Big Blue Huddle

So to reward the hard-working men and women that help make it possible


https://x.com/byajperez/status/1786411918111973738


    

I thought this one was pretty good

https://x.com/TomPelissero/status/1786415721834045589


https://x.com/NFL_DovKleiman/status/1786417118797238746


https://x.com/RapSheet/status/1786416185115922647

Based on free agency and the draft, which Giants still on the roster came out as winners and which ones came out as losers?


I will give two examples, to better illustrate the question

1) Winner-  Daniel Jones, the Giants didn't draft his replacement

2) Loser-  Slayton is likely the odd man out once Nabers is a starter

Who makes each of your lists?

By all reports, the Giants made a strong effort to trade up to draft Maye but that simply wasn't possible because the Pats wanted him as their quarterback.

So here is my question.

Are you upset because:

A) the Giants didn't ignore their board and drafted one of the lesser-graded QBs on their board (in other words, they should have "reached" for a QB)

B) You disagree with the Giants' grades they had on the remaining 3 QBs, at least one of them had a grade that justified drafting them 6th overall (passing on a blue chip prospect like Nabers)

C) Neither A nor B, you are just unhappy with the circumstances (no "mistakes" made) that had the Giants come out of the draft without a new QB

You had OJB, then Toney.  Neither seemed to be able to make a clean break with the team and the fans.  Well Barkley just joined that group

QuotePhiladelphia Eagles running back Saquon Barkley joined his teammate, wide receiver AJ Brown, courtside at the New York Knicks-Philadelphia 76ers game on Thursday night.

When cameras caught him cheering on Philly, Giants fans took to X, formerly known as Twitter, and bashed the team's former superstar.

https://x.com/saquon/status/1786244589277352404

https://x.com/saquon/status/1786248843819876695


https://giantswire.usatoday.com/2024/05/03/philadelphia-eagles-saquon-barkley-claps-back-angry-new-york-giants-fans-go-birds/?taid=6634c2a37de5b70001af7bbd&utm_campaign=trueanthem&utm_medium=trueanthem&utm_source=twitter

This topic has been merged into Talkin Giants- Giants Offensive UDFA Review.

12 players officially had their 5th-year options declined:

No. 2: Zach Wilson
No. 3: Trey Lance
No. 11: Justin Fields
No. 15: Mac Jones
No. 16: Zaven Collins
No. 19: Jamin Davis
No. 20: Kadarius Toney
No. 22: Caleb Farley
No. 24: Najee Harris
No. 28: Payton Turner
No. 29: Eric Stokes
No. 32: Joe Tryon-Shoyinka

Alex Leatherwood (No. 17, cut from contract) and Rashod Bateman (No. 27, not enough accrued seasons) were not eligible.

Kevin Cole

@Unexpected_Pts newsletter/pod. Previously Data Scientist @PFF, Director of Data & Analytics @RotoGrinders
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https://x.com/DanSchneierNFL/status/1786054520390266961

Marc Ross, the man who oversaw the Giants' drafts for 11 years (his last draft was just graded in the 3-year draft grade thread), gave his take on the Giants drafting Nabers.


https://x.com/NFLTotalAccess/status/1784652442338197696


Carl Banks addressed his comments (Carl has had his disputes with Ross in the past).  Banks pointed out that Ross didn't directly say Daniel Jones was a bad QB.   Banks also pointed out, that if Nabers is as advertised, it will definitely help Daniel Jones (along with the other WRs)

Banks also disputed Ross' claim that the Giants drafted Nabers to try and fix Daniel Jones.  Banks said that Nabers was drafted because the Giants needed a modern offense, and that starts with at least one elite receiver on your roster.   Banks felt Jones was on his own (DJ will sink or swim on his own).   If Jones wants to stay with NYG he is going to have to earn it himself.  He did suggest he expects and improves Jones, but the key is Jones getting comfortable that his O-line is able to protect him.

I will say that Marc Ross tests one of my core tenets.   I have a strong preference for seeking out former NFL people to hear their opinions and views on football.   In general, I feel those views and opinions are more valid and tend to be better than other commentators.

Yet, what do I do with someone like Marc Ross, who I witnessed as terrible at his job for 11 years?  The man even has a degree from Princeton, so he is certainly not stupid.

To date, I simply take the approach that I take with most of the true experts.  Listen to what they have to say (while giving them the benefit of the doubt), but don't take their word as gospel.  They need to support and lay out sound arguments for why they hold the opinions they do (especially, hot takes).

I will say, I don't disagree with his assertion big picture.   If Jones doesn't have it in him to be a franchise QB, Nabers will not change or fix that.   On the other hand, if Jones isn't as bad as some people think, an elite QB can really elevate DJ's game.  Ultimately, time will tell.

Perhaps the best way to get up to speed on the undrafted rookies.  Today, they cover the offensive players.

First I was intrigued by this story Matt Waldman told about Lock

Quote"I remember evaluating him [Lock] and saying he looked like a kid who's very talented who at some point in his during his high school career and college career he was probably told by outside quarterback coaches, by coaches in his program things that he could work on to become the best quarterback he could be and get more ready for the NFL. When he came to the league Payton Manning called him up and said anything I can do for you, you let me know. It's easy for me to say as a 54-year-old man in hindsight what I would have liked to have done if I were able to be in Drew Lock's situation at that point because I probably would have said with the wisdom I have now, which is unfair to Drew, but would have been 'can I live in your garage, do chores for you, whatever I need to do and basically spend as much time as possible reviewing film with you and having you reviewing my game and you showing me what conceptually I need to get better at and work and how to work at my craft technically and conceptually to get better.' But from what I was told is that he said thanks and didn't call him back.

"Then, three years later when Teddy Bridgewater was brought to town to compete for his job with him that's when he called Payton Manning."

As it turned out, Lock's father confirmed the accuracy of Waldman's initial collegiate scouting report on Lock.

"His dad told a sideline reporter, I love my son he's a great kid he's a good guy but we've been telling him for years here are little details you need to work on, here are things that you need to get better at when you get to the NFL this is going to be different and he just smiled and nodded, but he didn't work at those things and it's kind of catching up to him. You can see in Seattle when he had some nice games, you kind of get the impression that it's kind of clicked in his head that, oh yeah maybe this is how I need to work. Doesn't make him a bad kid, doesn't make him a bad player, it just means that he had to get better at his job and maybe didn't know how, and maybe it didn't register what was being told to him because it's easy for people to tell you the NFL is a lot tougher.

"I share that because the important point of this is that a lot of players go through this and the NFL doesn't support that well because they force players in immediately."

I went back and studied Lock's scouting reports coming out of college.  He has a strong arm and excelled at the deep ball (his shorter throws less so).  He was compared to Matt Stafford.  Lock has arm talent, but his mechanics are inconsistent, and he has some questionable.

I studied his stats (not particularly impressive).  I read up on his days with the Broncos.  Most faulted Lock as well as the Broncos (for failing to support him or playing to his strengths).

I looked at Lock's stats in Seattle (admittedly a bit of a limited data set with 2 full games and two part games) and compared that to Geno Smith-  Lock's stats were lower than Smith's)

Daboll has a reputation of a reputation for being a bit of a QB whisperer.   Combine that with Lock seeming to understand what it takes to be an NFL QB (he should as he turns 28 in November) there is a chance he could reach the ceiling (a good starter) with the Giants.   A lot will hinge on Lock and his ability to improve his mechanics and decision-making (his TD-to-INT ratio is less than ideal).

I think if Lock is pressed into starter duty there is maybe a 10% chance he could be the next Geno Smith or Goff who finds his groove with a team other than the one that drafted him.

If you are interested in learning more about him, here's a good breakdown by Nick Falato





Link to the Waldman quote

https://www.bigblueview.com/2024/4/5/24121878/nfl-draft-matt-waldman-on-the-2024-qb-class-the-development-fallacy-and-much-more#:~:text=%E2%80%9CI%20remember%20evaluating%20him%20%5BLock,he%20could%20be%20and%20get

https://x.com/nflnetwork/status/1785445575351243201

The New York Giants today signed free agent defensive back David Long Jr., who is entering his sixth season in the NFL.
Long, 5-11 and 196 pounds, was originally a third-round draft choice by the Rams in 2019. He spent his first four seasons with Los Angeles before playing for three teams (Raiders, Panthers, and Packers) in 2023.
Overall, Long has appeared in 66 regular-season games with 12 starts. His career numbers include 97 tackles, eight passes defensed, and an interception. He has also played in six postseason games with one start, which occurred in the Rams' victory over the Bengals in Super Bowl LVI.

https://www.giants.com/news/david-long-jr-defensive-back-los-angeles-rams-raiders-panthers-packers-nfl-free-agency

I always look forward to these podcasts as Carl is a wealth of both football knowledge, and he is about as inside the building as an insider can get



Carl Banks and Bob Papa are back on the mic discussing the 2024 NFL Draft and its first-round pick, Malik Nabers. They dive into his potential impact on quarterback Daniel Jones and the rest of the offense. Carl highlights the team's strategic offseason moves, including addressing critical areas such as the defensive backfield, wide receivers, and offensive line and adding depth to the running back room. The episode concludes with some NY Rangers talk, LGR

https://x.com/clt_ny/status/1785749634545000448

https://x.com/GiantInsider/status/1785725747320996267

DJ has an injury guarantee in his contract for 2025.  That fact may push the Giants to bench DJ in the second half if the season is out of hand (as other NFL teams dealing with such guarantees have done).  Here is the explanation by Dan Duggan


Dan Duggan
@DDuggan21
I'll try to answer this thoroughly and hopefully it eliminates the confusion. There are two guarantees in play, which I think is leading to most of the confusion.

• He has a $30M base salary in 2025. $23M of that salary was guaranteed for injury *only* when he signed. So if he has an injury that prevents him from passing a physical and they cut him, he's due that $23M. There's no deadline attached to that. Whenever they cut him, if he can't pass a physical, he's due the $23M.

• If he's on the roster on the fifth day of the 2025 league year (mid-March), $12M of that salary becomes *fully* guaranteed. So if they cut him for any reason after that date, he's due the $12M.

• So the two guarantees collide if he suffers a serious injury that will prevent him from passing a physical next March and they want to cut him. They could cut him and eat the full $23M or they could hold onto him, eat the $12M and then cut him when he's healthy to save the additional $11M.

They could try to get him to waive the injury guarantee, but I'm not sure why he would. You negotiate that into the contract to protect yourself from this very scenario.



https://x.com/DDuggan21/status/1785674778239525322

1)  Should Schoen be fired for passing on a good quarterback?

2)  Would you say that QBs perform differently in different situations and the Giants offense minus Nabers would have made it difficult to draft and develop a QB (who wasn't at least an elite prospect)?

3)  Would Jones performing very well, give Schoen and company a pass on one of the 3 later drafted QBs doing well?

https://x.com/talkingiants/status/1785420346864140749?s=46&t=1vcQIN8GqF5J2oLdxEVEJQ

Schoen has clearly indicated that there isn't a quarterback competition.  Yet, you have Garafolo suggesting Lock might be able to compete.  Will Lock be the starter or could there be a QB competition in camp?

https://twitter.com/awthentik/status/1785074659907584277

Now you have this:


Ryan Dunleavy
@rydunleavy
Theres more smoke around Drew Lock being #Giants starting QB over Daniel Jones, after #Seahawks GM Jon Schneider's comments earlier

@MoveTheSticks
podcast: 'I believe Drew Lock has a really good shot of winning that job.'

'They were comparing Daniel Jones and Drew Lock — emphasis on Drew Lock — to the QBs that were going to be there (in the draft) and I think the line for them was Drake Maye.'

This runs VERY contradictory to what Joe Schoen is saying publicly about Daniel Jones. They havent even opened it up to competition yet. But privately?

Remember, Daniel Jeremiah was ahead of the curve on Giants not drafting JJ McCarthy, too

https://x.com/rydunleavy/status/1785357074852970740

Says Nabers is in a class by himself higher than MHJ and Odunze

https://x.com/The33rdTeamFB/status/1785348477892894826

If he is cut or retires, the Giants would free up $6,707,500 in cap space.  That money could be used to add a veteran or two or even just be rolled over to the next season.   

In light of drafting Theo Johnson, is there any reason that the Giants should allow Waller more time to decide if he wants to continue to play football?

I appreciate that many fans want the Giants to add a QB, but that isn't what this poll is about.  This is your biggest (non-QB, if so inclined) area of concern.  Where would you like to see the Giants add more talent?

In the 2022 offseason, most considered Daniel Jones a dead man walking.   

Consider:

1) The Giants passed on exercising DJ's 5th-year option

2) The Giants signed Tyrod Taylor who many fans claimed was as good or better than Jones (he did have a Pro Bowl to his resume)

3) Jones had injury issues and needed to prove he could stay healthy

4) Worst of all, Jones was going to have to prove himself behind a mediocre, at best, O-line with no significant receiving targets.  He would get a bit of a tangential boost from Barkley (who already lost something after his major knee injury)

Everyone was writing Daniel Jones off, there was much talk about the QBs in the draft. Only Daniel Jones decided he wasn't ready to be dead and buried.  He dragged his under-talented team to the playoffs and beat the 13-4 Vikings in the hostile Minnesota stadium.  He earned himself a solid contract.

From Daniel's perspective, this is just deja vue all over again.   I am not suggesting that Jones will stay healthy and knock it out of the park.  I am just suggesting we shouldn't be shocked if Jones plays like a franchise QB and takes the team to the playoffs again while at least staying healthy enough.

I hope Phil still does podcasting, as I think he still has things of value to say


https://x.com/PhilSimmsQB/status/1784943898923524327

McGinn's series with quotes from NFL scouts has always been a favorite of mine.  With so much stuff posted during the draft, these often get buried.   I just finished rereading all of them, and I found them to be enjoyable exercises.

2. MALIK NABERS, Louisiana State (6-0, 199, 4.44, 1): Third-year junior. "He's that all-around, well-polished, freakishly athletic individual," said one scout. "His traits just jump off the tape at you." His pro day workout included a 42-inch vertical jump and 10-9 broad jump. "I absolutely love watching Malik Nabers," a second scout said. "He's not your typical size for an 'X' but he has the speed, the separation, routes and hands. Where he separates himself is run after catch. That's what makes him such an exciting player. CeeDee Lamb is a little bit bigger; Nabers is more sudden and (has) better top-end speed." A third scout graded him on a par with Justin Jefferson, another LSU product. "He's powerful, he's explosive and he can win at every level of route running, which makes him special as a high-floor player," a fourth scout said. "He can run after the catch. He can run intermediate routes. He can track the deep ball." Started 30 of 38 games. Finished with 189 catches for 3,003 (15.9) and 21 TDs. "He's not Harrison," a fifth scout said. "If you see that just ignore it. He's more of the D.J. Moore kind of player. Thick running back build. He's a good player, a really good player. I don't think he has elite ball skills." From Youngsville, La. "He is what he is right now," said a sixth scout. "He's topped out. Against the Alabama corners his production all came against zone coverage over the middle. When he was manned up he struggled. But he has straight dog in him once he catches the ball."

1. TYLER NUBIN, Minnesota (6-1, 205, 4.61, 2-3): High-school corner moved to safety once he reached the Twin Cities. "They played him (in the box) but if you watch him covering on special teams you know he can play in space," one scout said. "He is a special-teams demon. Nubin gives you more than (Kamren) Kinchens because he could be that big nickel. He plays with a physical mindset. He's better than Kinchens in natural tight end matchups in man coverage or as a general slot guy. He's got great ball skills, too. For a guy you don't see going backwards very often he's always around the ball." Ran an unexpectedly slow 40. "That hurt him," a second scout said. "Instincts are his thing. He's quick to trigger. Better in zone than man. Physical around the line of scrimmage. Little tight in his backpedal but uses his size well to play physical and doesn't give up separation much. Struggles to open his hips and change direction, but nothing crazy. Can track (the deep ball). Looks to lay a hit. I think he should have come out last year but I still think he's a pretty good football player. Yes, he'll be a starter. I would say second round but he would have been a first-rounder last year." Just 10 reps on the bench press. "He doesn't have great range but he can do the interchangeable stuff," a third scout said. "He'll be a good teams player. He's had production on the ball." Started 43 of 55 games, finishing with 207 tackles (4 ½ for loss), 13 picks and 24 passes defensed. From St. Charles, Ill.

10. ANDRU PHILLIPS, Kentucky (5-10 ½, 192, 4.48, 3): Fourth-year junior with a 42-inch vertical jump and an 11-3 broad jump. "He's excellent," one scout said. "His movement skills, his toughness, his awareness and production ... to me, this guy's a slam-dunk starter. He can play inside and outside – probably better in the slot. He's so fluid. You'd be good with him as your No. 2 corner moving forward." Started 16 of 38 games over four seasons. "He has a compact build," a second scout said. "More of a nickel. Not the greatest speed. Quicker than he is fast. Kind of a mid-range cover guy than deep." Finished with 82 tackles (three for loss), no picks and 10 passes defensed. "He's a little bit under the radar but a pretty good player," a third scout said. From Mauldin, S.C.

4. THEO JOHNSON, Penn State (6-6, 261, 4.62, 3-4): Helped himself at the combine with a solid 40, a 39 ½-inch vertical jump and a position-best short shuttle of 4.19. "I'd rather take a shot on him than Sanders," one scout said. "He's on the upside. He's got assertiveness with his blocking but he's not consistent with his blocking. He can make hard, adjusting catches but he can't run after the catch. He doesn't make people miss in space." Started 29 of 45 games over four years, finishing with 77 receptions for 938 (12.2) and 12 TDs. "He's a little bit intriguing," said another scout. "He's a big guy. He's fast. He'll give you effort as a blocker. He's much improved in that area. He's got ball skills. He's a really clunky mover, a really unnatural route runner. He's Canadian, so he's raw. I thought he might go back to school. If somebody really wants one they might take him in the third but I don't think he's worth that." From Windsor, Ontario.

12. TYRONE TRACY, Purdue (5-11, 209, 4.48, 4-5): Started 16 of his 38 games as a wide receiver at Iowa from 2018-'21. Had 36 receptions in 2019. Team captain in '21. Transferred to Purdue in 2022 and was a backup wideout before moving to running back last year and flourishing. "Love him," one scout said. "Change of pace guy. Did really well in his first year really playing running back." Posted 113 of his career total of 146 rushes in 2023 when he led the Big Ten in yards per carry (6.4). Finished with 947 (6.5) and 10 TDs to go with 113 receptions. "Kind of new to the position so he's feeling it out," a second scout said. "His vision keeps him alive. Like a No. 3 running back who contributes on special teams. Not a powerful back but he's grown into that body and stays on his feet and fights for extra yardage. Has enough speed to get outside. Struggled in pass pro." His 3-cone time of 6.81 led the position. From Indianapolis.

This is one of the better one-on-one sports interviews I have heard.  You get a real sense of Tracy, the person.

https://x.com/Doug_Analytics/status/1785005287708979604