Are the Giants REALLY taking a step back if Jones and Barkley are let go?

[brownelvis54]

Seems to be the million-dollar question moving forward. Do the Giants retain the services of Jones and Barkley? Honestly, I can see Barkley being on another team next year. Purely due to the salary he would be due add to the fact you can get a really good RB in rounds 2 to 4. Dameon Pierce for the Texans was drafted in round 4 and has some pretty good numbers. Giants are the 2nd youngest team in the NFL with a new HC and GM. If we were to start a new...now would be the time. Get a good RB in the draft and save cap space to build for the long-term future.As far as Jones...I like the guy as a person but can see the Giants moving on from him and brining in their own guy.Of course Stround and Young will be gone when we pick...there will be some goods QBs to pick from when we pick. Will Levis, K.J. Jefferson, Hendon Hooker, Grayson McCall, and Tanner McKee all have a chance of being there we the Giants pick.


So, if the Giants move on from these two...in your opinion...are the Giants taking a step back or building for the long-term future?



QB ranking as of now


https://walterfootball.com/draft2023QB.php

[DaveBrown74]

Seems to be the million-dollar question moving forward. Do the Giants retain the services of Jones and Barkley? Honestly, I can see Barkley being on another team next year. Purely due to the salary he would be due add to the fact you can get a really good RB in rounds 2 to 4. Dameon Pierce for the Texans was drafted in round 4 and has some pretty good numbers. Giants are the 2nd youngest team in the NFL with a new HC and GM. If we were to start a new...now would be the time. Get a good RB in the draft and save cap space to build for the long-term future.As far as Jones...I like the guy as a person but can see the Giants moving on from him and brining in their own guy.Of course Stround and Young will be gone when we pick...there will be some goods QBs to pick from when we pick. Will Levis, K.J. Jefferson, Hendon Hooker, Grayson McCall, and Tanner McKee all have a chance of being there we the Giants pick.


So, if the Giants move on from these two...in your opinion...are the Giants taking a step back or building for the long-term future?



QB ranking as of now


https://walterfootball.com/draft2023QB.php

Barkley is the much better player (relative to players of the same position in the rest of the league) than Jones, but he also plays a much easier position to replace. With that said I think Barkley has the higher chance of being brought back. RB pay is a lot lower than QB play, and let's face it, he's the only player on our offense who is going to scare any opponent.

Schoen said himself very plainly that they don't know yet with Jones and the next 9 games will matter a lot. I'm just going to see how it plays out. Right now I think he's a 4 out of 10 to come back, and if you told me that it was definitely going to cost the Giant at leas the tag to bring him back (ie they couldn't get him at something between $10m and $20m let's say), I'd have him at a 2.

[Slugsy-Narrows]

Yes

As the team is now.

We are scoring and winning games because of them two as the other skill positions are NOT stepping up.

I don't have an issue taking a step back to leap forward though.

This year was not supposed to have this kind of record.

So if JS and Dabs feel this is DJs ceiling I'd rather then take a step back then sink a fixed cost into just what he is. But then take a big step forward down the road


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[jimv]

I shouldn't have read this thread.  I've become sick & tired of all this anti-DJ&SB stuff.  So, I'll just have to avoid it as best I can.

[uconnjack8]

Remember last year's offense?  It's similar to what this year would look like without Barkley.

[Philosophers]

Coaches have a lot of hubris.  Nearly all think they can coach blood out of a rock.  I would not be surprised if our coaches think that they can coach DJ ip to a top 75th percentile or higher given his attitude and extremely high coach ability demeanor.  Coaches may be thinking how he's improved after a short offseason with them so another and he takes a leap forward.  Just throwing it out there.

[Jclayton92]

If Schoen didn't want Barkley back next year he would be on the 49ers right now instead of CMC.

I honestly think our passing game can't get any worse than it is right now and even if we use Tyrod next year it can only get better.

[Rambo89]

Think if the Giants do decide to move on from Jones and go with a rookie QB that they need to hold onto Barkley to have him be that security blanket for the rookie QB.  Should the Giants decide to retain Daniel Jones with the big cap hit that will come with it then they need to consider investing more into the passing game letting Barkley walk. 

There's a better argument that they'll take a step back offensively letting Jones walk and going with a rookie QB with that learning curve than there is if they let Barkley walk keeping Jones.  But that step back with the rookie QB would be short term with the idea of taking a bigger step forward in 2024 and beyond.

[DaveBrown74]

Think if the Giants do decide to move on from Jones and go with a rookie QB that they need to hold onto Barkley to have him be that security blanket for the rookie QB.  Should the Giants decide to retain Daniel Jones with the big cap hit that will come with it then they need to consider investing more into the passing game letting Barkley walk. 

There's a better argument that they'll take a step back offensively letting Jones walk and going with a rookie QB with that learning curve than there is if they let Barkley walk keeping Jones.  But that step back with the rookie QB would be short term with the idea of taking a bigger step forward in 2024 and beyond.

I agree with these points, but I would just note that RB is a position where rookies tend to perform very well. The learning curve is not nearly as steep as other positions. So while I don't think any rookie RB they draft will be on Barkley's level, it is not implausible at all that on day two of the draft they could find next year's Breece Hall, Dameon Pierce, Kenneth Walker, or last year's Javonte Williams. It's not like it takes 2-3 years for a RB to get up to speed in the NFL.

[Slugsy-Narrows]

Giants could have competition for Daniel Jones after season: 4 teams might be interested, plus 2 wild cards

Carolina
Houston
Indiana
Washington
Tampa
Jets????

https://www.nj.com/giants/2022/11/giants-could-have-competition-for-daniel-jones-after-season-who-else-might-want-him.html

One man's trash is another man's treasure!

Could one of those teams above with an OLINE and Skill players in place but lacking a QB see Jones as enough to take them to the next step?

Washington has overpaid for our talent before look not further to LC as proof!

The Colts are another team that seems a QB away, only issue with them is they may actually end the year bad enough to draft one rather then pay for another one and take another risk.

Houston is a team that is playing teams hard but seems to just fall short!

My point is.........

IF JS believes DJ is NOT the answer then none of this matters!  He will walk and can sign anywhere with no issue to the Giants.

BUT.........

If JS does want him back, it may not be at a team friendly deal.  There are other teams that may see DJ as fixable and part of a BAD GIANT SYSTEM!

As a FA if the Giants let the season end without an extension now JS has to complete with other teams for his services. 

So I don't agree JS has 9 games to figure this out.  He has 4-6 at most and then if he wants him he needs to sign him IF HE WANTS TO KEEP HIM THAT IS, or we will pay more for him then we may want to.


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[CVA14]

Barkley depends on what you can get for him. And sorry I'm not convinced anyone has the potential in next year's QB class to excite me or to meet Schoen's criteria in the NFL.

[Jclayton92]

Giants could have competition for Daniel Jones after season: 4 teams might be interested, plus 2 wild cards

Carolina
Houston
Indiana
Washington
Tampa
Jets????

https://www.nj.com/giants/2022/11/giants-could-have-competition-for-daniel-jones-after-season-who-else-might-want-him.html

One man's trash is another man's treasure!

Could one of those teams above with an OLINE and Skill players in place but lacking a QB see Jones as enough to take them to the next step?

Washington has overpaid for our talent before look not further to LC as proof!

The Colts are another team that seems a QB away, only issue with them is they may actually end the year bad enough to draft one rather then pay for another one and take another risk.

Houston is a team that is playing teams hard but seems to just fall short!

My point is.........

IF JS believes DJ is NOT the answer then none of this matters!  He will walk and can sign anywhere with no issue to the Giants.

BUT.........

If JS does want him back, it may not be at a team friendly deal.  There are other teams that may see DJ as fixable and part of a BAD GIANT SYSTEM!

As a FA if the Giants let the season end without an extension now JS has to complete with other teams for his services. 

So I don't agree JS has 9 games to figure this out.  He has 4-6 at most and then if he wants him he needs to sign him IF HE WANTS TO KEEP HIM THAT IS, or we will pay more for him then we may want to.


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I Pray another team signs him, let them make that mistake and let us pick up a comp pick in the process.

[TDToomer]

Sigh. Another Jones/Barkley thread when a season long discussion is a sticky thread at the top of page 1. Come on people.

https://giantsfans.net/message_board/index.php?topic=63296.90

[LennG]

There is just no way the Giants go forward without one of these guys. We will have money next year, so why let a guy like Barkley walk, unless we can rob some other team of 2 #1s for him? He is elite and if he were traded, we would need elite back for him. Just no way he enters the FA market.

I can under stand a team that is weak and needs a QB, but a team like the Bucs, who are in a win-now mode, they would never opt for Jones unless as a back up for Brady who says he is playing next year.

[todge]

I Pray another team signs him, let them make that mistake and let us pick up a comp pick in the process.

You better break out the rosary beads, light all the novena candles you can find and even go to Lourdes. Daniel Jones will be the Giant QB next year and not Tyrod Taylor or any other scrub you can find.

I guess you haven't noticed that DJ has more 4th quarter comebacks than any other QB in the league. All that with what is probably the worst WR corp in the entire league.

We get it. You don't like DJ. But you're letting your dislike for him cloud your thinking into this delusion that he flat out stinks.


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