welcome an elite receiver prospect in Malik Nabers.

The former LSU wideout is explosive and close in ability to Marvin Harrison Jr. Nabers had 44 receptions of 20-plus yards over the last two seasons (and 14 touchdowns last season) playing in the SEC.

Second-rounder Tyler Nubin was the top-ranked safety in the draft. He defends well against the run and pass and will replace Xavier McKinney.

Andru Phillips adds talent at cornerback and Theo Johnson is an athletic tight end —  a good fourth-round value. He's insurance if Darren Waller retires or gets hurt and a possible successor. Tyrone Tracy brings speed and explosiveness to the backfield in the later rounds, and Darius Muasau can be a sixth-round find at linebacker and on special teams.


Here is Diamond's resume

Jeff Diamond is a former general manager of the Minnesota Vikings and team president of the Tennessee Titans. He was selected NFL Executive of the Year after the Vikings' 15-1 season in 1998.

He now works for the NFL agent group IFA based in Minneapolis and does other sports consulting and media work along with college/corporate speaking. You can follow him on Twitter @jeffdiamondNFL.

Quote from: EDjohnst1981 on Today at 11:10:30 AMRe-read my post and please don't put words in my mouth. I never said he should. I simply said I'd be shocked if he did.

I didn't try to put words in your mouth; I was just asking you if you would blame him for not doing so. I am at a loss as to why you would think otherwise.

Quote from: Jclayton92 on Today at 10:55:06 AMHe could have a high qb rating, and qbr but still end up with 3000 yards, 12 tds and 5 ints and that would be successful to you?

With a minimum of at least 15 games, those numbers seem unlikely.  Still, I can't answer that question without knowing why, despite being in the top 10 when throwing the ball, the team elected to have Jones throw so few passes.

Quote from: Jclayton92 on Today at 10:46:49 AMI think the organization would be negligent if they see he is still seeing ghosts to allow him back out there to run into defensive linemen. Yes all of his sacks aren't on him but he didn't help the situation either.

I would be perfectly content with them wrapping him in bubble wrap and placing him at the end of the bench. Then telling him if he wants to play he's welcome to waive the injury clause, if not enjoy your   🍿.

If Jones still sees ghosts, he needs to be benched regardless of the contract.  The team will simply have to accept that they broke DJ beyond repair and move on.

Quote from: Jclayton92 on Today at 10:41:32 AMSo then what is your baseline expectation for Jones this season?

What will be a good season for you? Is that 4,000 yards 20 tds and 5 int or what?

You obviously think Jones will ascend, so was does that look like in production?

I am not a big fan of just statistical measures to say what is a successful season (as that removes context), but I will offer up what I would consider a successful season by Jones:

1)  No more than two games lost to injury, ideally less

2)  A QB rating of at least 95

3)  A QBR of at least 60

4)  As I mentioned previously, I would like to see his YPA hit 7.0 or better


I am not saying Jones will hit these marks, as I can't predict the future.  I do think there is a reasonable chance he will, but I am not going to go far as to say he is favored to do so.

Quote from: EDjohnst1981 on Today at 10:26:54 AMHe squeezed the Giants for every dime in that salary negotiation. I'd be shocked if he took a team friendly approach and waived it.

Considering that NYG's failure to protect him contributed to his injury issues, would you blame him for not waiving this part of his contract?

I will say one thing I would like to see from Jones this season.  I want to see his yards per attempt exceed 7.0 this season.   YPA is a pretty good measure of how a QB is driving the ball downfield, and ideally, you like to see that number be higher than 7.   I recently saw a statistic that Jones has never exceeded that mark in his college or pro career (he came close with a 6.8).   Nabers is DJ's first true YAC generator (although Robinson can also be pretty good at that).  With hopefully better protection and with a couple of receivers who can add to DJ's passing yardage, hopefully, he can finally exceed that 7.0 mark

DJ has an injury guarantee in his contract for 2025.  That fact may push the Giants to bench DJ in the second half if the season is out of hand (as other NFL teams dealing with such guarantees have done).  Here is the explanation by Dan Duggan


Dan Duggan
@DDuggan21
I'll try to answer this thoroughly and hopefully it eliminates the confusion. There are two guarantees in play, which I think is leading to most of the confusion.

• He has a $30M base salary in 2025. $23M of that salary was guaranteed for injury *only* when he signed. So if he has an injury that prevents him from passing a physical and they cut him, he's due that $23M. There's no deadline attached to that. Whenever they cut him, if he can't pass a physical, he's due the $23M.

• If he's on the roster on the fifth day of the 2025 league year (mid-March), $12M of that salary becomes *fully* guaranteed. So if they cut him for any reason after that date, he's due the $12M.

• So the two guarantees collide if he suffers a serious injury that will prevent him from passing a physical next March and they want to cut him. They could cut him and eat the full $23M or they could hold onto him, eat the $12M and then cut him when he's healthy to save the additional $11M.

They could try to get him to waive the injury guarantee, but I'm not sure why he would. You negotiate that into the contract to protect yourself from this very scenario.



https://x.com/DDuggan21/status/1785674778239525322

Quote from: MightyGiants on Today at 08:45:23 AMI have to confess, I was left a bit puzzled.  The claim that Mara "impacted" the decision not to draft a QB at 6 wasn't actually supported by the provided quote.  Either the author mischaracterized Lombardi's quote or they left out important parts of the quote.

I found another take on the quote:


"I wasn't surprised at all by that," Lombardi said on The Sports Junkies on 106.7 The Fan in D.C. on Monday. "Because if you listened to what John Mara said at the owners' meetings ... he said very clearly, 'I'll favor them drafting a quarterback if they're in love.' And he used the word 'love.'"

"I think they were in love with Drake Maye, but I don't think they were in love with J.J. McCarthy. And remember, John Mara, the president of the team -- he's the reason why Daniel Jones is making all that money -- he loves Daniel Jones. He drafted Daniel Jones as the sixth pick overall. Nothing would make them more happy than Daniel Jones being successful. They're almost willing it to happen. It won't, but they're hoping it will."

https://www.audacy.com/973thefansd/sports/lombardi-nygs-loyalty-to-players-causes-bad-decisions


I am not sure that you need an owner to tell a good GM that you should only be drafting a QB at 6 if you love that prospect.  With a less than 50% success rate on drafted QBs, drafting one hoping they will prove to be good is a bit of a fool's errand, in my opinion

Quote from: T200 on Today at 09:48:00 AMSpeaking strictly about *our* conversations, I never said he was a bust but I also said that he has not shown any traces or tendencies of being a franchise QB. He's the very definition of an average QB who is not capable of putting his team on his back and dragging them to a victory. He can get 7-9 wins but doesn't offer anything to get 12-15. He is a step down from Ryan Tannehill but with legs.

I guess that is where we differ.  I see examples of DJs being capable of being franchise QB.  I think his performance against the Vikings and even his record-setting performance against the Cards last season showed that he can be that franchise QB.   Of course, showing flashes and doing it consistently are two separate things.  Everyone sees things a bit differently, and there is nothing wrong with that.

Quote from: T200 on Today at 09:34:42 AMAnd this is where we have and continue to disagree. No need to rehash it. Just thought it was curious that you said "I believe even with disparate support, we can get a sense of how good another QB is", which is exactly why I and others have been saying.

Tim,

You know I choose my words carefully.  Do you think "a sense" is the same as knowing?  When I use the words "a sense," one is less than certain.   When one is less than certain, it should limit the strength of one's statements.   I have always held the position that we can't be certain about DJ being a bust and that there is still some potential (admittedly a bit of a long shot at this point) that he can even prove to be a franchise QB.   

Quote from: T200 on Today at 09:27:08 AMI have been saying this every single year Jones has been in the league: he can be evaluated despite what support he has or doesn't have around him. I got a lot of pushback from you and others saying that it was too difficult to evaluate him because of the lack of quality NFL support.

Seems to me the ability to evaluate a player is subjective.

Tim,

I think there is a nuance on this issue.  In a dysfunctional environment, every, or nearly every, QB will look bad.   In a poor environment, people should factor in the poor environment (many do not).

More importantly, the ability to properly evaluate a quarterback is really the purview of that quarterback's coaching staff.  As Daboll once said, people don't know the play calls.  An apparent open receiver may be meaningless because they ran the wrong route.   The fact of the matter is that we can get a sense of QB play by watching the games (or better yet, reviewing the all-22 with an informed eye), but no one outside the organization can evaluate with a strong degree of certainty (lacking the play calls and the QB's instructions).

Quote from: T200 on Today at 09:19:06 AMAs a fan, and in general, I try not to engage in it. It's self-defeatist, in my opinion.

I'm pretty sure all GMs and coaches know being second-guessed by fans and the media are a part of the job. They expect it and it probably doesn't phase them.

Tim,

I will confess I like to play armchair GM (and occasional HC).  Team-building just fascinates me.  Although I have my ideas of what I would do, I tend not to second-guess the actual GM or HC because I know they make their decisions wth far more information than I do; plus, they know their profession better than I do.  I think all of us do give in to the second-guessing temptation when dealing with GMs like Gettleman and HCs like Joe Judge.