DJ vs Mahomes

[Alamo]

Watched the game last night. Mahomes is electric on most plays.But I noticed he had some real bad throws last night..Not one or two either.He's human,just like Jones.Better player,yes.But Mahomes has a cast of excellent WR's and one great TE.
Here's his stats from last night.
43/68 446yds 6.6 avg 2 td's 1 Int 63 r/yds
17/21 188yds 8.9 avg  2td's 1 Int 25 r/yds
Jones stats against the same team..
Other then the passing yds,everything else is the same.Even the scores of the game are about the same Except..Mahomes was trying to beat a ROOKIE QB..
The one glaring difference between Mahomes that really matters to me here is Mahomes 6.6 yds per play..Jones 8.9 yds per play.
We can't just look at the passing yds only,because Jones could have those with 2 real good WR's and a great TE also.
What would Jones yds be passing if he threw 60 passes at a 8.9 yds per pass completion with 40 catches ???

[MightyGiants]

Good post, Alamo

I didn't watch last night's game, so I can't add to it.  I did watch the Jets VS Bills game, and I saw Josh Allen face the sort of situation Jones often finds himself in (in terms of pressures, hits, and sacks), and he looked like DJ did last season.   Although, in fairness, that 4-21 throw was right on the money and in my opinion, the WR should have caught it (admittedly, with the CB all over him it would have been a spectacular play)

[Jolly Blue Giant]

Good points. I thought maybe Toney would start out like a barn fire, but nope. Mahommes has an arsenol of receiving weapons. Lucky him!

[Jolly Blue Giant]

I wonder what the deal is with Skyy Moore. I had him on my radar during the last draft. The Chiefs took him with their 2nd rd pick

In his last season in college he had 1,292 yds and 10 TDs and was a jitterbug. Now in the NFL, he has 6 receptions in 13 targets for a hundred yards in 8 games. He also has two lost fumbles which might be the kicker that explains things

Just expected "more from Moore" 

[MightyGiants]

I can add one thing to help with the comparison.  I can show the PFF graded lineups for both teams

[Slugsy-Narrows]

Watched the game last night. Mahomes is electric on most plays.But I noticed he had some real bad throws last night..Not one or two either.He's human,just like Jones.Better player,yes.But Mahomes has a cast of excellent WR's and one great TE.
Here's his stats from last night.
43/68 446yds 6.6 avg 2 td's 1 Int 63 r/yds
17/21 188yds 8.9 avg  2td's 1 Int 25 r/yds
Jones stats against the same team..
Other then the passing yds,everything else is the same.Even the scores of the game are about the same Except..Mahomes was trying to beat a ROOKIE QB..
The one glaring difference between Mahomes that really matters to me here is Mahomes 6.6 yds per play..Jones 8.9 yds per play.
We can't just look at the passing yds only,because Jones could have those with 2 real good WR's and a great TE also.
What would Jones yds be passing if he threw 60 passes at a 8.9 yds per pass completion with 40 catches ???

He would need WRs that could catch them and with a RB like SB (which Mahomes doesn't have 1/4 of a RB like SB) there is no reason to be so lopsided and pass so much.

KC is a passing threat but for the same reason they lost last year they will lose in the playoffs this year, to win in the playoffs you need a balance and KC has no run game other then Mahomes.

If Mahomes could get a RB to run the ball to set up the pass he would be at a whole other level.

We have to opposite we run but then can't pass so everyone loads the box.


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[Ed Vette]

Mahomes clearly had an off night and he had to throw the ball 47 more times since he had no run game whatsoever. I recall only one blitz as the game plan was to blanket his Receivers. The Chief's Offense is the antithesis of the Giants.

[kingm56]

Watched the game last night. Mahomes is electric on most plays.But I noticed he had some real bad throws last night..Not one or two either.He's human,just like Jones.Better player,yes.But Mahomes has a cast of excellent WR's and one great TE.
Here's his stats from last night.
43/68 446yds 6.6 avg 2 td's 1 Int 63 r/yds
17/21 188yds 8.9 avg  2td's 1 Int 25 r/yds
Jones stats against the same team..
Other then the passing yds,everything else is the same.Even the scores of the game are about the same Except..Mahomes was trying to beat a ROOKIE QB..
The one glaring difference between Mahomes that really matters to me here is Mahomes 6.6 yds per play..Jones 8.9 yds per play.
We can't just look at the passing yds only,because Jones could have those with 2 real good WR's and a great TE also.
What would Jones yds be passing if he threw 60 passes at a 8.9 yds per pass completion with 40 catches ???

If you look hard enough, you can easily find a favorable comparison, which is what you've done here.  However, it's one game, in a vacuum; what I believe matters is the aggregate, to which there is no comparison whatsoever:

Mahomes
Yards   #1 (2605)
TD   #1 (21)
RTG   #4 (103.6)
QBR   #2 (75.4)
PFF   #1 (87.4)

Jones
Yards   #24 (1399)
TD   #25 (6)
RTG   #20 (88)
QBR   #12 (58)
PFF   #19 (64.6)

Mahomes had an off-night last evening and STILL threw for 400+ yards; also, we can try to create the narrative that KC's wr core is something special. However, KC obviously doesn't feel the same as they just gave up a top 100 pick for a malcontent, oft-injured WR.  It also torpedoes the narrative that a QB cannot be successful without a Tier-1 WR, as Mahomes is on pace for better numbers without T. Hill.  Moreover, while DJ receiver core is indeed lackluster, he's not playing without supporting talent.  If the season ended today, the Giants offense would have 2x APs (Thomas and Barkley).  Outside of himself, Mahomes has 1. DJ also benefits from the NFL's 5th best rushing attack and 2nd leading rusher (Barkley); conversely, Mahomes 'enjoys' the 24th best ground game.  This creates the paradigm you witnessed last night, where the defense plays 7 deep to focus on the pass.  The Giants experience the exact opposite scheme; defenses crowd the line to focus on Barkley and make the Giants passing game beat them.  Finally, you seem to have more confidence in DJ than our own coaches.  With 1:30 left before the half, and multiple timeouts, while trailing, the Giants elected to run 2x draws.  If Mahomes is your QB, even with the Giants wr corps, there's no way you play that scared...

[LennG]

That was a bad night for Mahomes and your stats are for a great night for Jones.

Are you seriously comparing Jones to Mahones? Now I have heard everything.        

          

[MightyGiants]

If you look hard enough, you can easily find a favorable comparison, which is what you've done here.  However, it's one game, in a vacuum; what I believe matters is the aggregate, to which there is no comparison whatsoever:

Mahomes
Yards    #1 (2605)
TD    #1 (21)
RTG    #4 (103.6)
QBR    #2 (75.4)
PFF    #1 (87.4)

Jones
Yards    #24 (1399)
TD    #25 (6)
RTG    #20 (88)
QBR    #12 (58)
PFF    #19 (64.6)

Mahomes had an off-night last evening and STILL threw for 400+ yards; also, we can try to create the narrative that KC's wr core is something special. However, KC obviously doesn't feel the same as they just gave up a top 100 pick for a malcontent, oft-injured WR.  It also torpedoes the narrative that a QB cannot be successful without a Tier-1 WR, as Mahomes is on pace for better numbers without T. Hill.  Moreover, while DJ receiver core is indeed lackluster, he's not playing without supporting talent.  If the season ended today, the Giants offense would have 2x APs (Thomas and Barkley).  Outside of himself, Mahomes has 1. DJ also benefits from the NFL's 5th best rushing attack and 2nd leading rusher (Barkley); conversely, Mahomes 'enjoys' the 24th best ground game.  This creates the paradigm you witnessed last night, where the defense plays 7 deep to focus on the pass.  The Giants experience the exact opposite scheme; defenses crowd the line to focus on Barkley and make the Giants passing game beat them.  Finally, you seem to have more confidence in DJ than our own coaches.  With 1:30 left before the half, and multiple timeouts, while trailing, the Giants elected to run 2x draws.  If Mahomes is your QB, even with the Giants wr corps, there's no way you play that scared...

Two thoughts:

1) if you say Mahomes had an off night but he still threw for more than 400 yards, maybe raw passing yardage isn't a good stat to measure performance by

2) While Mahomes doesn't have an elite WR target, it's hard not to look at the lineup and see Travis Kelce with his PFF grade of 90.7, which leads all TEs.  QBs need TARGETS (in my opinion), and they can come in the form of WR, TE, or even sometimes RB.

[Philosophers]

I watched the entire Chiefs game.  Mahommes did not have an off night.  He was under pressure the entire night from both the edge and up the middle.  The Titans were relentless and hitting everyone hard and often.

Mahommes looked like any other QB including DJ when under constant pressure.  Rattled, uncomfortable and missing throws because he may get hit at any time.

[kingm56]

I watched the entire Chiefs game.  Mahommes did not have an off night.  He was under pressure the entire night from both the edge and up the middle.  The Titans were relentless and hitting everyone hard and often.

Mahommes looked like any other QB including DJ when under constant pressure.  Rattled, uncomfortable and missing throws because he may get hit at any time.

Really?  43 - 68 (63%) 446 yards 1 TD 1 Int / 63 Rushing yards 1 TD are typical QB numbers/play?

[Rambo89]

I just can't anymore with this comparison the rare times it's perceived that Mahomes has a bad or even off game Daniel Jones is brought it.  First of all it's unfair to compare Daniel Jones to a player who has been an MVP, A Super Bowl MVP, a first team all pro and a second team all pro.  Second and most importantly their skill sets are not even close to one another. 

[Philosophers]

Really?  43 - 68 (63%) 446 yards 1 TD 1 Int / 63 Rushing yards 1 TD are typical QB numbers/play?

Missing throws was my point

[kingm56]

Two thoughts:

1) if you say Mahomes had an off night but he still threw for more than 400 yards, maybe raw passing yardage isn't a good stat to measure performance by
I never use one metric to validate my suppositions; look at Mahomes aggregate numbers for that game...they were well above average. Yet, it was still an off-night FOR HIM. 

2) While Mahomes doesn't have an elite WR target, it's hard not to look at the lineup and see Travis Kelce with his PFF grade of 90.7, which leads all TEs.  QBs need TARGETS (in my opinion), and they can come in the form of WR, TE, or even sometimes RB.
No disagreement here; however, there seems to be a narrative that DJ is playing without talent, which I simply believe isn't true.  Moreover, a top tier WR doesn't convert a bottom 10 passer to a top 10 one. Still, I do agree with your point.