I have listened to all the rumors and all the insiders. This is the best I can discern when it comes to the Giants desires for round one.
1) The Giants would like to draft a quarterback but on their terms. In other words, for the right price, the Giants would move up to take a QB, or they would take one if he falls to six.
2) Maye seems to be the quarterback the Giants have the most interest in. JJ is another QB the Giants may have interest in, but it doesn't sound like he would be a trade-up target
3) Failing to secure a QB, the Giants will sit at 6 and take the best WR on their board. I have no idea how the Giants have stacked the 3 WRs prospects
That's kind of how I see it too and I guess I'm fine with that.
Everything will start to turn on who the Commander's pick: Daniels or Maye. And then will NE stay put or trade.
Quote from: katkavage on April 23, 2024, 09:19:37 AMEverything will start to turn on who the Commander's pick: Daniels or Maye. And then will NE stay put or trade.
From everything I hear, Daniels is the favorite, but you never know
Quote from: MightyGiants on April 23, 2024, 09:01:56 AMI have listened to all the rumors and all the insiders. This is the best I can discern when it comes to the Giants desires for round one.
1) The Giants would like to draft a quarterback but on their terms. In other words, for the right price, the Giants would move up to take a QB, or they would take one if he falls to six.
2) Maye seems to be the quarterback the Giants have the most interest in. JJ is another QB the Giants may have interest in, but it doesn't sound like he would be a trade-up target
3) Failing to secure a QB, the Giants will sit at 6 and take the best WR on their board. I have no idea how the Giants have stacked the 3 WRs prospects
"....on THEIR terms...." is the key, and I 100% agree. If think if they felt one of these guys was another Peyton, Brady, Mahomes. A perennial MVP candidate who will at worst have his team in the play-offs almost every year, they would give up as much as they need to to get him. Think they view all these guys as, "They will be better than Jones, but not worth selling the farm."
I think their terms may be to trade no farther up than 4 but hopefully not have to then hope their QB falls to them and if not go WR.
Is this the worst kept secret at the moment?
I think this is all what we think will happen.
Quote from: MightyGiants on April 23, 2024, 09:26:08 AMFrom everything I hear, Daniels is the favorite, but you never know
Daniels was the HEAVY betting favorite to go #2 until very recently when reports started coming out that he wants no part of Washington. And now it's almost a pick em with Maye so who knows.
If he's able to force Washington to not take him and drop to 3 that might be in range for the Giants to make a move for him. Which I think they would at least try to do. New England might just take him themselves and never look back of course but that least forces the Giants to make a phone call. I don't think they would make that call for Maye or JJ. And all of this, of course, is based on my own hunches and no actual factual reporting.
Not too sure we need anotehr thread to intimate that we have no idea. Unless we want to confirm any bias of being correct.
QB or WR - it's been this for months.
I do not see NE trading back. They are in disarray with a spoilt fanbase increasingly listless. Kraft knows he needs a QB to generate some hype and create a reason for fans to spend.
The perceived hot QB market may be leading other teams to ask for potentially unrealistic packages to trade back (lots of rumours that it would take "historic" deals to shift AZ or LAC). Will they shift position on draft day? Is Minnesota or Denver desperate enough to massively overpay? Maybe.
Thankfully we will know soon!
Quote from: londonblue on April 23, 2024, 11:04:07 AMI do not see NE trading back. They are in disarray with a spoilt fanbase increasingly listless. Kraft knows he needs a QB to generate some hype and create a reason for fans to spend.
The perceived hot QB market may be leading other teams to ask for potentially unrealistic packages to trade back (lots of rumours that it would take "historic" deals to shift AZ or LAC). Will they shift position on draft day? Is Minnesota or Denver desperate enough to massively overpay? Maybe.
Thankfully we will know soon!
I looked at New England's offensive lineup via PFF, and I posted the Athletic article on the team's infrastructure for a new QB. I think the Pats are better prepared to draft and develop a QB than people think. As the saying goes, you hope not to be drafting this high again, so if a quality QB prospect is there for you to draft...
I have to thing taking any two of the top 4, there will be a QB New England can see as their franchise QB moving forward.
Quote from: MightyGiants on April 23, 2024, 09:01:56 AMI have listened to all the rumors and all the insiders. This is the best I can discern when it comes to the Giants desires for round one.
1) The Giants would like to draft a quarterback but on their terms. In other words, for the right price, the Giants would move up to take a QB, or they would take one if he falls to six.
2) Maye seems to be the quarterback the Giants have the most interest in. JJ is another QB the Giants may have interest in, but it doesn't sound like he would be a trade-up target
3) Failing to secure a QB, the Giants will sit at 6 and take the best WR on their board. I have no idea how the Giants have stacked the 3 WRs prospects
At the end of the regular season I wanted them to draft a quarterback. At that point in time not many were predicting as many as four quarterbacks to go in the first five picks and we would likely have the chance to draft Daniels or McCarthy at six. Now I hope they don't. Don't get me wrong we desperately need an upgrade but with the current supporting cast I don't think it's wise to package a bunch of picks to move up and get the guy we want. We still have too many holes on offense and would likely be setting that guy up for failure.
At this point I'd be more interested in dropping from six to the 9-13 range. That would give us the chance to draft a guy like Thomas out of LSU and give us another first round pick to move up in next years draft to get Jones replacement. I know some will say that next years qb class will be weak, and to some degree it will, but there will be at least two or three qb prospects with a high first round grade. Very few people had Jayden Daniel's blowing up and going as high as second or third overall at this point last year. Every year someone blows up. There are several college quarterbacks this year that had really nice seasons who could develop into that can't miss guy. Sanders, Ewers and Cam Ward come to mind. We're stuck with Jones for this year. Finish rebuilding the line and the skill position players and then go big for a qb next year.
Quote from: madbadger on April 23, 2024, 11:20:05 AMAt the end of the regular season I wanted them to draft a quarterback. At that point in time not many were predicting as many as four quarterbacks to go in the first five picks and we would likely have the chance to draft Daniels or McCarthy at six. Now I hope they don't. Don't get me wrong we desperately need an upgrade but with the current supporting cast I don't think it's wise to package a bunch of picks to move up and get the guy we want. We still have too many holes on offense and would likely be setting that guy up for failure.
At this point I'd be more interested in dropping from six to the 9-13 range. That would give us the chance to draft a guy like Thomas out of LSU and give us another first round pick to move up in next years draft to get Jones replacement. I know some will say that next years qb class will be weak, and to some degree it will, but there will be at least two or three qb prospects with a high first round grade. Very few people had Jayden Daniel's blowing up and going as high as second or third overall at this point last year. Every year someone blows up. There are several college quarterbacks this year that had really nice seasons who could develop into that can't miss guy. Sanders, Ewers and Cam Ward come to mind. We're stuck with Jones for this year. Finish rebuilding the line and the skill position players and then go big for a qb next year.
One thing I remember from Schoen's presser is his comment about the team not being a player or two away. I think that may indicate that Schoen shares your view.
Quote from: MightyGiants on April 23, 2024, 11:22:20 AMOne thing I remember from Schoen's presser is his comment about the team not being a player or two away. I think that may indicate that Schoen shares your view.
How much time does Schoen thinks he has left in his Giants tenure? If less he may swing for the fences this year and gamble on a QB.
Quote from: Philosophers on April 23, 2024, 11:29:19 AMHow much time does Schoen thinks he has left in his Giants tenure? If less he may swing for the fences this year and gamble on a QB.
I don't think Schoen's seat is as hot as many speculate. I don't really think Daboll's is either.
Quote from: Philosophers on April 23, 2024, 11:29:19 AMHow much time does Schoen thinks he has left in his Giants tenure? If less he may swing for the fences this year and gamble on a QB.
This reminds me of the Brandon Beane quote about moving up to draft Josh Allen:
"I mean, we got criticized a little bit for how much we gave up for Josh. And I'm like, 'Well, if he doesn't work out, I'm not going to be here anyway. And if he does work out, nobody's gonna give a s–t,'" said Beane
https://x.com/danfetes/status/1762569393723019735
Quote from: Philosophers on April 23, 2024, 11:29:19 AMHow much time does Schoen thinks he has left in his Giants tenure? If less he may swing for the fences this year and gamble on a QB.
IMHO both Schoen and Daboll are going to get at least four years, especially after they squeezed a playoff appearance out of a relatively untalented team. Mara is on record as saying that we can't continue to keep cycling through head coaches every three years. I suppose Daboll could be gone at the end of the year if he becomes more dictatorial and erratic than this past year but I think Schoen is safe.
Quote from: madbadger on April 23, 2024, 11:52:48 AMIMHO both Schoen and Daboll are going to get at least four years, especially after they squeezed a playoff appearance out of a relatively untalented team. Mara is on record as saying that we can't continue to keep cycling through head coaches every three years. I suppose Daboll could be gone at the end of the year if he becomes more dictatorial and erratic than this past year but I think Schoen is safe.
I can only see Daboll gone with not just a bad season, but a nuclear meltdown season. Everything has to go wrong and he has to respond to it poorly. Outside of that, I think he gets year 4 (now a survivably-bad season might make the question of him getting a second contract more murky, but that's a different concept).
I agree Schoen is going to get more rope, as this roster was laughably bad and poorly constructed when he came to the team. His first draft class is just entering their third season. There is some promise in that group (Kayvon, Wan'Dale, Flott, Belton, McFadden), even with warts (Neal, Ezeudu), that I think you give him the benefit of the doubt.
So they are taking a QB or a WR! Pretty sure that has been the sentiment for awhile now as it just makes too much sense.
Quote from: MightyGiants on April 23, 2024, 11:45:58 AMThis reminds me of the Brandon Beane quote about moving up to draft Josh Allen:
"I mean, we got criticized a little bit for how much we gave up for Josh. And I'm like, 'Well, if he doesn't work out, I'm not going to be here anyway. And if he does work out, nobody's gonna give a s–t,'" said Beane
https://x.com/danfetes/status/1762569393723019735
That quote is what got me thinking of how Schoen views his future tenure.
They need a great boundary receiver..go up..get it talent. Odunze is an obvious choice
Quote from: spiderblue43 on April 23, 2024, 01:53:41 PMThey need a great boundary receiver..go up..get it talent. Odunze is an obvious choice
They do for sure. I am not sure it has to be a 6'2" or 6'3" size WR. Remember Hakeem Nicks was only 6'0" and OBJ was only 5'11" and they played X. Both could as you said "go up and get it." Odunze is logical for sure. So is Brian Thomas.
Malik Nabers has the hands and explosiveness to go up to get it. My question continues to be with him is how much of his LSU production was from the X as opposed to the slot? I read in multiple places he played slot 50% of the time. If his production was 70% out of only 50% from the slot, that would not be a good fact.
https://www.bigblueview.com/2024/4/23/24138434/nfl-analyst-issues-impassioned-defense-of-giants-coach-brian-daboll-nfl-draft
Great article on why going Qb wouldn't be a bad move from an analyst that was in Buffalo for the Daboll-Allen start.
Quote from: Jclayton92 on April 23, 2024, 04:05:15 PMhttps://www.bigblueview.com/2024/4/23/24138434/nfl-analyst-issues-impassioned-defense-of-giants-coach-brian-daboll-nfl-draft
Great article on why going Qb wouldn't be a bad move from an analyst that was in Buffalo for the Daboll-Allen start.
There many obvious reasons why it would be a good move, but the most obvious is that the Giants don't have real quality at the position that is the most important in the sport.
I think the only intriguing question left that we haven't discussed is if JJ or any Qb is there at 6 and we trade back with the Vikings for 11 and 23 who are you taking? My answer would definitely likely surprise.
If they draft a QB it will show how tight our shortguse HC and Shoen are.
If no QB, will that is Shoen telling "shortfuse" you're on your own son.
Shoen's jpb is secure for at least a couple more years, maybe 3.
Shortfuse, the sands are running thru the hourglass.
Quote from: coggs on April 23, 2024, 09:28:28 AM"....on THEIR terms...." is the key, and I 100% agree. If think if they felt one of these guys was another Peyton, Brady, Mahomes. A perennial MVP candidate who will at worst have his team in the play-offs almost every year, they would give up as much as they need to to get him. Think they view all these guys as, "They will be better than Jones, but not worth selling the farm."
The Giants have never had a QB like that in the Superbowl era. Just sayin'.
Quote from: AZGiantFan on April 23, 2024, 08:59:04 PMThe Giants have never had a QB like that in the Superbowl era. Just sayin'.
I am aware. Few teams have, which is why I think if one of these guys fit that, they would do whatever they can to try to get him.
Quote from: coggs on April 24, 2024, 07:08:57 PMI am aware. Few teams have, which is why I think if one of these guys fit that, they would do whatever they can to try to get him.
That may be. But my point was that we won 4 Superbowls without ever having one.
Looking into my little crystal ball I would loooooooove the Giants to secure QB1. =D> Poor Daniel unfortunately has sustained too many injuries and is a greater risk with that neck moving forward. :hurt:
These Emoji's as the little kiddies would say are FIRE
As tight lipped as the Giants are, I think they are leaking draft intentions of wanting a QB one week prior, so that QB needy teams get anxious and trade up ahead of them, which leaves the GMEN with several of the best non QB prospects to pick from.
Get ready for an explosive WR, but that is just my opinion, we will have to see how this transpires.
Quote from: coggs on April 24, 2024, 07:08:57 PMI am aware. Few teams have, which is why I think if one of these guys fit that, they would do whatever they can to try to get him.
Many teams spend decades chasing that player. Despite the rhetoric about continuing to draft quarterbacks until you find him and all of the talk about how the game has changed and its a quarterback driven passing league, the old paradigm remains in place where a regime really only gets to push the reset button once before the head coach gets fired, and the gm gets to push the reset button once on the head coach before he himself gets fired.
I believe this paradigm is somewhat outdated; a lot depends on the HC's credibly and past successes. For example, if a HC wins CoY, or a SB, they'll be given more opportunities to press the QB reset button. The rookie salary cap has also made it dramatically easier to move on from drafted QBs; it's no longer takes 5-years to recover from a poor QB draft decision.
For a few example, McVay will hit the reset button very soon to replace Stafford (injury/age). Does anyone believe his job is in jeopardy? It wasn't when he hit the reset button from Goff to Stafford. It's likely he'll need to hit the reset button 3x in 6 years. Mike Tomlin hit the reset button on Kenny Pickens after one year, and only "solved" the issue for one season...he'll have to address it again next year. Is his job in jeopardy? Shanahan hit the QB reset button 3x, going from Garoppolo-to-Lance-to-Purdy; his job was never in jeopardy.
I truly believe that fans are focused on the all the mock drafts, media pundits, etc., and the teams are paying a lot of attention to the interviews, time with a prospect watching video together and breaking down film, etc., and being observational as to leadership skills. This is where I think JJ is distancing himself from Maye. Unless a team jumps the Giants and drafts JJ, I believe he is going to be a Giant at 6.
DJ has looked "shocked" at being an NFL QB. He works tirelessly but the stage looks too big for him. JJ is going to embrace being an NFL QB and his teammates are going rally around him.
Quote from: kingm56 on April 25, 2024, 08:13:40 AMI believe this paradigm is somewhat outdated; a lot depends on the HC's credibly and past successes. For example, if a HC wins CoY, or a SB, they'll be given more opportunities to press the QB reset button. The rookie salary cap has also made it dramatically easier to move on from drafted QBs; it's no longer takes 5-years to recover from a poor QB draft decision.
For a few example, McVay will hit the reset button very soon to replace Stafford (injury/age). Does anyone believe his job is in jeopardy? It wasn't when he hit the reset button from Goff to Stafford. It's likely he'll need to hit the reset button 3x in 6 years. Mike Tomlin hit the reset button on Kenny Pickens after one year, and only "solved" the issue for one season...he'll have to address it again next year. Is his job in jeopardy? Shanahan hit the QB reset button 3x, going from Garoppolo-to-Lance-to-Purdy; his job was never in jeopardy.
Of course there's going to be exceptions.
Quote from: TONKA56 on April 25, 2024, 08:42:36 AMOf course there's going to be exceptions.
Fair enough, my friend. I think we're a lot of teams fail is drafting the wrong guy after hitting the reset button. NYJ come to mind. Otherwise, your good point is well taken.
Quote from: kingm56 on April 25, 2024, 08:57:56 AMFair enough, my friend. I think we're a lot of teams fail is drafting the wrong guy after hitting the reset button. NYJ come to mind. Otherwise, your good point is well taken.
Or sometimes the guy just can't stay healthy. 🤷
If you find a good enough coach they'll get plenty of chances. Tomlins got to hit reset a few times now.