Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: sxdxca38 on Today at 10:20:38 AMWhat is more important to the QB than the WR is the offensive line.

Go and look up the offensive line rankings Tom Brady and Eli Manning both played with in the prime of their careers.

It is no coincidence that both had elite level line play to give them time to dissect a defense.

And both times the Giants beat Brady-led teams in the SB they did it by breaking down his OL.

Quote from: MightyGiants on Today at 09:59:01 AMRic,

I like your post. I will say, to me this question is akin to which tire on a car is the most important.  For an offense to be successful you need a good QB and at least one really good receiving threat (can be a WR or special TE)

And an at least competent OL.  It's a three legged stool.

Quote from: Gmo11 on May 01, 2024, 09:45:17 AMIf Jones stinks as he is very likely to do, and JJ goes on to have a great season with Minnesota (as he is also likely to have with Jefferson over there) Schoen's seat gets a little hotter but I'm not sure they fire him.

What's interesting to me is it would almost be a more fireable offense if the Giants won 7-8 games next year than it would be if they won 3.  If they end up with one of the top 2 or 3 picks in the draft next season he can take his QB and the Giants are set for a while (presuming that QB doesn't also stink which if he does he's fired soon anyway) But if they win 7 games and pick around 9 or 10 in the draft and are no longer in a position to take a QB, when he was in prime position to take one this year, and then JJ looks good in Minnesota...that to me is worse. I could see Mara and Co. asking him what the hell are we supposed to do now? And in this scenario... there's not a really good answer to that question.

i think if it comes down to it, and we MUST make a move up next year, its a better year to do it than it has been in a long time. we have some CORE players. we have 2 young stud pass rushers locked up, an elite dt locked up, a semi elite mlb locked up, a number one corner locked up, a blue chip wr locked up, a franchise LT locked up. hopefully a franchise C locked up.

With all that being said, if there was ever a year in which i could see us trading up with our 1st round, and following 1st round pick, it would be the 2025 draft. not saying we are "a qb away", but we for the first time in a long time have a lot of core, normally high draft capital guys locked up.

Quote from: TONKA56 on May 01, 2024, 09:31:10 AMI really had an awakening when I saw DeVito's pocket awareness vs Jones.

keep in mind, we had a healthy thomas and mostly stabilized line by that point. the games jones played in the oline was in shambles and performing horribly. they got marginally better as the year went on and got relatively healthy. i believe jones would have looked better at that time as a result of that, just as devito and tyrod looked more competent at times.

Quote from: MightyGiants on May 01, 2024, 08:51:22 AM1)  Should Schoen be fired for passing on a good quarterback?

2)  Would you say that QBs perform differently in different situations and the Giants offense minus Nabers would have made it difficult to draft and develop a QB (who wasn't at least an elite prospect)?

3)  Would Jones performing very well, give Schoen and company a pass on one of the 3 later drafted QBs doing well?

2 And 3. theres no empirical evidence that early 1st round qb's shake out. especially guys who were REALLY overdrafted such as in this draft.

2, because as you stated, different guys respond different to different situations. and not having nabers (and especially having our core before nabers), would be so detrimental to any of their growths.

3, because if jones plays well...then we already have our guy, AND we got a blue chip WR. one of the scenarios i had been thinking about (although probably unlikely), would be WHAT IF jones actually goes 4k/25/12 this year, and we have a winning record? then what? do you still cut him end of the year? keep him? then what do you do with your 1st round qb? try to trade him for a mid round pick in 2 years?

i think we did the right thing, all things considered.

Quote from: babywhales on May 02, 2024, 01:44:33 PMJones has to decide to make certain throws and needs to start hitting receivers in stride and/or all together that he has been missing.

Jones is reluctant to throw intermediate and long throws unless it is obviously open.  And despite the line, there are plenty of examples of him missing these on plays without pressure.

There are windows in plays that exist before it is blatantly obvious that the receiver will be open that good quarterbacks will deliver a pass in.  Jones does not take those. Jones needs big windows of separation to pull the trigger or he checks down or runs.  These are the critical throws that when completed alter the defenses single safety approach toward Jones.  Every time he checks down or runs to no avail he reaffirms the defenses approach to bring it and force him over the top.  He is yet to make a defense pay. He must earn the right to see a different defense.

Nabers will probably get the separation that will make Jones comfortable to throw the intermediate and longer throws. In that sense I believe he will help DJ.  He will not make him good and certainly not great.  But he probably will make him functional again.

Nabers, Hyatt and Robinson should be more than enough to provide Jones opportunities to show he can process defensive pre snap fronts and make the correct reads. A healthy Waller with Nabers is more than most QB's are afforded so if they keep Waller there really is not excuse. 

agreed. i was totally on the everyone is ragging on jones train, until i saw the all 22 footage of guys WIDE open while jones was not under pressure and completely missed them and took a useless checkdown. now, i will say - i really cant blame him for not trusting his line enough. hes more worried about getting absolutely flattened than he is about getting the ball to an open guy. thats a tough spot to be in, but he HAS to make the plays that are there, when they are there. I will also point out, if you watch the all 22 film for EVERY QB IN THE LEAGUE, they all miss wide open guys at times. the difference is they at least hit on them SOMETIMES.

bitter that he didnt get the gm job, after years of running AWFUL drafts. gtfoh with this guy. while he's not entirely wrong, it can certainly "elevate" a qb. show me a largely successful qb with the same value oline and weapons jones has had at any point in history. please.

Quote from: MightyGiants on May 02, 2024, 07:08:21 PM12 players officially had their 5th-year options declined:

No. 2: Zach Wilson
No. 3: Trey Lance
No. 11: Justin Fields
No. 15: Mac Jones
No. 16: Zaven Collins
No. 19: Jamin Davis
No. 20: Kadarius Toney
No. 22: Caleb Farley
No. 24: Najee Harris
No. 28: Payton Turner
No. 29: Eric Stokes
No. 32: Joe Tryon-Shoyinka

Alex Leatherwood (No. 17, cut from contract) and Rashod Bateman (No. 27, not enough accrued seasons) were not eligible.

Not sure I understand the part about Bateman not having enough accrued seasons.  He actually signed an extension:

https://ravenswire.usatoday.com/2024/04/30/contract-details-for-rashod-batemans-new-3-year-deal-with-the-ravens/

We got 2 day 1 starters in major positions of need. if these guys pan out its a major home run

I agree with both players mentioned. Jones for the obvious reason. Slayton no longer benefits from being the tallest midget in the receivers room (so to speak). Nabers is an elite talent and Hyatt/Robinson have a ton of upside. If Slayton wants the ball he's going to have to step his game up.

Ojulari is a loser based on the trade for Burns.

Neal is probably a winner, though that remains to be seen.