QuoteAppearing on The Wyman and Bob Show, Schneider claimed that the Giants sold Lock on the possibility of winning the starting job over Daniel Jones.
"They basically sold him on the opportunity to compete to be the starter," Schneider said. "And he felt like it was the right opportunity. He looked at Baker Mayfield's opportunity last year and felt that this could be something similar."
The only problem? That never happened.
During his introductory press conference, Lock told reporters that Giants brass made it abundantly clear that Jones would remain the starter and he would serve as the backup.
"Daniel Jones is the starter of this team. That's been conveyed to me," Lock said. "Now, I need to come in and push Daniel to be the best that he can be. That's the role that I played for Geno (Smith), that's the role I played for Teddy (Bridgewater)."
Jeff Howe of The Athletic reports that like Lock, the Giants informed Wilson that Jones would remain the starter and there was no guarantee he'd receive significant playing time.
Lock, indeed, was not offered a chance to compete for the starting job, according to a league source. The Giants did sell him on the idea of working with head coach Brian Daboll, who has a quarterback-friendly system that led to Jones' best season in 2022.
There's a pattern here, too. The Giants had an exploratory meeting last week with Russell Wilson, and the team didn't make any promises about playing time, according to league sources. That's been the Giants' approach as they've built toward the 2024 season with Jones as the expected starter.
Despite outside speculation, Giants general manager Joe Schoen has been remarkably transparent about the team's stance on Jones. When he's healthy, he's the starter and their faith in him has not waned.
https://sports.yahoo.com/giants-told-russell-wilson-daniel-110254704.html (https://sports.yahoo.com/giants-told-russell-wilson-daniel-110254704.html)
Schoen is playing the long game. I like it.
Quote from: T200 on March 18, 2024, 12:42:21 PMSchoen is playing the long game. I like it.
What long game?
Watch Jones fall on his face yet again as we miss the playoffs again? :boooo:
If that is the long game, serve me up a short one please
Tommy should start and Locke back him up
Jones should be traded ala Denver/Wilson
I have no idea why Schoen would say that. Jones has not shown enough to have that degree of confidence. While not a blatantly open competition, at least give guys a chance to compete. Hell, Fields should have been considered too.
All this said, I would now be surprised if the Giants went QB. I know this all could be a smokescreen, and sure, a new draft pick could easily replace Tommy Cutlets, but I don't get the idea of signing a young vet to come here, even on a short contract, if we are going QB in the draft.
As a coach you lose moral authority with your players when you anoint a guy as the starter when his play hasn't earned that level of respect. There isn't a single guy in the locker room that wants a repeat of last year.
What has Jones shown thus far in has career that the staff and front office are united that it's job? The guy has thrown for more than 15 touchdowns in a season once in his career and that was his rookie season. The love they show him is grotesquely disproportionate to his impact on the field. IMHO it's a sign of a toxic culture that starts with the owner and works its was down through every aspect of the organization.
Quote from: madbadger on March 19, 2024, 11:49:35 AMWhat has Jones shown thus far in has career that the staff and front office are united that it's job? The guy has thrown for more than 15 touchdowns in a season once in his career and that was his rookie season. The love they show him is grotesquely disproportionate to his impact on the field. IMHO it's a sign of a toxic culture that starts with the owner and works its was down through every aspect of the organization.
It is very very strange the love for Jones the player. He really has shown nothing spectacular or even close in his five years with the Giant. Am I missing something? I'm still waiting for him to beat a good team...or even have a decent game against a good team. Is it all about beating an average Minnesota team in the playoffs? If so, why wasn't the following game thrown into the mix when Jones was dreadful against a real good team? The whole thing is bizarre. Is it because he was a first round pick (even though the guy who picked him is gone) that the owner doesn't want to admit a mistake? I just don't see anything close to greatness in his game. And now with the injuries???
Quote from: BluesCruz on March 19, 2024, 09:55:07 AMWhat long game?
Watch Jones fall on his face yet again as we miss the playoffs again? :boooo:
If that is the long game, serve me up a short one please
Tommy should start and Locke back him up
Jones should be traded ala Denver/Wilson
https://x.com/_MLFootball/status/1769903717464023077?s=20
Quote from: katkavage on March 19, 2024, 12:01:55 PMIt is very very strange the love for Jones the player. He really has shown nothing spectacular or even close in his five years with the Giant. Am I missing something? I'm still waiting for him to beat a good team...or even have a decent game against a good team. Is it all about beating an average Minnesota team in the playoffs? If so, why wasn't the following game thrown into the mix when Jones was dreadful against a real good team? The whole thing is bizarre. Is it because he was a first round pick (even though the guy who picked him is gone) that the owner doesn't want to admit a mistake? I just don't see anything close to greatness in his game. And now with the injuries???
He looks the part, is non-offensive (read: milquetoast), and people don't want to have to start over at QB. He "flashes" (like any other player good enough to make it to the NFL). I really don't think it's that complex.
It also seems obvious that Mara has a great personal affinity for him, possibly because he reminds him of Eli in a lot of ways. I get it - he likes the polite, preppy, clean-cut, aw shucks, southern gentleman from a nice family thing, but they're two completely different players, and this is the part that seems lost on him.
I'm sure Mara really appreciates these personal qualities that harken back to the athletes of yesteryear versus the entitled, diva'd out, drama queens and thugs of today. I get all that. The problem is your objective needs to be doing everything you can to win games in the most competitive sports league in the country and probably the world. That should be the guiding principle, not trying to find a husband for your granddaughter or a nice kid to be a summer intern in your office for a couple months. This is serious stuff here.
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on March 19, 2024, 04:01:58 PMIt also seems obvious that Mara has a great personal affinity for him, possibly because he reminds him of Eli in a lot of ways. I get it - he likes the polite, preppy, clean-cut, aw shucks, southern gentleman from a nice family thing, but they're two completely different players, and this is the part that seems lost on him.
I'm sure Mara really appreciates these personal qualities that harken back to the athletes of yesteryear versus the entitled, diva'd out, drama queens and thugs of today. I get all that. The problem is your objective needs to be doing everything you can to win games in the most competitive sports league in the country and probably the world. That should be the guiding principle, not trying to find a husband for your granddaughter or a nice kid to be a summer intern in your office for a couple months. This is serious stuff here.
In my previous professional life I had to fire a man I liked and respected because of repeated performance issues. It sucked and I felt awful about it for a long time but I had an obligation to the other members of my team to nit make their lives miserable because they had to carry a guy who wasn't pulling his weight. You can like, respect and admire another human while simultaneously holding them to a standard. For the life of me ai don't understand why Mara will desperately hold on to Jones but he was quick to fire Coughlin. If anyone in the history of the franchise that earned the right to have a couple bad years it was Coughlin.
Quote from: madbadger on March 19, 2024, 04:59:08 PMIn my previous professional life I had to fire a man I liked and respected because of repeated performance issues. It sucked and I felt awful about it for a long time but I had an obligation to the other members of my team to nit make their lives miserable because they had to carry a guy who wasn't pulling his weight. You can like, respect and admire another human while simultaneously holding them to a standard. For the life of me ai don't understand why Mara will desperately hold on to Jones but he was quick to fire Coughlin. If anyone in the history of the franchise that earned the right to have a couple bad years it was Coughlin.
Very good point on Coughlin. Mara has been all over the place with his penchant for playing favorites and getting emotional about certain individuals based on personal feelings, family ties, recommendations from octogenarians who haven't had an NFL job in at least a decade, and other past associations instead of actual performance and accomplishments. That sort of thing can really be corrosive to the morale of a competitive organization, as you aptly articulate regarding your personal example as a manager.
I hope Mara is able to see all this and has the self-awareness to acknowledge it and try to work on it.
He probably couldnt promise he can start
I think if jones keeps doing his check down
They would not be shy to put in Drew Lock.
Quote from: ViewFromSection129 on March 19, 2024, 10:25:02 AMI have no idea why Schoen would say that.
Because he doesn't want anyone to know what he really thinks heading into the draft? Unlike a certain someone.
Quote from: katkavage on March 19, 2024, 12:01:55 PMIt is very very strange the love for Jones the player. He really has shown nothing spectacular or even close in his five years with the Giant. Am I missing something? I'm still waiting for him to beat a good team...or even have a decent game against a good team. Is it all about beating an average Minnesota team in the playoffs? If so, why wasn't the following game thrown into the mix when Jones was dreadful against a real good team? The whole thing is bizarre. Is it because he was a first round pick (even though the guy who picked him is gone) that the owner doesn't want to admit a mistake? I just don't see anything close to greatness in his game. And now with the injuries???
Jones checks a lot of boxes that the Giants hold in very high regard. That's just the way it is. :-??
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on March 19, 2024, 05:17:07 PMVery good point on Coughlin. Mara has been all over the place with his penchant for playing favorites and getting emotional about certain individuals based on personal feelings, family ties, recommendations from octogenarians who haven't had an NFL job in at least a decade, and other past associations instead of actual performance and accomplishments. That sort of thing can really be corrosive to the morale of a competitive organization, as you aptly articulate regarding your personal example as a manager.
I hope Mara is able to see all this and has the self-awareness to acknowledge it and try to work on it.
Hey Jeff,
To be fair, I don't believe Mara was quick to fire Tom Coughlin; the latter had 3 straight losing seasons:
7-9
6-10
6-10
Ironically, he had the exact same final 3 seasons in Jax from 2000 to 2002. In both cases, I believe there was sufficient cause to fire Coach Coulign. Although, I would have retained him in both scenarios as it should be obvious to everyone (it's not) that coaches, even HoF coaches, need talent to be successful. He simply ran out of talent at both places...
Also, I cannot assign 100% fault to Mara regarding the DJ situation; I believe the latter is still on the roster as a victim of circumstance, or more accurately stated, limited opportunities. I am 100% confident the Giants would have replaced DJ in 2022, when they had two top 7 picks; however, there was no opportunities as the 2022 DRAFT was simply voided of tangible QB prospects. It was arguably the worst year in the past two decades to posses two top 10 picks. That same year, the Giants enjoyed a lot of luck during the first half the of the season, making the Playoffs. As a byproduct, they earned the 24th pick and were again not in position to draft a QB. The majority of the fan base was also fooled by the 2022 season; it would have been a marketing nightmare to enter the 2023 season without a viable QB. I saw no other option than to retain DJ; I also don't view the contract as a catastrophe, thanks to the 2-year escape clause. What does bother me is the three meaningless wins the Giants collected under Tommy D, which once again, places us outside the range of the true QB prospects. In closing, poor luck and circumstances are more to blame than John Mara.
Telling a player they're guaranteed to start and telling them they have the chance to win the starting job are two VERY different things.
In my mind, they told each player the latter...Lock liked what he heard, Wilson didn't.
As far as I'm concerned, the fact that they entertained Wilson is worrisome to me. Dabol is slipping a little more each day in my eyes.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Quote from: andrew_nyGiants on March 22, 2024, 09:48:07 AMTelling a player they're guaranteed to start and telling them they have the chance to win the starting job are two VERY different things.
In my mind, they told each player the latter...Lock liked what he heard, Wilson didn't.
As far as I'm concerned, the fact that they entertained Wilson is worrisome to me. Dabol is slipping a little more each day in my eyes.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Andrew, I wouldn't put too much stock in the Wilson visit. Everything I heard was that the visit was initiated by the Wilson camp rather than by the Giants. Likely the Giants took the visit because it never hurts to have an agent owing you one.
Quote from: madbadger on March 19, 2024, 11:49:35 AMAs a coach you lose moral authority with your players when you anoint a guy as the starter when his play hasn't earned that level of respect. There isn't a single guy in the locker room that wants a repeat of last year.
By this standard no rookie quarterback should ever start? I get the point you're trying to make but if I was a veteran on the Giants and I'm presented with:
- Daniel Jones is the starter
- a rookie qb will be the starter
- Drew Lock is the starter
None are terribly appealing but you can just as quickly lose that respect by ditching a guy who the previous season helped win playoff game for a fresh out of college quarterback.
It's much better than saying the Giants are drafting a new QB if he is there at 6.
It maintains the same understanding without giving away draft strategy
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on March 19, 2024, 05:17:07 PMVery good point on Coughlin. Mara has been all over the place with his penchant for playing favorites and getting emotional about certain individuals based on personal feelings, family ties, recommendations from octogenarians who haven't had an NFL job in at least a decade, and other past associations instead of actual performance and accomplishments. That sort of thing can really be corrosive to the morale of a competitive organization, as you aptly articulate regarding your personal example as a manager.
I hope Mara is able to see all this and has the self-awareness to acknowledge it and try to work on it.
As the Maras went, so went Coughlin...the difference was a little guy named Reese who made Coughlin the scapegoat in a desperate attempt to capture some type of autonomy and power.
The problem was/is Maras still remain.
I'm jealous of the Redskins, they finally have a chance at a functional organization.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Quote from: zephirus on March 22, 2024, 11:15:19 AMBy this standard no rookie quarterback should ever start? I get the point you're trying to make but if I was a veteran on the Giants and I'm presented with:
- Daniel Jones is the starter
- a rookie qb will be the starter
- Drew Lock is the starter
None are terribly appealing but you can just as quickly lose that respect by ditching a guy who the previous season helped win playoff game for a fresh out of college quarterback.
A rookie quarterback needs to earn it. If the day after the draft the head coach anoints a draft pick as the day 1 starter he is going to piss off his entire locker room. Does it happen, yes. Is it harmful to a teams culture, absolutely.
Quote from: kingm56 on March 22, 2024, 08:05:37 AMHey Jeff,
To be fair, I don't believe Mara was quick to fire Tom Coughlin; the latter had 3 straight losing seasons:
7-9
6-10
6-10
Ironically, he had the exact same final 3 seasons in Jax from 2000 to 2002. In both cases, I believe there was sufficient cause to fire Coach Coulign. Although, I would have retained him in both scenarios as it should be obvious to everyone (it's not) that coaches, even HoF coaches, need talent to be successful. He simply ran out of talent at both places...
Also, I cannot assign 100% fault to Mara regarding the DJ situation; I believe the latter is still on the roster as a victim of circumstance, or more accurately stated, limited opportunities. I am 100% confident the Giants would have replaced DJ in 2022, when they had two top 7 picks; however, there was no opportunities as the 2022 DRAFT was simply voided of tangible QB prospects. It was arguably the worst year in the past two decades to posses two top 10 picks. That same year, the Giants enjoyed a lot of luck during the first half the of the season, making the Playoffs. As a byproduct, they earned the 24th pick and were again not in position to draft a QB. The majority of the fan base was also fooled by the 2022 season; it would have been a marketing nightmare to enter the 2023 season without a viable QB. I saw no other option than to retain DJ; I also don't view the contract as a catastrophe, thanks to the 2-year escape clause. What does bother me is the three meaningless wins the Giants collected under Tommy D, which once again, places us outside the range of the true QB prospects. In closing, poor luck and circumstances are more to blame than John Mara.
Matt,
Fair enough - "quick" is probably not the best word.
Although given Mara gave Gettleman four seasons, all of which were abject failures, and he only gave Coughlin three bad seasons (if we're calling 7-9 "bad") after two Super Bowl wins, one could argue it wasn't exactly loyal.
Moreover, he seemed to go out of his way to dress up Gettleman's firing as a "retirement", waiting until the end of a truly wretched season when he have seen him fire both GMs and coaches in-season multiple times. Coughlin on the other hand was more or less pushed out and was clearly upset by the whole thing.
"Quick" is the wrong word, I agree. But I don't like the way the Coughlin firing was handled, and meanwhile I don't understand why Gettleman was afforded any more grace than people like McAdoo, Schurmur, and Joe Judge got. Hell, Jerry Reese, a two time Super Bowl winning GM, was fired in-season.
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on March 22, 2024, 05:38:44 PMMatt,
Fair enough - "quick" is probably not the best word.
Although given Mara gave Gettleman four seasons, all of which were abject failures, and he only gave Coughlin three bad seasons (if we're calling 7-9 "bad") after two Super Bowl wins, one could argue it wasn't exactly loyal.
Moreover, he seemed to go out of his way to dress up Gettleman's firing as a "retirement", waiting until the end of a truly wretched season when he have seen him fire both GMs and coaches in-season multiple times. Coughlin on the other hand was more or less pushed out and was clearly upset by the whole thing.
"Quick" is the wrong word, I agree. But I don't like the way the Coughlin firing was handled, and meanwhile I don't understand why Gettleman was afforded any more grace than people like McAdoo, Schurmur, and Joe Judge got. Hell, Jerry Reese, a two time Super Bowl winning GM, was fired in-season.
Fair counterpoints, Jeff. Well stated...