Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: MightyGiants on April 01, 2024, 11:15:32 AM@babywhales

Rather than just talking about people's opinions, we do have some factual data in the form of the Wonderlic test score.  The Wonderlic measures the following:


Yes, the Wonderlic test measures processing speed. The Wonderlic Personnel Test (WPT), also known as the Wonderlic test, is a psychometric assessment that assesses the test-taker's problem-solving skills and aptitude. The WPT has 50 questions and a time limit of 12 minutes. It assesses verbal, numerical, and spatial skills, and how quickly and well you can think. The WPT has four categories: General Knowledge, Verbal Reasoning, Abstract Reasoning, and Numerical Reasoning


The 2019 Wonderlic scores were leaked for QBs:


Quarterbacks
Ryan Finley: 43
Gardner Minshew: 42
Daniel Jones: 37
Easton Stick: 32
Clayton Thorson: 32
Trace McSorley: 31
Will Grier: 30
Brett Rypien: 28
Jarrett Stidham: 27
Drew Lock: 26
Tyree Jackson: 25
Dwayne Haskins: 25
Sean McGuire: 22
Kyler Murray: 20


Again, it's very hard to believe the claims that Jones needed things "dumb down"

In all that I just provided I get a Wonderlic score?  well maybe if Jones was worried the test practitioner was going to blindside him while answering the test results would have been different.  

I suppose his inability to read and address empty protection and overhang coverage didn't happen either because he has a high wonderlic score?  

Or maybe a test index does not directly corelate to field play?

Quote from: MightyGiants on March 30, 2024, 10:04:22 AMWhat the people making the unsubstantiated claims about the Giants having to dumb down the play book for Daniel Jones never explain is this:

The mental aspect of the game is heavily scouted (and readily apparent) by teams.  Daniel Jones struggled to understand the NFL game according to some of his harshest critics but Shurmur and Gettleman went ahead and drafted him sixth overall (Lock was not a first-round pick)

Schoen and Daboll also learned that Jones is supposedly limited mentally, yet they signed him to a big-ticket contract (where the Broncos moved on from Lock).

The number of people I need to believe are below average in intelligence and/or judgment is just too much for me.

Unsubstantiated is a bit much.  The comments are steadily made in film reviews, and podcasts, pressers and in articles.  This off course happened over a year and half and you act like I need a cited report and references.  The more shocking thing is that this has been discussed here over the same time frame and you are just now commenting on it.
Jones, a Duke graduate, is obviously smart and several articles have been written to state how impressed Daboll and others have been when they talk football, the academic side of football. Unfortunately, the game is not played at a white board and is played in real-time and that is where Jones struggles. Poor pre-snap reads and poor in play mental processing.

In 2023, the Offense was built around the corner stone idea of not putting the ball in Jones' hands.  Spread out the offense, less players in the box and let Jones and Barkley run it.  Jones scramble more in 2023 then in the 4 years prior. Running unbalanced sets with both OT's on same side, 113 personal, pin and pull, etc . Passing out of a league high playaction still couldnt get the ball down field.  While only throwing 25-28 times over 20 yards, fewest in NFL. The run first and pass second worked and when Jones was asked to throw it was from league high Play action out of heavy formations.

Dan Dugan wrote an article in sept of 2023 calling the 2022 offense smoke and mirrors. Multiple others stating in the attempt to disguise what Jones does poorly the Giants are running an offense that doesn't have him do much, multiple references to a QB who does little QB stuff.  Using non traditional formations to keep defenses at bay, Barkley as a wildcat, Slayton as a TE and pitching to Bellinger on a run, Breda running jet sweeps.  the coaches did a great job in 2022 of letting the offense do enough to succeed without it hurting the team.  All of that had more to do with jones and Barkley running plays complementing each other and keeping defenses at bay and not Jones's the QB, not his play as a passer and dropping back.

The wealth of film reviews continually highlights and suggest, a simple yet camouflaged offense in 2022.  Just because they came into camp with complex ideas does not mean that is what they implemented.

Daboll said they implemented terminology and basic offense in year one.   

Year two they opened it up the offense, had more talent, more speed and the wheels feel off.  Skinner did a podcast in early 2023 season where he stated the Giants are opening up the offense and asking Jones to do more and he failed to raise his game.

"They realized, 'Let's not put Jones in situations where he might have a bunch of moving parts, where he might have to think faster than he's capable of,' " Orlovsky said. "That's when he feels like, 'I have to get the ball out of my hands' and make a quick decision in the midst of chaos or under pressure. That's kind of been the M.O. for him for three years."
"It's very noticeable how little they make him play like an NFL quarterback. He has the easiest reads and the easiest concepts, and still he does not throw the ball accurately. He doesn't throw to the correct leverage, doesn't throw the receivers open, just doesn't do it. I'm giving you zero opinions. This is all the tape shows."

Daboll in 2024 did an interview and was asked why Waller isn't getting more targets and he stated "the reads" indicating his quarterbacks vision and decisions.

The play, as you could guess, featured Jones staring down his receiver. That, in effect, dialed up the game-breaking defensive touchdown for Witherspoon (who also recorded seven tackles and two sacks). You simply can't let cornerbacks where you want to throw the ball if you want to succeed as a quarterback. It's one of the cardinal rules of succeeding as a signal caller at the professional level. It's something Jones still does five years into his NFL career.
After the game, on NFL Gameday Final, Witherspoon was asked about Seattle's tremendous defensive success and how it managed to turn Jones into a trademark pumpkin. Rather than offer the standard cannon fodder about appreciating his teammates and working hard, Witherspoon almost immediately said, "We knew he [Jones] liked to stare down his first target."
I agree why did they sign him to such a deal?  I felt going in to FA he was worth 25 mill per, I think they clearly paid too much at 92 mill on a 2year deal.  I suspect they felt the growth in year 1 would continue.  The combination of the poor Oline and Jones poor play led to a disastrous season for the GMEN overall and Jones as a QB.

Jones ran a 1 read offense at Duke (65% one reads for college career)

Jones excelled under Shurmer in his 1 read , quick pass offense . That too was a stripped down offense .  (To be fair he was a rookie)

Jones has done little to nothing since as a passer , including under Daboll 

Watching All22, what makes you think the comments are not untrue ???

Looking at the degrees of complexity 

On end you have Eli and Gilbride running one of, if not the most complex offenses ever and on the other you have jones and 4 coaches who keep it relatively and when it's not the wheels come off. In those cases jones isn't the only reason why and maybe not the biggest reason why but he is certainly part of the problem

Lesson learned , don't draft a qb who is slow to process info.  If they came from a 1 read offense don't assume they can simply transition to a multi read offense  

Looking at the film it's clear to me a change is coming at a qb, I just don't know if it's this year or next 

Quote from: MightyGiants on March 29, 2024, 08:53:52 AMI listen to a ton of NFL experts (former GMs, coaches, and players) and I have yet to hear a single one of them suggest the Giants offense was simple or simplified

I have heard multiple say that jones was running the most basic offense and poorly at that.  One DC, in fact some even mocked him for his inability to run such a simple offense. This has been discussed here multiple times.

Just doing a quick search i found this instantly, ""It's very noticeable how little they make him play like an NFL quarterback," the coach said about Jones during a chat with NFL senior writer Mike Sando of The Athletic. "He has the easiest reads and the easiest concepts, and still he does not throw the ball accurately. He doesn't throw to the correct leverage, doesn't throw the receivers open, just doesn't do it. I'm giving you zero opinions. This is all the tape shows."

"They played simple offense last year, and the guy made simple plays, but here is the issue," the defensive coach said about Jones guiding the 2022 Giants to the postseason and to a road playoff victory. "This year, simple is not good enough. The boot pass will never be enough to get you back into the game. It's like last year they hid the secret somehow and maybe he showed flashes of improvement. It looks bad now."

Well he should fit in well with the Giants QB room as they run the most remedial offense in the NFL.  


If true, looks like the they can leave the training wheels on the offense regardless of who is behind center. 

It was an 8pm puck drop here in Sconin, the late start saved me as I got back from the rink for the start of the second.
My 13 yr old son is a goalie and a huge Igor fan last nights 40 shot, 2 goal effort was phenomenal and had him glued  to the set. The way Igor tracked Rantanen to the right while butterfly pushing during the shoot out was sick, completely took him out of the play!!!!  Just beautiful. The breakout pass from Igor to Panarin for the breakaway was ridiculous and just one of the many high-quality opportunities they couldn't capitalize on.   Hoping Igor carries this momentum into the offseason.

That being said Georgie was impressive as well. Granted taking significantly less shots, he was putting on a show of his own.   Im happy for him, but wish he saved those nights for other teams.

Not only was Lindgren back but he got a ton of time on the ice and with plenty of time left in the season he should hopefully be looking back to normal hitting the playoffs. 

Let's get Trouba back and hope Gustafsson can get back on his skates healthy before the playoffs.

I was happy to just see the game with my boy, but thrilled by what we were treated to.

Quote from: T200 on March 25, 2024, 09:41:13 AMWhat's more valuable to an offense: a top 3 QB or a top 3 WR?

Roster development is relative. You can win with either or neither, it all depends on the how the rest of the team is built.

Quote from: brownelvis54 on March 23, 2024, 11:10:31 AMIf this is true, then why do we suck so bad? 

2nd worst line in nfl history and an overpaid average QB that is a 7 year project 

Here is a Game 7 history for the NHL

Red Highlight represents road teams winning game 7.   

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NHL_game_sevens

Without calculating it looks fairly even though.

Makes sense as home is in regular season is 54.5 and 54.9 in playoffs.

It's much better than saying the Giants are drafting a new QB if he is there at 6.

It maintains the same understanding without giving away draft strategy 

Told the whole world who he was taking before hand, ultimately screwing himself over

Mentally yes
That was clear last season 

Quote from: coggs on March 21, 2024, 08:23:14 AMHonestly, think I would rather be home for games 3 and 4 than 1 and 2.  This isn't 1985 where a team can make the play-offs with 70 points.  Every team in the play-offs is going to be good.  Not sure home-ice means anything anymore.

Wouldn't you want home ice for game 7's?

Quote from: ViewFromSection129 on March 19, 2024, 10:20:18 AMI don't get Neal at all.  He was considered as close to a sure thing as there was.  Not necessarily to be a superstar, but to at least be a very good tackle.  And he came from a top school.  Something is amiss here.

Could be as simple as lacking the mental discipline for the NFL, he abandons his technique when under duress. 

Or it could be poor coaching, Bobby Johnson was horrible and has been horrible for the majority of his career.

Or it could be the scheme, I have read Daboll asks Olineman to use a mix of zone and man:man blocking that can be very hard for certain players to implement. 

Either way the guy is a mess on the field more than not
 

As they showed the first replay of Lindgren going down, I instantly thought of the Potvin hit on Ulf Nilsson as the Rangers started looking toward the 79 playoffs.

An otherwise hit of no regard leaving the ranger flat on the ice only to be helped off

Glad the news was so good.

The upcoming three game tilt is off the charts. 

I am excited to see how the team matches up, even with missing Lindgren and Trouba.