"Schoen still has the Buffalo News from the next day, in which venerable columnist Jerry Sullivan declared that Beane, Sean McDermott and Co. had picked "The Wrong Josh".
Schoen keeps that newspaper as a reminder, and not because he, Beane or McDermott, or the coach he took with him to New York, Brian Daboll, have it all figured out. For him, it's more of a reminder to trust your eyes, your ears, your research, your experience, and your gut. It was those things that led that Bills group to a franchise-changing player who, at the time, was ridiculed by scores of would-be personnel gurus on TV, radio and social media."
"We don't wanna be up here again—we don't want to be picking in the top 10," he says. "We have multiple needs. We are going into Year 3. People assume we're going quarterback, but we have other needs. If the quarterbacks go 1–4, then we're getting the second-best position player, not quarterback, at six, which is O.K., too. That player will really help us. Even last year, our quarterback coach was at the C.J. Stroud workout. We spent a lot of time with Will Levis, Anthony Richardson."
https://www.si.com/nfl/2024/04/08/giants-trusting-nfl-draft-process-daniel-jones
And, of course, his scenario assumes Pick Five (just ahead of the Giants) will be at the same position that the Giants would be interested in, which (as he says) would then result in the Giants getting the second-best player at the same position. But there are other scenarios where the Giants could get to draft the very best player (in their view) at a position of need, which IMO is the Holy Grail of any draft... combining the filling of a need with taking best player available. Bob
I see this is from Albert Breer. I just listened to Breer on a podcast yesterday. Breer said he believes the Giants are not going to draft a quarterback because they are in win-now mode (while continuing to build). Breer says the Giants are looking to win in 2024, not 2025 (while giving a pass to 2024). Breer said he knows the Giants know they have weaknesses but that they are convinced they can win while building.
Quote from: MightyGiants on April 09, 2024, 10:50:36 AMI see this is from Albert Breer. I just listened to Breer on a podcast yesterday. Breer said he believes the Giants are not going to draft a quarterback because they are in win-now mode (while continuing to build). Breer says the Giants are looking to win in 2024, not 2025 (while giving a pass to 2024). Breer said he knows the Giants know they have weaknesses but that they are convinced they can win while building.
I got that impression from the article and how it was constructed and the narrative pushed. Joe Schoen certainly framed his comments to give that perception. I know Ric feels that's the way they are going and I would not be surprised if they do.
Win now, while simultaneously expressing they have holes all over the roster to fill/upgrade. Seems like a filler article designed to provide content, during a null period in the NFL schedule.
Quote from: MightyGiants on April 09, 2024, 10:50:36 AMI see this is from Albert Breer. I just listened to Breer on a podcast yesterday. Breer said he believes the Giants are not going to draft a quarterback because they are in win-now mode (while continuing to build). Breer says the Giants are looking to win in 2024, not 2025 (while giving a pass to 2024). Breer said he knows the Giants know they have weaknesses but that they are convinced they can win while building.
I very much hope he's wrong. At least about them believing they can win while rebuilding. Because they can't. Nobody can. Unless you have Mahomes or somebody on that level at QB. They have Daniel Jones. So no. They can't. If they don't want to take the 4th best QB because the 2nd best WR is a better prospect in their eyes then cool. No issues. If they have a QB and WR graded equally and go WR because they think they can win with this slop at QB again next year then they might be almost as delusional as Gettleman. Almost.
Quote from: MightyGiants on April 09, 2024, 10:50:36 AMI see this is from Albert Breer. I just listened to Breer on a podcast yesterday. Breer said he believes the Giants are not going to draft a quarterback because they are in win-now mode (while continuing to build). Breer says the Giants are looking to win in 2024, not 2025 (while giving a pass to 2024). Breer said he knows the Giants know they have weaknesses but that they are convinced they can win while building.
Smoke and mirrors, which means JS is doing his job.
He states the Giants are not necessarily all in on taking a QB, without saying they are all set and happy at QB.
This type of misdirection is exactly what you want from a GM at this stage of the season.
Although if you saw the Giants offensively play last season, you'd be a fool to think they are rebuilding that side on the fly.
I will add one more thing I remember. Part of Breer's reasoning was another losing season could cost jobs.
Quote from: MightyGiants on April 09, 2024, 11:59:02 AMI will add one more thing I remember. Part of Breer's reasoning was another losing season could cost jobs.
Yes it could cost jobs but it's all about the context of the defeats. If they have a rookie competitive and they are showing progress week on week, I don't think the HC and GM get canned.
If they are blown out, dysfunctional, that's a different story.
Simply put, a rookie QB doesn't automatically mean a disaster of season. It could do but I don't think it's a forgone conclusion that a rookie QB couldn't come in and win some games.
Why can't we ever have a full on rebuild.
With no direct evidence or inside info, IMO there's probably one particular QB whom, if lightning strikes and he falls to them, they'll have a hard time NOT taking, unless their top-rated WR is also there and they have that man rated very very highly, in which case, as Breer's ear-to-the-ground info suggests, they'll go WR. Bob
Quote from: Jclayton92 on April 09, 2024, 03:25:30 PMWhy can't we ever have a full on rebuild.
My gut is because the nature of the NFL now is so short-term / GMs and coaches have to win quickly and patience is thinner than I can ever remember. Because of this I feel like there is a huge disincentive to actually tearing things down to the studs and starting fresh.
Quote from: Jclayton92 on April 09, 2024, 03:25:30 PMWhy can't we ever have a full on rebuild.
I suspect John Mara has the old-school mentality that is often seen here when there are discussions about losing games for a higher draft slot versus winning as many games as possible, even if it hurts the team long term.
Mara is all about winning games, even if it harms his team's long-term future.
I will say this: The Giants gave away a valuable (in terms of trading up if they wanted a quarterback) high second-round pick in the Burns trade. I have to think, at the very least, that precludes the Giants from trading up for a QB, and perhaps tips Schoen's overall draft intentions (that he is drafting a WR unless perhaps the right QB falls to him).
Quote from: Jclayton92 on April 09, 2024, 03:25:30 PMWhy can't we ever have a full on rebuild.
They will never be relevant until they recognize that. The cycle of mediocrity will go on and on.
Quote from: MightyGiants on April 09, 2024, 03:53:56 PMI will say this: The Giants gave away a valuable (in terms of trading up if they wanted a quarterback) high second-round pick in the Burns trade. I have to think, at the very least, that precludes the Giants from trading up for a QB, and perhaps tips Schoen's overall draft intentions (that he is drafting a WR unless perhaps the right QB falls to him).
Rich: That makes sense. I suppose they could get around that problem if they're willing to part with multiple picks next yr and/or in later yrs (they could also trade one of their few really good players... sure hope not). Bob
Quote from: MightyGiants on April 09, 2024, 11:59:02 AMI will add one more thing I remember. Part of Breer's reasoning was another losing season could cost jobs.
Rebuilding poorly in an effort to 'win now' could also end up costing jobs. I'm not that down with the idea that the Giants brain trust is good at strategic thinking. I think there was some delusion over the 2022 season. Thinking that because they made the play-offs via smoke and mirrors meant that they had a base they just needed to add a few pieces to. And running a very soft camp when what the really needed a tough rigorous camp to optimize their limited talent was a massive misreading of the situation, IMO.
Who they got in FA, and who they draft, is all well and good. But for me it is how they manage all of the pre-season training events that will tell the tale. It will tell me whether they learned from the 2023 debacle.
Quote from: MightyGiants on April 09, 2024, 03:53:56 PMI will say this: The Giants gave away a valuable (in terms of trading up if they wanted a quarterback) high second-round pick in the Burns trade. I have to think, at the very least, that precludes the Giants from trading up for a QB, and perhaps tips Schoen's overall draft intentions (that he is drafting a WR unless perhaps the right QB falls to him).
I don't think he ever seriously considered trading up for a QB because the top 3 teams all need QBs and are not going to trade down. And if they are going to move up to 4 or 5 they probably don't need the extra 2nd rounder to do it.
So I think he probably looked at it like the 2nd round pick might be great, he might be good, or he might be bad...but I KNOW Burns is great. So let me just go get that guy. Obviously a contract came along with the pick which can't be ignored but if Burns plays to the level he has, particularly with Dexter/Thibs on that line with him, he'll be worth every penny. And if he doesn't...well then that's on Schoen and he'll have to eat it.