https://www.si.com/nfl/giants/news/49ers-defense-mocked-daniel-jones-after-loss
If there's any truth to this it does show with how predictable Jones is in his decision making
Hope we see them again with a healthy and improved oline in the playoffs. They got lucky early, paid off the refs, and not one of our oline combined doesn't have a full season starting.
Quote from: Rambo89 on September 23, 2023, 04:21:47 PMIf there's any truth to this it does show with how predictable Jones is in his decision making
Hmm, maybe the protection had something to do with it as well as the play calling. Same in Arizona, conservative first half & opened it up 2nd half.
Think most asked why they were dinking and dunking nearly all game. Then again, look at out oline starters and their experience. Not hard to figure out why, unfortunately.
Quote from: DragonSoul on September 23, 2023, 04:29:30 PMHmm, maybe the protection had something to do with it as well as the play calling. Same in Arizona, conservative first half & opened it up 2nd half.
Think most asked why they were dinking and dunking nearly all game. Then again, look at out oline starters and their experience. Not hard to figure out why, unfortunately.
Exactly, he followed a game plan and he didn't call the plays or the personnel groups.
Quote from: DragonSoul on September 23, 2023, 04:29:30 PMHmm, maybe the protection had something to do with it as well as the play calling. Same in Arizona, conservative first half & opened it up 2nd half.
Think most asked why they were dinking and dunking nearly all game. Then again, look at out oline starters and their experience. Not hard to figure out why, unfortunately.
Or maybe Jones has a habit of always looking for the Checkdowns instead of down field.
Quote from: Rambo89 on September 23, 2023, 04:43:25 PMOr maybe Jones has a habit of always looking for the Checkdowns instead of down field.
Yeah maybe, as one of the most accurate deep passers around. Under Pat he got the nickname Danny Dimes for throwing deep and accurate passes not dinks. But sure.
And on a serious note, if he has limited protection I can't blame him unless u want him to get killed. Some couldn't get open fast enough, some dropped passes (and another int from a wr can't bring in the catch), a lot of bad pass pro, and sure some are on him, like any other qb. Clean up the pass pro and u will see a different DJ. Not sure what is hard to understand... But sure, let's kick him to the curb & that defense was no help either.
Whatever the deal with Jones,some pretty classless sh1t (if the unattributed quotes are accurate).
They bought some success pre cap, screw them.
But file this for now......
Quote from: DragonSoul on September 23, 2023, 04:56:40 PMYeah maybe, as one of the most accurate deep passers around. Under Pat he got the nickname Danny Dimes for throwing deep and accurate passes not dinks. But sure.
And on a serious note, if he has limited protection I can't blame him unless u want him to get killed. Some couldn't get open fast enough, some dropped passes (and another int from a wr can't bring in the catch), a lot of bad pass pro, and sure some are on him, like any other qb. Clean up the pass pro and u will see a different DJ. Not sure what is hard to understand... But sure, let's kick him to the curb & that defense was no help either.
Again this isn't about his arm strength or accuracy. It's about his pocket awareness and instincts lacking.
Not surprised, coming from players who have mastered the cheap shot.
Quote from: Rambo89 on September 23, 2023, 05:09:55 PMAgain this isn't about his arm strength or accuracy. It's about his pocket awareness and instincts lacking.
I know what you were getting at, but I guess you missed what I was getting at. If we had a solid oline and he did as he was doing, then I would tend to agree with you, but what consistent oline have we had that was also solid over the last few years?
Our oline started to decline when we won our last SB, I was calling for upgrades back then, and since then, we have never really had a solid/trustworthy oline that our QB's could rely on.
I lived through Kent, Brown, Danny & u saw they had no awareness or real traits. I wanted them gone fairly early based on that. I will call out players that should be gone and others that need a chance. As Mara said, they did everything they could to screw up DJ. Their biggest need is to get that oline straight.
Quote from: DragonSoul on September 23, 2023, 05:13:23 PMI know what you were getting at, but I guess you missed what I was getting at. If we had a solid oline and he did as he was doing, then I would tend to agree with you, but what consistent oline have we had that was also solid over the last few years?
Our oline started to decline when we won our last SB, I was calling for upgrades back then, and since then, we have never really had a solid/trustworthy oline that our QB's could rely on.
I lived through Kent, Brown, Danny & u saw they had no awareness or real traits. I wanted them gone fairly early based on that. I will call out players that should be gone and others that need a chance. As Mara said, they did everything they could to screw up DJ. Their biggest need is to get that oline straight.
If it's always about what's around Daniel Jones and never about him then it tells me he's not ever going to be elite. Yes, he has proven he can be a solid average QB. He's not awful but not great.
Difference between the guys you mentioned and Jones is that Jones has better physical skills than they do but his pocket awareness and instincts are just as lacking as theirs were. I hate to tell John Mara but no matter how much he tries to find the next Eli looking for a QB with a similar personality there is only one Eli. Find a QB with the full skill set rather than another Eli.
Quote from: Rambo89 on September 23, 2023, 05:31:22 PMIf it's always about what's around Daniel Jones and never about him then it tells me he's not ever going to be elite. Yes, he has proven he can be a solid average QB. He's not awful but not great.
Difference between the guys you mentioned and Jones is that Jones has better physical skills than they do but his pocket awareness and instincts are just as lacking as theirs were. I hate to tell John Mara but no matter how much he tries to find the next Eli looking for a QB with a similar personality there is only one Eli. Find a QB with the full skill set rather than another Eli.
Properly protected, like Eli was in 2007 and 2008, Daniel Jones is the better QB than Eli in the regular season. It remains to be seen what the post season unfolds. Even Eli crapped out in win or out playoff games. The jury is still out.
Quote from: Ed Vette on September 23, 2023, 05:42:43 PMProperly protected, like Eli was in 2007 and 2008, Daniel Jones is the better QB than Eli in the regular season. It remains to be seen what the post season unfolds. Even Eli crapped out in win or out playoff games. The jury is still out.
Eli didn't have a good offensive line until 2008. His first few seasons it was hardly great.
Quote from: Rambo89 on September 23, 2023, 05:58:51 PMEli didn't have a good offensive line until 2008. His first few seasons it was hardly great.
he had a good Offensive Line a year after Snee was drafted and they brought in Mac and O'Hara. Diehl and Suebert were excellent players. I put this line up against the Suburbanites any day.
For what it's worth, they shouldn't make fun of Jones. It was the game plan. What the coaches devised based on what they think he could hand. That being said, can we please stop with the excuses for a fifth year QB who is making serious change for playing the position?
Quote from: Ed Vette on September 23, 2023, 06:10:12 PMhe had a good Offensive Line a year after Snee was drafted and they brought in Mac and O'Hara. Diehl and Suebert were excellent players. I put this line up against the Suburbanites any day.
They weren't good. They weren't awful but they didn't become the excellent offensive line until the 08 season.
Quote from: Rambo89 on September 23, 2023, 06:52:03 PMThey weren't good. They weren't awful but they didn't become the excellent offensive line until the 08 season.
prove it
Quote from: Ed Vette on September 23, 2023, 06:54:10 PMprove it
The year after snee was drafted, third in points and 4th in yardage. 11 wins. 24 passing TDS and 17 rushing TDS.
Quote from: Ed Vette on September 23, 2023, 07:05:30 PMThe year after snee was drafted, third in points and 4th in yardage. 11 wins. 24 passing TDS and 17 rushing TDS.
That was also the year they signed Burress and the first full season of Eli Manning as their Starting QB. So to say it was because they drafted Snee simply isn't true. Because there were other factors as well that led to that increase in production mainly the QB's play.
Meh... what goes around, comes around.
Plenty of folks here were gloating when Kadarius Toney had a case of the dropsies and cost KC the game in the season opener.
Then we go 6 quarters before scoring. And now a team is talking smack about our QB after they beat us. Stones and glass houses aren't a good combination.
Don't want them to talk smack? Play better.
Whether or not Jones deserves what they said is meaningless. Why put bulletin board material out there as what goes around comes around eventually.
Quote from: Rambo89 on September 23, 2023, 07:07:49 PMThat was also the year they signed Burress and the first full season of Eli Manning as their Starting QB. So to say it was because they drafted Snee simply isn't true. Because there were other factors as well that led to that increase in production mainly the QB's play.
2004 Sacks % 6.2%
2005, 6 and 7 all under 5%
2008 2009 over 5%
Pressure
I actually think sensitive fans and click-bait seeker types are the only ones who significantly care about this stuff. Players talk all the time. Part of the business. I don't think Jones is bothered. And frankly when you get paid major money like him you're always going to be that much more under the microscope, so those who are taking umbrage might want to get used to it as long as we're not winning and/or as long as he's not lighting it up.
Quote from: Ed Vette on September 23, 2023, 07:18:21 PM2004 Sacks % 6.2%
2005, 6 and 7 all under 5%
2008 2009 over 5%
Pressure
Eli's flaws were always that he was too much of a risk taker....but he knew when to get rid of the ball and not walk into sacks.
Quote from: Rambo89 on September 23, 2023, 07:30:56 PMEli's flaws were always that he was too much of a risk taker....but he knew when to get rid of the ball and not walk into sacks.
Stop it you're deflecting. That line held up under pressure, they allowed a huge increase in rushing and passing yards. It was the beginning of one of the best Offensive Lines in Giants history. Which led to two SBs. Eli was a turnover machine early on until McAdoo. He fumbled and threw interceptions. He had WTF moments. The 2004 line was the beginning of its development and it struggled. The 2003 line was the reason for the fall of Fassel. It didn't start in 2008. It started in 2005.
Quote from: Ed Vette on September 23, 2023, 07:40:34 PMStop it you're deflecting. That line held up under pressure, they allowed a huge increase in rushing and passing yards. It was the beginning of one of the best Offensive Lines in Giants history. Which led to two SBs. Eli was a turnover machine early on until McAdoo. He fumbled and threw interceptions. He had WTF moments. The 2004 line was the beginning of its development and it struggled. The 2003 line was the reason for the fall of Fassel. It didn't start in 2008. It started in 2005.
Not deflecting. That line didn't take off until 08. And yes, I am not denying Eli wasn't a turnover machine. He was. It was his weakness taking too many chances. But he knew when to get rid of the ball and took chances down the field letting plays develop. In that part of his career he wasn't always looking for the check downs as Jones does.
Quote from: Rambo89 on September 23, 2023, 07:45:37 PMNot deflecting. That line didn't take off until 08. And yes, I am not denying Eli wasn't a turnover machine. He was. It was his weakness taking too many chances. But he knew when to get rid of the ball and took chances down the field letting plays develop. In that part of his career he wasn't always looking for the check downs as Jones does.
I just gave you all the stats to prove it. You can choose to believe what you want but you can't make up your own facts. Which you have not provided. Just your opinion with no basis whatsoever. I was there every week watching that line from section 303 with binoculars. I lived it and I trust my eyes. Show me proof to the contrary.
I bet DJ wishes he was drafted by a team that has an actual OL. I wonder if he wishes they allowed him to be a FA.
Why doesn't Jones ever seem to audible?
Unless I miss it, it doesn't seem like he ever does. Does that concern anyone?
Quote from: Rambo89 on September 23, 2023, 05:31:22 PMIf it's always about what's around Daniel Jones and never about him then it tells me he's not ever going to be elite. Yes, he has proven he can be a solid average QB. He's not awful but not great.
Difference between the guys you mentioned and Jones is that Jones has better physical skills than they do but his pocket awareness and instincts are just as lacking as theirs were. I hate to tell John Mara but no matter how much he tries to find the next Eli looking for a QB with a similar personality there is only one Eli. Find a QB with the full skill set rather than another Eli.
Do you recall how Brady looked in the SB when his line couldn't protect him? Even Mahomes when both his tackles were injured heading to the SB game. Wasn't a good outcome for either.
You need stability there. If they ever get there, then we can see. First, he had issues with turnovers and staying healthy. He corrected them by not always trying to do too much as many of the QBS try to do. There are times to take chances and then others not. He also (knock on wood) has started to stay healthy.
Eli had line problems and looked like crap for years due to it as well as bad weapons around him for years. If they had at least good/average players he would have done more and maybe played several more years.
The bottom line, he has looked good when he generally has had protection, but without at least an average oline the majority of the time, it's hard to judge a QB when the QB gets hit, and sacked all the time.
Wasn't it nearly 70% of his pass plays vs. the Cowboys DJ got hit? And you want him to stand in the pocket longer with that "protection"? I know some people like pain, but that would be unbearable lol.
Again, can agree to disagree. But if/when they fix that oline and if DJ is still here then if he dinks/dunks I'm rt with you. Otherwise the jury is still out.
Quote from: miss86 on September 23, 2023, 10:41:28 PMI bet DJ wishes he was drafted by a team that has an actual OL. I wonder if he wishes they allowed him to be a FA.
They didn't tag him. He didn't have to sign here.
Quote from: miss86 on September 23, 2023, 10:41:28 PMI bet DJ wishes he was drafted by a team that has an actual OL. I wonder if he wishes they allowed him to be a FA.
He had his chance to be a FA and turned it down. I think he knows the grass isn't always greener on the other side and not every team would be as patient with him as the Giants have due to having an owner who is obsessed with him succeeding.
Quote from: DragonSoul on September 24, 2023, 12:09:05 AMDo you recall how Brady looked in the SB when his line couldn't protect him? Even Mahomes when both his tackles were injured heading to the SB game. Wasn't a good outcome for either.
You need stability there. If they ever get there, then we can see. First, he had issues with turnovers and staying healthy. He corrected them by not always trying to do too much as many of the QBS try to do. There are times to take chances and then others not. He also (knock on wood) has started to stay healthy.
Eli had line problems and looked like crap for years due to it as well as bad weapons around him for years. If they had at least good/average players he would have done more and maybe played several more years.
The bottom line, he has looked good when he generally has had protection, but without at least an average oline the majority of the time, it's hard to judge a QB when the QB gets hit, and sacked all the time.
Wasn't it nearly 70% of his pass plays vs. the Cowboys DJ got hit? And you want him to stand in the pocket longer with that "protection"? I know some people like pain, but that would be unbearable lol.
Again, can agree to disagree. But if/when they fix that oline and if DJ is still here then if he dinks/dunks I'm rt with you. Otherwise the jury is still out.
Here's the thing those examples of HOF QB's are the rare game here and there for those players. Those are the exception for them not the norm. For Daniel Jones they're the norm.
Daniel Jones is a 5th year QB. Not a first or even second year. He's not awful. He'll show you flashes at times but his overall game gives you average production. He's Alex Smith who was on bad teams with little help early in his career then when he finally got help put together some good seasons but was never elite. If you have a team around Jones to prop him up he can put together some good QB seasons (I don't consider 3,200 15 TD's a good season). But I don't think he'll ever be on that elite level.
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on September 24, 2023, 07:28:39 AMThey didn't tag him. He didn't have to sign here.
That's true. But I bet he thought there was the appearance on paper of a somewhat fixed OL. But reality hit. Who knows what the guy really thinks, he's never gonna say it out loud. If I was him, I'd be wondering if I shouldn't have tested the market. If there was any hint of that, the Giants would have tagged him.
Bottom line, they have to get this OL fixed. Sick of saying it. Sick of watching it.
Quote from: miss86 on September 24, 2023, 10:14:32 AMThat's true. But I bet he thought there was the appearance on paper of a somewhat fixed OL. But reality hit. Who knows what the guy really thinks, he's never gonna say it out loud. If I was him, I'd be wondering if I shouldn't have tested the market. If there was any hint of that, the Giants would have tagged him.
Bottom line, they have to get this OL fixed. Sick of saying it. Sick of watching it.
I won't pretend to know what is in his deep thoughts right now, but the bottom line is he could have left, and he chose to stay. I'm sure he thought about it plenty, and I tend to doubt he would change his mind about such a big decision after a 1-2 start with both losses being against elite defenses.
Money is also a significant consideration in all this. We know he was determined to get paid as much as possible (his opening ask was $47mm per and there was a lengthy negotiation), and it's unclear (at best) to me that he could have done better elsewhere. I don't think his stock is higher with anyone than it is with his current team. Look at the Athletic article from just a couple months ago that polled active coaches and GMs around the league. Collectively they didn't have him in even the top 20. These aren't pundits - these are key decision makers on other teams. Would he really have gotten a better contract than this from someone else? We'll never know for sure, but I doubt it, and the evidence doesn't point in that direction.
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on September 24, 2023, 07:28:39 AMThey didn't tag him. He didn't have to sign here.
@miss86 and
@Rambo89 To be accurate, they didn't tag Jones, but Schoen was clear and public that Jones would be tagged if they didn't reach a long-term contract. Miss86 correctly said that the Giants prevented Jones from becoming a free agent.
Quote from: miss86 on September 24, 2023, 10:14:32 AMThat's true. But I bet he thought there was the appearance on paper of a somewhat fixed OL. But reality hit. Who knows what the guy really thinks, he's never gonna say it out loud. If I was him, I'd be wondering if I shouldn't have tested the market. If there was any hint of that, the Giants would have tagged him.
Bottom line, they have to get this OL fixed. Sick of saying it. Sick of watching it.
He needs to worry about his own play and not deflect to those around him as others have. But I get the sense he isn't deflecting to those around him judging by what he has said in public when interviewed.
Quote from: MightyGiants on September 24, 2023, 10:31:27 AM@miss86 and @Rambo89
To be accurate, they didn't tag Jones, but Schoen was clear and public that Jones would be tagged if they didn't reach a long-term contract. Miss86 correctly said that the Giants prevented Jones from becoming a free agent.
If Jones wanted out he would have made that clear. He didn't. He was looking for the best deal to stay with the Giants.
Quote from: Rambo89 on September 24, 2023, 08:18:03 AMHe had his chance to be a FA and turned it down. I think he knows the grass isn't always greener on the other side and not every team would be as patient with him as the Giants have due to having an owner who is obsessed with him succeeding.
Here's the thing those examples of HOF QB's are the rare game here and there for those players. Those are the exception for them not the norm. For Daniel Jones they're the norm.
Daniel Jones is a 5th year QB. Not a first or even second year. He's not awful. He'll show you flashes at times but his overall game gives you average production. He's Alex Smith who was on bad teams with little help early in his career then when he finally got help put together some good seasons but was never elite. If you have a team around Jones to prop him up he can put together some good QB seasons (I don't consider 3,200 15 TD's a good season). But I don't think he'll ever be on that elite level.
Those aren't aberrations, bad lines even kill good qbs, like David Carr who never had a chance in Houston b/c of the line.
Alex Smith was ok/good, DJ is above that and I heard that comparison b4 by Cosell. Alex never had the arm and rarely tried to go deep. And Alex had good teams around him. DJ doesn't have the time, and when he does he slings it even when he had no weapons, and guess what, turnover galore. 3 ints this year none on DJ but his guys who caught or tipped the ball for ints. And how many drops again?
Quote from: DragonSoul on September 24, 2023, 11:08:51 AMThose aren't aberrations, bad lines even kill good qbs, like David Carr who never had a chance in Houston b/c of the line.
Alex Smith was ok/good, DJ is above that and I heard that comparison b4 by Cosell. Alex never had the arm and rarely tried to go deep. And Alex had good teams around him. DJ doesn't have the time, and when he does he slings it even when he had no weapons, and guess what, turnover galore. 3 ints this year none on DJ but his guys who caught or tipped the ball for ints. And how many drops again?
Smith never had Jones's arm but he had much better instincts and pocket awareness than Jones has. Early in Smith's career he was surrounded by bad teams. It wasn't until 2011 that he had a good team around him and that was when his numbers shot up.
Quote from: Rambo89 on September 23, 2023, 07:07:49 PMThat was also the year they signed Burress and the first full season of Eli Manning as their Starting QB. So to say it was because they drafted Snee simply isn't true. Because there were other factors as well that led to that increase in production mainly the QB's play.
The most important factor, which needs to be included here, is Tiki Barber's MVP season (NOTE: despite the fact the league gave it to Seattle's Shaun Alexander) and that 2002 line helped him achieve 1,860 yards rushing that season.
Kareem McKenzie also joined the Giants in 2005 to stabilize the RT position. Shaun O'Hara and Chris Snee were acquired in 2004, David Diehl in 2003, and Luke Petitgout at LT. The O-Line came together and played well for most of the season and considerably better than the previous two seasons.
The young Eli Manning had Barber and Jacobs in the backfield, Toomer and Burress and his primary receivers, Shockey as his TE, and a rebuilt offensive line that was in the process of synergizing into a cohesive unit. It was a surprisingly good season with a terrible ending in getting goose-egged in the Wild-Card round against Carolina.
But the line would continue to develop as Petitgout broke his leg in 2006, prompting Diehl to move to left tackle and bringing in Rich Seubert as left guard. Rich, who had been with the Giants since 2001, and had recovered from a nasty leg fracture in 2003, worked his way into becoming a full-time starter in 2007. That was the final piece of the Super Bowl Offensive Line which would help Eli make history in Super Bowl XVII and terrorize the league in 2008 with the best all-around running game with Earth, Wind and Fire.
Peace!
Quote from: T200 on September 23, 2023, 07:11:43 PMMeh... what goes around, comes around.
Plenty of folks here were gloating when Kadarius Toney had a case of the dropsies and cost KC the game in the season opener.
Then we go 6 quarters before scoring. And now a team is talking smack about our QB after they beat us. Stones and glass houses aren't a good combination.
Don't want them to talk smack? Play better.
EXACTLY!
DO something about it! You punch 'em square in the jaw, and keep doing it, until they don't want to get punched anymore.
It's true the Giants' offense did get smacked around in the end when it became one-dimensional. But I thought the defense, penalties and all, played hard and kept them in it for the better part of three quarters which is all you could ask.
All this other crap about the 49ers saying this or that is kind of funny because the Giants were jawing right back at them during the game. We've seen this before going as far back as Parcells and Walsh in 1984 and again with Parcells and Seifert in 1990. These two teams simply do not like each other, and the 49ers are still pi$$ed off at the Giants for ruining their "three-peat" as well as their 2011 NFC Championship.
This is why the Giants need to get better in order to renew this rivalry which is good for the entire league. I'll tell you it's far better than SF-Dallas which is a BS "beauty pageant," instead of a football rivalry. Besides, the 49ers continue to wipe the floor with the Cowboys anyway so there's no rivalry to see there anyway.
Like them or not, the 49ers are the best team in football right now and only the Chiefs can put them in their place during the Super Bowl. A lot can happen between now and then and it probably will. But nobody out of the NFC can lay a glove on them right now and that include the Iggles. A full game with Brock Purdy will demonstrate that.
Peace!
Quote from: DragonSoul on September 24, 2023, 11:08:51 AMThose aren't aberrations, bad lines even kill good qbs, like David Carr who never had a chance in Houston b/c of the line.
Alex Smith was ok/good, DJ is above that and I heard that comparison b4 by Cosell. Alex never had the arm and rarely tried to go deep. And Alex had good teams around him. DJ doesn't have the time, and when he does he slings it even when he had no weapons, and guess what, turnover galore. 3 ints this year none on DJ but his guys who caught or tipped the ball for ints. And how many drops again?
Simple question for us all to ponder:
If a team offered a 1st round pick straight up for Daniel Jones, would you take it?
If the answer is yes then I think we have our answer as to whether or not he is elite.
Quote from: Trench on September 24, 2023, 02:01:12 PMSimple question for us all to ponder:
If a team offered a 1st round pick straight up for Daniel Jones, would you take it?
If the answer is yes then I think we have our answer as to whether or not he is elite.
Reminds me of the old Abbott and Costello joke. "What would you charge to haunt a house?"
"How many rooms?"
Depends on which team and where the pick is.
Quote from: Ed Vette on September 24, 2023, 02:04:40 PMReminds me of the old Abbott and Costello joke. "What would you charge to haunt a house?"
"How many rooms?"
Depends on which team and where the pick is.
Excellent Ed
I'll just say it's likely the only place people will really defend Jones and find alternate reasons for not being competitive are here or other places like these boards. We will never compete against the top third of the league and the league knows it.
The 49ers are a team that I will be rooting against for a long time. Not that I ever liked them. They've always been a team I hated but now they are almost in Cowboy/Eagle territory of hatred.
Quote from: Trench on September 24, 2023, 02:01:12 PMSimple question for us all to ponder:
If a team offered a 1st round pick straight up for Daniel Jones, would you take it?
If the answer is yes then I think we have our answer as to whether or not he is elite.
I would no question. Depending on the pick it is wither a QB pick or trade ammo to get one. In this scenario the Giants were done with him anyway. Win win in that scenario
Well here goes; Eli and Dimes are apples and oranges
Dimes is a pretty smart guy. But if I'm not mistaken, Eli had a top five of all time Wonderlic score :Faint:
Eli would regularly call audibles under Center or in Shotgun. I read that Eli always had two plays that he could Audible to. Eli was so sly, he would simply look at Plax, and Plax would nod back. And the two would hook up on an Audible. What a magical time that was.
Is Dimes even permitted to call Audibles? I mean, we all have watched him go through his Progressions of late, something he struggled with bigtime his 1st couple of seasons. Well, back to the Thread, Don't you just Luv it when NFL Players make critical remarks behind the veil of anonymity....
What cowards they be. This is America, the land of the Free. But the freedom of speech we are afforded, doesn't allow you to "Yell FIRE in a crowed Movie Theater" (always luved that quote).
Busting Dimes balls because Daboll called a lousy Game. Plus as mentioned, we were without the services of Barkley, Thomas, Breadson and a few others I can't recall. Missing all those Players on O, really tilted the Field against us.
1. Eli Manning enjoyed good protection throughout most of his NFL career, and especially from 2005 to about 2012-2013. It's one of the reasons why the man never got hurt during a decade-and-a-half-long career. That, and his amazing rubber band body.
2. If John Mara and Dave Gettleman thought Daniel Jones was another Manning, they were sorely mistaken. Eli had many faults but he was one of the best improvisers in the history of the game. He could call his own plays 90 percent of the time and if it weren't for the fact that NFL head coaches are control freaks he wouldn't even need to get calls from the sideline. That's not something Jones excels at. Also, he was a risk taker, nothing like DJ. That said, Eli was never much of an athlete and he was slow and awkward when on the run. DJ is a much better athlete and one of the best running QBs in the league. I guess they're both calm players, but Eli always had a lot more personality on and off than field than DJ has ever shown. So I don't rate DJ as highly as Eli, for now at least, but he has his good qualities. He's no Alex Smith by the way. Much better.
Quote from: Trench on September 24, 2023, 02:01:12 PMSimple question for us all to ponder:
If a team offered a 1st round pick straight up for Daniel Jones, would you take it?
If the answer is yes then I think we have our answer as to whether or not he is elite.
2024 1st rounder? Yes, I would. Use the Giants pick to get a QB and the other pick to build the rest of the roster.
Quote from: Trench on September 24, 2023, 02:01:12 PMSimple question for us all to ponder:
If a team offered a 1st round pick straight up for Daniel Jones, would you take it?
If the answer is yes then I think we have our answer as to whether or not he is elite.
They'd never get it, not right now with that contract. It'd more likely be a 2nd and a conditional late pick.
For the record, am I understanding things correctly? It seems some of you are suggesting that Daniel Jones is not the answer at QB, and the Giants still have a need at QB. Is this your position?
Quote from: MightyGiants on September 25, 2023, 01:09:21 PMFor the record, am I understanding things correctly? It seems some of you are suggesting that Daniel Jones is not the answer at QB, and the Giants still have a need at QB. Is this your position?
I won't answer for others but here is my full explanation. While I believe Daniel Jones is a solid average Starting QB, from what I've seen through four plus seasons I don't believe even with the proper supporting cast the Giants will be ever able to win a championship with him as their Starting QB. IMO if you provided him with a good offensive line and a legit #1 WR you would see an increase in performance and production. However, IMO I don't think it would be as much of an increase that would have him on the level of an elite QB.
Daniel Jones is fine for now as the Giants QB. They could do a lot worse than him as their Starting QB. But IMO there will come a point where Schoen will have to make the transition to someone with a higher ceiling and more ability than Jones.
Quote from: Rambo89 on September 23, 2023, 04:21:47 PMIf there's any truth to this it does show with how predictable Jones is in his decision making
Rambo: I see no relationship at all between Jones' decision-making and the issues supposedly raised by some of the 49-er's players (over-paid, for example). Would you have Jones take more chances BECAUSE the Giants are paying him a lot of money? I don't think so. In fact, you pay him a lot to know when NOT to take chances. Bob
Quote from: MightyGiants on September 25, 2023, 01:09:21 PMFor the record, am I understanding things correctly? It seems some of you are suggesting that Daniel Jones is not the answer at QB, and the Giants still have a need at QB. Is this your position?
They do. You either have an elite top 5-6 Qb or you don't, and if you don't you should always be searching for one.
Hypothetical we don't come back from this bad start and we are in a position to draft Caleb Williams, or Drake Maye I don't think there's even a remote possibility that if both or one of those guys are on the board that our front office wouldn't take one of them. Sit them a year to learn, and let DJ play out 2024 before going with the new guy in 2025.