Big Blue Huddle

I began my now legendary worship of our beloved Giants in 1965. The eight year old Big Hitter watched as the Giants opened the season with four road games before returning home to four straight home games at The Stadium. Ultimately, the Giants would meander their way to a 7-7 final record. As I wax nostagic on this beautiful spring evening, let us re-examine 1965, game by game.


Game 1
September 19
at Dallas

Cowboys 31, Giants 2

In his rookie debut with the Cowboys, Bob Hayes catches two passes for 81 yards and runs 45 yards on an end-around for a touchdown. The Giants only score occurs in the third period when Jim Katcavage tackles Don Meredith in the Cowboy end zone for a safety. The Pokes' 31-2 thrashing of the Giants seals forever the Big Hitter's hatred of the Cowboys.


Game 2
September 26
at Philadelphia

Giants 16, Eagles 14

Andy Stynchula kicks field goals of 24, 20, and 11 yards, the last of which overcomes a 14-13 deficit to give the Giants a two point victory. Stynchula, a former Penn State All American defensive tackle, is best known for being traded from the Redskins to the Giants for Sam Huff. Giant rookie fullback Tucker Frederickson runs for 76 yards on 17 carries.


Game 3
October 03
at Pittsburgh

Giants 23, Steelers 13

Aaron Thomas catches a 29 yard TD pass from Earl Morrall to seal the victory. Earlier in the game, Giant rookie Bob Timberlake kicks a 43 yard field goal. This would be Timberlake's only successful field goal that year, finishing the season at 1/15.


Game 4
October 09
at Minnesota

Vikings 40, Giants 14

An odd Saturday game for that era. The Vikings, up 17-7 at the half, score 21 unanswered third quarter points to turn the game into a blow out.


Game 5
October 17
Yankee Stadium

Giants 35, Eagles 27

The Giants jump out to a 35-7 third quarter lead before the Eagles score 20 late points to make the score respectful. Earl Morrall completes 10 of 15 passes for an incredible 296 yards and four touchdowns, including tosses of 71 yards to Aaron Thomas, 46 yards to Joe Morrison, 89 yards to Homer Jones, and 2 yards to Bobby Crespino.


Game 6
October 24
Yankee Stadium 
   
Browns 38, Giants 14

The reigning NFL Champion Browns thoroughly dominate the Giants, finishing with 526 total yards of offense. The great Jim Brown is magnificent, running for 177 yards on 24 carries. He also catches three passes for 18 yards, including a five yard TD catch from Frank Ryan, and throws a 39 yard option pass TD to Gary Collins.


Game 7
October 31
Yankee Stadium

Giants 14, Cardinals 10

The Cards amass 438 total yards of offense but only score ten points in the loss. The Giants, down 10-0 at the half, score on a 29 yard Morrall-to-Thomas third quarter TD pass and a Frederickson four yard fourth quarter TD run to seal the victory.

Note that this game was played on Halloween. Later that evening, The Big Hitter would go trick-or-treating as Frank Gifford. The outfit consisted of a Giant helmet borrowed from a friend and a navy blue sweatshirt decorated with the number "16" drawn with white shoe polish.


Game 8
November 07
Yankee Stadium

Redskins 23, Giants 07

The Giants turn the ball over five times on three lost fumbles and two interceptions. My personal memory of the game is of Giant Bob Timberlake missing one chip shot field goal after another.


Game 9
November 14
at Cleveland

Browns 34, Giants 21

The Browns once again pound the Giants, finishing with 459 total yards of offense. Jim Brown runs for 156 yards on 20 carries plus three rushing touchdowns.


Game 10
November 21
at St. Louis

Giants 28, Cardinals 15

The scoring opens in an odd manner. In the 1st quarter, Giant linebacker Gerry Hillebrand intercepts a Buddy Humphrey pass in the end zone. Hillebrand attempts to return the ball, fumbles, and falls on the ball in the end zone. Under the rules of that era, the call is a safety. The Cards turn the ball over five times in the game, and the Giants win comfortably.


Game 11
November 28
Yankee Stadium

Bears 35, Giants 14

The Bears thoroughly @sswhoop the Giants on both sides of the ball. By, half-time, the score is 21-0, and the Bears coast to victory. Gayle Sayers runs for 113 yards on just 13 carries and two TDs, plus catches two passes for 24 yards. Sayers' fellow rookie Dick Butkus kills the Giant offense.

My most vivid memory of this game involves Bear TE Mike Ditka. During the first half, Ditka catches a Rudy Bukich sideline pass and turns upfield. He is simultaneously hit by about five Giants, all of who bounce off Ditka like so many rubber balls. Ditka rumbles on for a long gain. This play was immortalized by being shown in a shaving commercial for several subsequent seasons, and was integral in the making of the legend of Iron Mike.


Game 12
December 05
Yankee Stadium

Giants 35 Steelers 10

Tucker Frederckson has a big game, running for 81 yards on 17 carries and two touchdowns and catching 3 passes for 16 yards and another touchdown. The Steelers turn the ball over six times on four lost fumbles and two Bill Nelson interceptions.


Game 13
December 12
at Washington

Giants 27 Redskins 10

After spotting the Redskins ten points (including a 45 yard option pass TD from Charlie Taylor to Bobby Mitchell), the Giants score 27 unanswered points to cruise to victory. Homer Jones catches touchdown passes of 74 and 72 yards from Eral Morrall.


Game 14
December 19
Yankee Stadium

Cowboys 38 Giants 20

The Big Hitter is worked up for this one. If the 7-6 Giants win, they will tie the 8-5 Cowboys with identical 8-6 records. Under tie-breaking rules, the Giants will finish second in the NFL East and move on to play in the 1965 Playoff Bowl. After three quarters, the Cowboys lead a seesaw battle 17-13. Early in the 4th quarter, the Giants drive inside the Cowboy 35 yard line. When the drive stalls, the Giants try a 40 yard field goal. The kick is blocked and Dallas LB Obert Logan returns the ball 60 yards for a touchdown. The Giants trail, 24-13.

The Giants respond with a long drive that ends in a 2 yard Morrall-to-Crespino TD pass. 24-20, Dallas. The Giants stop Dallas, then drive towards the winning touchdown. On a crucial fourth down play, Giant HC Allie Sherman sends CB (and world class sprinter) Clarence Childs into the game as a wide receiver. Sherman calls for an out pattern. Dallas CB Cornell Green picks the pass off and runs 43 yards into Giant territory. Dallas QB Don Meredith then throws a 29 yard TD pass to flanker Buddy Dials. 31-20 Dallas. On the Giants ensuing drive, Morrall throws a pass that is picked off by Cowboy Warren Livingston. A 2 yard TD run by Cowboy JD Smith closes out the scoring. Final score: Dallas 38, Giants 20.


The Giants finished the 1965 season at 7-7, an outcome that would become commonplace in the late sixties. The 1965 Giants gave so many thrills and heartbreaks to me in that, my formative season. The credit for my 1965 transformation into a Giant fan can be credited to my mother's cousin, Mary Ann. Mary Ann, nine years my senior, had grown up in the era of Charlie Connerly, Y.A. Tittle, Frank Gifford, Big Red Webster, and (most of all) Sam Huff. Mary Ann easily converted me into the honor and valor of Giant Fandom. Mary Ann would reward my youthful loyalty each birthday and Christmas with books from the Punt, Pass, and Kick Library, then later with Elliot Asinof's now classic book, Seven Days to Sunday.

I owe so much to Mary Ann for giving me this treasure of my youth. A true Irish Catholic, she never married. Tragically, she died just a few hours ago of an unexpected heart attack. No history of heart disease. She has moved on to join Joe Morrison, Rosey Brown, and all other Giants, big and not so big, who have passed into God's Hands. I loved her very much. Still do. And I will miss her aways.

RIP Mary Ann McMahon. Hugs, Kisses, and, most of all, Love.

Brian

   

I put this video in as part of a Kenny Phillips thread, but perhps it should also be archived over here on the History Board. I know that our good friend Chris Allen would enjoy it. Wow, Mr. Butkus!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NhNVqs07FRc&NR=1


Big Hitter

In his very insightful post, ELCHALJE raised the question:

"On Plax's catch, I remain amazed how he gave just the slightest tweak to his route to give the New England defender the idea that he was headed for the inside.  Being one on one with Plax, wouldn't you think that the defender would prevent the outside move first  and look for help on the inside?"

In researching the matter, I reviewed the video of the play. What I noticed was that the Giants seemed to dupe New England into an incorrect coverage scheme. But why? The Patriots are renowned for proper alignment. I then reviewed the entire final drive. I believe that I may have found the answer.

During the drive, which lasted twelve plays, the Giants played a four wideout, single back set on ten of the plays. As best I can tell (the quality of the film made it difficult to read the uniform numbers), the wideouts consisted of Plaxico Burress, Steve Smith, Amani Toomer, and David Tyree. Brandon Jacobs was the single back in all ten four wide sets. The Giants operated their four wide sets out of two formations: 

Split left, split right, double slot, either left or  right (hereafter: trips left or trips right).
Split left, slot left, slot right, split right (hereafter: spread).

In the trips formation, Burress plays left end, Tyree right end, Steve Smith the inside slot, Toomer the outside slot. Jacobs lines up weakside to the trips, usually staying in to block. The Giants do not use any motion on any of the four wide plays.

New England countered the Giants' four wide set with a 3-3-5 nickle defense. New England may have utilized some rotation on the line but, for the most part, their personnel looked, left to right for the offense, as:

DL: Seymour, Wilfork, Warren
LBs: Thomas, Seau, Bruschi
CBs: Hobbs, Samuels
Nickle: Merriweather
Safeties: Harrison, Sanders

The following is a play-by-play breakdown of the drive. I include the pre-snap location of the ball, as this will become important as the Giants approach the end zone.

Play One: First down. Giant 17 yard line, right hash, trips left. Pass to Toomer, middle right, complete, eleven yards, first down.

Play Two: First down. Giant 28, right hash, trips left. Pass to Toomer, middle right, incomplete. It appears as if Steve Smith ran the wrong pattern, as he brings additional coverage to Toomer's location.

Play Three: Second down. Giant 28, right hash, trips left. Sideline pass to Burress, incomplete.

Play Four: Third Down. Giants 28, right hash, trips left. Pass to Toomer, left hash, nine yards. Fourth and less than one, Giant 37 yard line.

Play Five: Fourth and one, Giant 37, left hash. The Giants go eye formation, wideout left, wideout right, double tight end right. H-back tight end comes in motion left. Fullback lead/tailback dive right. Madison Hedgecock obliterates a linebacker; Jacobs for one/plus yard. First down.

Play Six: First down, Giant 38, just right of the left hash. The Giants change up the formation. Spread formation: split left/split right/slot left, slot right. Right slot is close to the right tackle. A strong Adalius Thomas outside move flushes Manning right. Manning is able to scramble for six yards.

Play Seven: Second down and four, Giant 44, right hash. Spread formation. Deep out, right sideline, incomplete. It appears as if the receiver (Toomer?) broke off the pattern too soon. Asante Samuel had a shot at an interception, but a further look shows that he may have landed with a toe out of bounds.

Play Eight: The Play. Third and four, Giant 44, right hash. Spread formation.

The Patriots show a 3-2-6 set. The defensive linemen overload the left side, showing a zero(shade left)/3/7 front. Two linebackers cover the right side of the line, sitting in the 3 and 5 positions. The nickle and dime backs are up close on the slot receivers. The remaining defensive backs are in a Cover Two, with the LCB even yards off the LOS, the RCB ten yards off. Both safeties are playing very deep. 

For the first time in the drive, Brandon Jacobs lines up to the strong side/short side of the field. The New England defense correctly reads an

I posted on this topic a few years back on the BBWC. Back then, MG (Richie) and I discussed the matter at length. Since MG touched upon this issue in a separate thread, I thought this might be a good time to reintroduce the subject.

The thread

Giant Coaches' Trivia

1) This former Giant head coach had previously been the defensive coordinator for two successive Super Bowl champions (same team). Name the man and the team.

2) This former Giant nemesis was once the defensive coordinator for two separate Super Bowl champions (different teams). As best as I can determine, he is the only one to have done so. Name the coach and the two teams whose defenses he coordinated into SB champions.

3) This former Giant offensive coordinator once coached a high school basketball team that won the New Jersey State Parochial Schools Championship. Name him.

4) The Giants played the Packers in the 1961 NFL Championship, a game won by the Packers, 37-0. Six players who participated in this game later became NFL head coaches. Name the six players.

5) This Giant head coach was a member of the same college backfield as a future NFL Hall of Fame player. The HOFer played a portion of his career as a Giant. Name the coach, the HOFer, and the Alma Mater.

Big Hitter
     

Throw some starting backfields at me, and I will try to put up their photographs. They need not be "great;" the memories alone will serve the purpose. I will start with a few:



1950s New York Giants


Charlie Conerly



Frank Gifford



Alex Webster





1950s Baltimore Colts


Johnny Unitas



Lenny Moore



Alan Ameche





1960s Green Bay Packers


Bart Starr



Paul Hornung



Jim Taylor





1960s Cleveland Browns


Frank Ryan



Jim Brown



Ernie Green





1960s Philadelphia Eagles


Norman Snead



Timmy Brown



Earl Gros




Big Hitter

Listed below are twenty current or former Giant players. Each player on the list matches with a second player on the list with having attended the same university or college. WITHOUT LOOKING IT UP, match the ten pairs of players and list the respective alma maters. (For example; Pepper Johnson/William Roberts/Ohio State.)

Dave Meggett
Rodney Hampton
Michael Strahan
Jim Burt
Jeff Hotstetler
Steve DeOssie
Sean Landetta
Homer Jones
Chris Snee
Sam Huff
Y.A. Tittle
O.J. Anderson
Brad Van Pelt
Amani Toomer
Alex Webster
Fran Tarkenton
Leonard Marshall
Ron Johnson
Mark Ingram
Perry Williams

Big Hitter

The Date: December 03, 1967
The Place: Municipal Stadium, Cleveland, Ohio
The Game: New York Giants vs. Cleveland Browns

The Situation: Fresh off a 44-7 trouncing of the Philadelphia Eagles, the 6-5 Giants visit Cleveland to face the 7-4 Browns in a game that will determine the who will be the NFL's Century Division Champions. 

The Scenario: As the result of abysmal offensive play, the Giants end the first half down17-0. The Giants take the opening kick of the second half and, led by Fran Tarkenton, drive crisply down the field to cut the deficit to 17-7. After a stout defensive stop, the Giants regain the ball. With the game's momentum now clearly swung towards the Giants, Tarkenton leads the Giants masterfully down the field towards another score. Deep in Brown territory, Tarketon calls for a square out pattern to Giant end Aaron Thomas. Suddenly, a Brown linebacker jumps the route, intercepts the pass, and rumbles 79 yards for a touchdown. 24-7, Browns. The Giants add one more score, but end the game at the short end of a 24-14 final.

The Question: Who was the Brown linebacker who made this crucial interception/TD runback?

Extra Credit: What was this player's uniform number, curious for a linebacker?

Extra Credit: What was this player's college alma mater?

Big Hitter



 

This member of the Giant family began his career as a backup player for the Eagles. Later, as a member of the Giants, he garnered the same prestigious NFL award in consecutive years. Late in his Giant career, 15,000 pennants were sold in his honor at a Giant home game.

Who is he?

The BigHitter began his now legendary fanship of our beloved New York Giants in 1965. That season saw the inception of the shortlived "Baby Bulls" backfield. Second year RBs Steve Thurlow and Ernie Wheelwright were joined by rookies Tucker Frederickson, Chuck Mercein, and Ernie Koy.

All five players were amazingly similar in size: 6'1"-6'3", 220-235 lbs. All five were straight-ahead, bull rushing fullback types. All five also showed good pass catching abilities. Without further research, I can only speculate as to why Giants' head coach Allie Sherman suddenly fell in love with this type player. Perhaps he felt the need to replace Giant great Alex "Big Red" Webster, who had retired following the 1964 season. 


The Baby Bulls


Tucker Frederickson

The Giants obviously percieved Tucker Frederickson to be the cream of the crop, selecting him with the #1 overall pick in the 1965 NFL draft. He paid immediate dividends, rushing for 659 yards (a credible number in that day and age), while catching 24 passes for 177 yards. He made the Pro Bowl that year as a rookie. A pre-season knee injury knocked him out for the entire 1966 campaign. He returned in 1967, but the injury hobbled his running ability. He did become a favorite receiver of Fran Tarkenton later in his career. Tucker retired after the 1971 season.   



http://www.databasefootball.com/players/playerpage.htm?ilkid=FREDETUC01


Ernie Koy

Ernie Koy rushed for 174 yards in limited playing time in 1965. He also became the Giants full-time punter, averaging 41.2 yards/kick on 55 punts. He went on to have a creditable career as a Giant running back, with a season-high 704 yards rushing in 1967. He remained the Giants' primary punter through 1969. He retired following the 1970 season.



http://www.databasefootball.com/players/playerpage.htm?ilkid=KOYERN01


Chuck Mercein

Chuck Mercein saw limited time carrying the ball for the Giants in 1965, totalling just 55 yards on 18 carries. He had his best year as a pro in 1966. Filling in for the injured Frederickson, he ran for 327 yards on 94 carries and caught 27 passes for 156 yards. Shipped off to the Packers during the 1967 season, he did little during the remainder of a career that ended with the Jets in 1970. Mercein did produce a short NFL historical blip by making a notable contribution to the Packers' famous come-from-behind game winning "Instant Replay" drive during their 1967 "Ice Bowl" playoff victory over the Cowboys.



http://www.databasefootball.com/players/playerpage.htm?ilkid=MERCECHU01


Steve Thurlow

Steve Thurlow was the Giants second leading rusher in 1965, carrying the ball 106 times for 440 yards. Oddly, with Frederickson out for the entire season, the Giants shipped their #2 1965 rusher to the Redskins at the beginning of the 1966 campaign. He showed limited success for the Skins, retiring after the 1968 season.



http://www.databasefootball.com/players/playerpage.htm?ilkid=THURLSTE01


Ernie Wheelwright

Ernie Wheelwright had been the Giants leading rusher in 1964, having carried the ball 100 times for 402 yards. Frederickson's 1965 arrival seriously curtailed Ernie's playing time, limiting him to just 96 yards on 24 carries. He was picked up by the Falcons in the 1966 expansion draft. After running for 458 yards on 121 carries for the Falcs in '66, he was shipped to the Saints during their inaugural campaign of 1967. He played sparingly for the Saints thru 1970, retiring after that season. 



http://www.databasefootball.com/players/playerpage.htm?ilkid=WHEELERN02


BigHitter

In a separate thread, Sam56 listed eighteen HOF inductees who can properly be called Giants. Good job, Sam. I thought I might post photographs of these Giant Greats:

MORRIS (RED) BADGRO (1981) - 1930-1935





ROOSEVELT BROWN (1975) - 1953-1965





HARRY CARSON (2006) - 1976-1988





BENNY FRIEDMAN (2005) - 1929-1931





FRANK GIFFORD (1977) - 1952-1960, 1962-1964





MEL HEIN (1963) - 1931-1945





SAM HUFF (1982) - 1956-1963





ALPHONSE (TUFFY) LEEMANS (1978) - 1936-1943





TIM MARA (1963) - 1925-1959





WELLINGTON MARA (1997) - 1937-2005





STEVE OWEN (1966) - 1926-1953





ANDY ROBUSTELLI (1971) - 1956-1964





KEN STRONG (1967) - 1933-1935, 1939, 1944-1947





FRAN TARKENTON (1986) - 1967-1971





LAWRENCE TAYLOR (1999) - 1981-1993





Y.A. TITTLE (1971) - 1961-1964





EMLEN TUNNELL (1967) - 1948-1958





ARNIE WEINMEISTER (1984) - 1950-1953





-delama.

To all our members at the new BBGC, my good friends from the BBWC, and treasured guests, I would like to welcome you to the BBGC History Board.

The purpose of this board is to examine the storied history of beloved New York Giants. I will be posting threads on various eras in Giants team history, biographical sketches of individual Giant players, team and individual photographs, and books, links, and like info on our heroes. I consider this board to be a work in process. Like many of you, I have a good working knowledge of Giants' history, but, also like you, I have much to learn. As lead administrator/editor of this project, I hope to bring us all to a better understanding the Big Blue Heritage.

Lastly, on behalf of all the administrators of the Big Blue Gentlemen's Crew, I would like to dedicate this board to the memory of the late Christopher Allen. For those who did not know him, Chris Allen was the resident Giants' historian at the BBWC. Chris tragically and unexpectedly passed on in 2006. Let all who post here strive to match the professional and level-headed historical analysis which we were once so honored to enjoy via the pen of our good friend Chris.

BigHitterDalama