Should Kafka get the axe?

[B1GBLUE]

Exactly. The fan base is very reactionary. But our owner has been too.

im usually one to look for some type of silver lining or positive. but you cant argue with results. we are beyond god awful. the season is lost already. i do agree with what someone above posted about finally playing with some type of healthy iteration of the line, and with barkley. i dont mind another game or two. but seriously if we keep putting up sub 20 points every week, something has to give. even last year we could barely put up points.

[DaveBrown74]

im usually one to look for some type of silver lining or positive. but you cant argue with results. we are beyond god awful. the season is lost already. i do agree with what someone above posted about finally playing with some type of healthy iteration of the line, and with barkley. i dont mind another game or two. but seriously if we keep putting up sub 20 points every week, something has to give. even last year we could barely put up points.

What was your view on him at the end of the 2022 season?

[nb587]

Bill Parcell's 1st year as a HC was a 3 win season and much of that record was due to his coaching.  The team he inherited was ascending and borderline playoff ready. Not firing Parcells turned out to be the right move (although George Young may have had different thoughts at that time)

[Dgoodmantrublu]

Blaming our OC for idiotic QB play and an OL that has had a different lineup every single game seems really silly to me. Just one year after he was getting head coach interviews. Get him a real QB and some OL stability next year and get back to me.

[BluesCruz]

I'd love to see what he is as a coordinator when he has his starting quarterback healthy, Barkley healthy and a mediocre offensive line. In all honesty I don't think Andy Reid would be getting much more out of this offense right now.

I disagree

Andy has a nose for TDs.... Daboll and Kafka not so much

[Dgoodmantrublu]

Giants had one of the top red zone offenses in the league last season. This year has been a disaster. That is on the QB for playing like a cowardly idiot and the OL changing every single week. But sure. Blame the coaches. It is the easy thing to do.

I disagree

Andy has a nose for TDs.... Daboll and Kafka not so much

[T200]

I voted no.

I think the Giants need to move away from this model of constantly always firing people every two years.

I don't think it's without merit.

Last year, people were very worried that Kafka was leaving for a HC job and we were lucky he didn't get one.  Now, I'm reading this stuff.

Last year he created game plans that Jones could be successful in. This year he seems like he can't adapt to what his players can and can't do.

[Philosophers]

How do you fire an OC when the HC is offensively minded and approves plays, schemes, formations, etc?

How about firing poor position coaches instead?

[EDjohnst1981]

There's been excuses all over the place regarding the offense from the line, to AT and JMS injury to Barkley being out, to Jones being pressured too quickly.

Why doesn't Kafka get the same raft of excuses?

He's working with the same players as the rest of the O?

I think the Giants have to stop sacking coaches after 2 years.

[Dgoodmantrublu]

Because teams adjusted and Jones can't operate outside of that simple structure. He can't process and consistently falls for trap coverages. That is not on the OC. The QB is a football idiot.

I don't think it's without merit.

Last year he created game plans that Jones could be successful in. This year he seems like he can't adapt to what his players can and can't do.

[DaveBrown74]

I don't think it's without merit.

Perhaps not Tim, but I think the problems of this franchise are multi-dimensional and run very deep, and so just blaming and replacing the coach every two years and expecting everything to get better after that is a knee-jerk, surface type move that may be avoiding the bigger issues. My hope is that, despite the current situation this year, we do have the right people in place now. Schoen, though he has made mistakes, strikes me as a competent, hard-working, intelligent GM who has a holistic approach and will continue to improve the organization from top to bottom. And I still like Daboll myself, which I realize is not a popular opinion right now.

Over the past decade I think we have had real issues with the scouting department (likely improved now under Schoen), the training/medical department and the infrastructure therein (clearly still a huge issue), player development (appears to be improving) and to some extent ownership meddling (likely still an issue but possibly improving). We have also clearly done a terrible job hiring coaches and GMs prior to the current regime, which is 100% ownership's fault. So that's actually part of my earlier comment. By wanting to move away from the model of gutting the coaching staff every two years, I'm very much saying we need a more robust hiring process when in fact we do hire. Not just calling Accorsi and Charlie Casserly and being told to hire Dave Gettleman, and then that's the end of it. Or just naming McAdoo to the HC position without having a serious interview process with other candidates. Thankfully, I think for the first time since his father passed away, Mara took the hiring process much more seriously this last time.

I do think we have shown some evidence of evolving on all of this stuff in very recent years, but clearly it is still an ongoing process.

[T200]

Because teams adjusted and Jones can't operate outside of that simple structure. He can't process and consistently falls for trap coverages. That is not on the OC. The QB is a football idiot.

Kinda harsh. I guess he hit his head over the summer?   

[T200]

Perhaps not Tim, but I think the problems of this franchise are multi-dimensional and run very deep, and so just blaming and replacing the coach every two years and expecting everything to get better after that is a knee-jerk, surface type move that may be avoiding the bigger issues. My hope is that, despite the current situation this year, we do have the right people in place now. Schoen, though he has made mistakes, strikes me as a competent, hard-working, intelligent GM who has a holistic approach and will continue to improve the organization from top to bottom. And I still like Daboll myself, which I realize is not a popular opinion right now.

Over the past decade I think we have had real issues with the scouting department (likely improved now under Schoen), the training/medical department and the infrastructure therein (clearly still a huge issue), player development (appears to be improving) and to some extent ownership meddling (likely still an issue but possibly improving). We have also clearly done a terrible job hiring coaches and GMs prior to the current regime, which is 100% ownership's fault. So that's actually part of my earlier comment. By wanting to move away from the model of gutting the coaching staff every two years, I'm very much saying we need a more robust hiring process when in fact we do hire. Not just calling Accorsi and Charlie Casserly and being told to hire Dave Gettleman, and then that's the end of it. Or just naming McAdoo to the HC position without having a serious interview process with other candidates. Thankfully, I think for the first time since his father passed away, Mara took the hiring process much more seriously this last time.

I do think we have shown some evidence of evolving on all of this stuff in very recent years, but clearly it is still an ongoing process.

The 2-year thing is more of a coincidence than anything else. And I'm not advocating to replace Daboll. Just Kafka.

I also don't see it as knee-jerk. I'm 100% with you that there are a gaggle of problems. I'm of the mind that once we identify a problem, it needs to be addressed. Kafka is one of them. Jones is another. Fix the problem as quickly as possible. I, for one, am not a fan of blowing the whole thing up. Some things are working, as much as we know now. Others aren't. I'm cool with having Daboll call the offense until he finds a replacement for Kafka.

[DaveBrown74]

The 2-year thing is more of a coincidence than anything else. And I'm not advocating to replace Daboll. Just Kafka.

I also don't see it as knee-jerk. I'm 100% with you that there are a gaggle of problems. I'm of the mind that once we identify a problem, it needs to be addressed. Kafka is one of them. Jones is another. Fix the problem as quickly as possible. I, for one, am not a fan of blowing the whole thing up. Some things are working, as much as we know now. Others aren't. I'm cool with having Daboll call the offense until he finds a replacement for Kafka.

I think we're on the same page philosophically. I'm not advocating holding on to clearly hopeless, non-performing employees or players just for the hell of it. I'm not sold that Kafka has to go, although you know my views on the QB situation. Either way though I agree with the broad points you're making.

[T200]

I think we're on the same page philosophically. I'm not advocating holding on to clearly hopeless, non-performing employees or players just for the hell of it. I'm not sold that Kafka has to go, although you know my views on the QB situation. Either way though I agree with the broad points you're making.

There were questions about who was responsible for the 2nd-half play calling in the Arizona game. That, coupled with the offensive futility the 2 prior games, gave me the feeling that something was not right with Kafka. After 8 weeks, we have the absolute worst offense in Giants history.

I'm not suggesting that we're going to light up the scoreboard as soon as he cleans out his office. Players still  need to execute. But the OC needs to call plays to put them in the best position to succeed. And I haven't seen that all year.