Justin Herbert- proof that just adding an elite QB will turn around a franchise

[T200]

What's mind-boggling is that Gettleman staked his reputation on two things:

1 - Hog mollies
2 - NO QB hell

Instead of alleviating/preventing those situations, he actually made one worse and created the other!

As it pertains to this thread, he wanted Herbert in the worst way. Herbert decided to stay in school. Not sure if it was because he didn't want to be a part of the Giants or what. Maybe he was avoiding going to a team that couldn't protect the QB at that time. The irony isn't lost on me. And, to add further irony, Eli ditched the Chargers and ended up with us. Herbert seemingly did the same.

Why didn't Gettleman wait another year for Herbert? Why did he pick a QB he really didn't want? He clearly settled (Dave Settleman) and here we are now, in that same QB hell, blaming everyone and everything BUT the QB. THAT'S the very definition of QB hell.

[Philosophers]

Justin Herbert is considered by most to be among the elite QBs in the league.

Yet in his 4 years in the team, they failed to make the playoffs twice, lost a wildcard game, and are on pace for another season failing to make the playoffs.  Since the Giants actually won a playoff game during that same stretch, it seems, in some ways the Chargers have done worse than the Giants even with an elite QB.

Now, the point I am making isn't the one most would think.  I am pointing to the danger of drawing conclusions from just one QB's situation.   This includes citing often-injured Joe Burrow as proof an elite QB can function with a bad O-line or CJ Stroud as proof that just changing the QB can turn a franchise around.

I think as we debate and discuss the team, its fortunes, and what it should do, we are careful not to use exceptions to create the rule.

Bravo Rich.  I could not agree more.  I think we all agree that certain positions may be more important with respect to turning around a team such as QB but it is basically a 22 starter league.

[Dgoodmantrublu]

His brother was an incoming freshman. He wanted to play with him for a year.

What's mind-boggling is that Gettleman staked his reputation on two things:

1 - Hog mollies
2 - NO QB hell

Instead of alleviating/preventing those situations, he actually made one worse and created the other!

As it pertains to this thread, he wanted Hervert in the worst way. Herbert decided to stay in school. Not sure if it was because he didn't want to be a part of the Giants or what. Maybe he was avoiding going to a team that couldn't protect the QB at that time. The irony isn't lost on me. And, to add further irony, Eli ditched the Chargers and ended up with us. Herbert seemingly did the same.

Why didn't Gettleman wait another year for Herbert? Why did he pick a QB he really didn't want? He clearly settled (Dave Settleman) and here we are now, in that same QB hell, blaming everyone and everything BUT the QB. THAT'S the very definition of QB hell.

[T200]

His brother was an incoming freshman. He wanted to play with him for a year.

Understandable. DG could have waited instead of settling.

[Dgoodmantrublu]

Should have.

Understandable. DG could have waited instead of settling.

[kingm56]

What makes anyone here think there is  a right decision on a QB with #1 pick. It is a gamble to pick a QB #1.  No matter who it is. Who was it , Haskins that was supposed to be the guy for Giants? How did he do in NFL.
Yes teams have to have a very good QB to build around... but why would any Giant fan think the Giants are capable of doing that.
They have been picking in top ten most years for a decade and have nothing to show for it.

Shoen  has one or two more years to get it done in my opinion.  And then if does make them competitive he will be exception to Mara Tech record of front office hires.
Just saw Williams make a great pass.


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Based on your argument, the Giants should never draft a QB because they might be a bust?  Are you really advocating for retraining a known bust because his replacement might also be a bust? 

[EDjohnst1981]

When the excuses were being made for Jones' non-elite play, it was often stated that his early years were hampered by the coaching.

In fact, coaching was one of the 'three pillars' to success - something that was omitted in the analysis of Herbert.

I don't think anyone thinks that automatically picking a QB is going to make everything right. The giants picked one 6th overall and are still in a mess.

[andrew_nyGiants]

Haskins is no where in the class of anyone at the top of this QB group. Please be serious.

Haskins is dead, and passed at a very early age. So please, a modicum of respect.

No one knows whether or not he would've turned it around with Tomlin's guidance, and we never will.

RIP YOUNG MR HASKINS


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[Doc16LT56]

Haskins is dead, and passed at a very early age. So please, a modicum of respect.

No one knows whether or not he would've turned it around with Tomlin's guidance, and we never will.

RIP YOUNG MR HASKINS


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Please don't do this. We all understood what he was saying. As a "draft prospect" Haskins did not grade out as high as Williams and Maye. That's not a controversial statement and has nothing to do with being respectful of the dead.

[andrew_nyGiants]

Please don't do this. We all understood what he was saying. As a "draft prospect" Haskins did not grade out as high as Williams and Maye. That's not a controversial statement and has nothing to do with being respectful of the dead.

Normally I wouldn't. However he referred to Mr. Haskins in the present tense and I found that offensive.

I apologize to anyone who is offended by my reply.


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[Uni]

When the excuses were being made for Jones' non-elite play, it was often stated that his early years were hampered by the coaching.

In fact, coaching was one of the 'three pillars' to success - something that was omitted in the analysis of Herbert.

I don't think anyone thinks that automatically picking a QB is going to make everything right. The giants picked one 6th overall and are still in a mess.

I think you are confusing team success with QB play. Make no mistake -- Jones is NOT elite, regardless of his teammates. Herbert is an elite QB even with the limitations of his team.

[DaveBrown74]

Haskins is dead, and passed at a very early age. So please, a modicum of respect.

No one knows whether or not he would've turned it around with Tomlin's guidance, and we never will.

RIP YOUNG MR HASKINS


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This is unnecessarily and unfairly preachy. Nobody was attacking Haskins' character or insulting him. To give an honest account of what he was (or had accomplished) as a football player years after his passing is not in any way disrespectful, nor should it be off limits if it's to illustrate a point. It was not "disrespect" on any level.

To try to make someone feel guilty for giving an honest football statement that is a direct part of the underlying discussion and was in no way shape or form an attack against Haskins the human being is ridiculous. Since when does dying entitle a person to eternal, deliberate mischaracterizations or outright fabrications of what they did professionally? Give me a break.

[Jclayton92]

I just don't see how anyone could not be for us taking a Qb after 5+ years of horrible Qb play. I know everyone wants the line fixed but elite Qb play will help the line, plus we don't need to draft a lineman, we need a plug and play lineman. I also don't think we are that far off from a good line, which would be even more reason to draft a Qb now.

[Dgoodmantrublu]

They picked a guy they were mocked for picking. He wasn't a first round talent. All the prospects we are talking about picking are much better prospects. If they hit, they are likely to turn the trajectory of the franchise around just as Stroud has done in Houston.

When the excuses were being made for Jones' non-elite play, it was often stated that his early years were hampered by the coaching.

In fact, coaching was one of the 'three pillars' to success - something that was omitted in the analysis of Herbert.

I don't think anyone thinks that automatically picking a QB is going to make everything right. The giants picked one 6th overall and are still in a mess.

[Jclayton92]

Us picking Harrison over an Elite Qb prospect would basically be saquan all over again. Great talent we can't use properly.