Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: BluesCruz on October 04, 2023, 11:20:56 AMall this talk reminds me of a dog chasing its tail

The season is not over.  12 games to go

A turnaround would be nice, maybe improbable but possible

I have not thrown in the towel as yet.   lets see how it all plays out before building a gallows

They have the Dolphins and Bills up next on their schedule.  Last week was as close to a must win as you can have and they not only lost, they were non-competitive.  The only way they can hang with either of these next two teams is if those teams completely take the week off as far as preparations go believing they could show up without any practice and still whip the Giants.  And to be honest, those teams are so good they might be able to actually do it.

I would like to see Pugh and Neal as the guards.  Maybe let Neal go to the left side since he looked like an all pro in college at LT so maybe his brain can't convert to the right? Pugh goes to the right. And then draw straws for who gets to play RT

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on October 04, 2023, 07:58:14 AMI agree, although at least Schoen exhibited some degree of discipline with both Jones and Barkley. Both are still on the team, but he didn't cave to Barkley's demands, and the Jones contract, while clearly a substantial investment, is structured very differently from the way the Herbert/Lamar/Burrow contracts are, and I don't just mean the size of the AAV.

I agree that the 2022 season probably did the franchise no favors in terms of the medium term, but I do think Schoen was careful to not over-commit to the staples of it and left himself some outs.

That's a good point too. Gettleman would have tied a Jones/Barkley anchor around this team for the next 5 years. At least Schoen appeared to hedge his bet with Jones being able to get out after next season and Barkley being gone after this one.

If they have a chance to take a QB they should do that. Let him sit a year while Jones takes a beating next season and then start the rookie after that when hopefully Jones is off the books so that money can be allocated to the 71 holes that need to be plugged.

Let's try him at guard and find out. Cause it's pretty clear he's not a tackle.

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on October 04, 2023, 06:38:25 AMWas Gettleman that heavily attacked by the fans 1.25 years into his tenure? I honestly don't remember but I doubt it.

Also, were you unhappy with Schoen just after last season, when we won our first playoff game in a decade a year after he and his hand-picked, coach of the year-winning coach took over? I'll speak for myself but I thought that was a pretty darn good first year given what was handed to him.

So while I in no way am "giving anyone a pass", I think it's a little early to throw the guy completely under the bus. Obviously if this season ends up being the disaster that it is already starting to look like it's going to be, then the view on Schoen will be different than it was last February.

But I'm not ready to just jump ship right now and say this guy is a bad GM or has done a terrible job overall. No GM is perfect, where every single decision they make works out well. That wasn't true with George Young or Ernie Accorsi, or anyone else in the league.

Agreed. This was always going to take a couple years to climb out of the gettleman hole. 2024 always should have been the target. What happened last year, while fun in the moment, hurt them in the long run.  If they had this season last year there's no Jones no Barkley and a fresh rebuild happening which is what they desperately need.

Schoens biggest mistake so far for me is not seeing last year as the mirage it was and thinking they could compete for anything this year.

Quote from: Trench on October 04, 2023, 03:09:01 AMAs was stated some of those sacks were on Jones

Yep.

https://x.com/danorlovsky7/status/1709323680130494468?s=46&t=ztHQkdrs2C-vkXmhNZla-g

Quote from: T200 on October 03, 2023, 03:54:42 PMIf he tosses that over Campbell's and Witherspoon's heads, it's a TD. The animation clearly shows it.

Not only that...but if he panics and decides screw this I'm just getting rid of this thing before the OL collapses he has an open Wandale out wide.  Even if he doesn't get the TD it's an easy completion and they live for 3rd down.  He did the only thing he absolutely couldn't do on that play.  I get Daboll's frustration.  There's simply no excuse.

Orlovsky was just on McAfee's show saying of the 11 sacks he put 4 on the OL and 6 on the QB, either not getting the protection right or scrambling into the sack when he didn't need to. 

(the last one being that lateral play to campbell that is considered a sack for some reason)

Sign him to the starting job.  I don't much care if it's at OT or OG at this point he's significantly better than anybody the Giants are currently trotting out there.

Quote from: Rambo89 on October 03, 2023, 11:52:03 AMHe got drafted so high because he was coached by David Cutcliffe who has a good reputation with QB's.  He was drafted 6th overall because of that and John Mara's desire to find the next Eli which he thought Jones was because of Cutcliffe and Jones's personality being similar to Eli.

And Gettleman fell in love at the Senior Bowl.

Quote from: TDToomer on October 03, 2023, 11:16:12 AMThey have got to bring Justin Pugh in for a workout right?

They already did once. He left without a contract. Apparently so Shane could get more reps at sucking.

That is an unstoppable play except when the Giants run it apparently. It should be illegal since defenders can't do the same thing so why should the offense. I didn't mind the call at all because again...it should be an unstoppable play. They just couldn't even execute THAT properly yesterday.

Did winning last season, including a playoff game, do more harm than good?

At the time I didn't think so, assuming that the front office/team would understand that the team wasn't as good as their record indicated and would plan accordingly.  I think now that it may well have hurt the team to win all those flukey games. 

Because without those wins, Jones is gone as was originally the plan when they didn't pick up his 5th year. Beyond that, the Giants would be committed to the rebuild.  They would likely not have traded picks for pieces (even if I still think the Waller trade was too good to pass up) and we could be targeting next season for the turnaround as they should have been all along.

Imagine a world where Tyrod Taylor is starting, the team is just as bad as it is now, only they are planning building and preparing a team for a rookie QB coming in to start 2024.  Which would then open a 5 year window where the QB is cheap and that money can be spent on....well...everything else because the team needs everything right now.

Time for Schoen and company to take a good hard look at this team and adjust plans accordingly.  The fire sale should start immediately.  Everybody but Thomas and the guys they drafted the last two years, should be made available.  Including Daniel Jones if you can find a team willing to take him.  Collect as many picks as you possibly can and try like hell to put yourself in a position to draft a new QB.

Quote from: Sav on October 03, 2023, 07:52:01 AMI don't know how anyone can be blaming Jones for this year. He is getting destroyed back there. Now, to answer your question. The Giants overachieved last year and people came into the year with some unrealistic expectations. This is a WR driven league. All the good teams have an elite WR:
Eagles have 2
Buff-Diggs
Miami has 2
Dallas has Lamb
Det has St Brown
KC has Kelce
SF has 3
And they have coaches who design plays to get the ball in their hands as much as possible.
The Giants don't have one player like that, and even if we did, the line is not giving the quarterback enough time to reach one. Many teams across the NFL have the same problem. Look at Cincinnati, the Jets have the same problem. It seems many teams across the NFL have a problem on the offensive line , it's not like the Giants havent addressed this problem through the draft in the last couple of years, they have, but the team is not deep enough to withstand the injuries. And they have too many holes everywhere to be addressing it again in the draft. � but with all the holes on the team, the Giants are not gonna take that next step without that elite play making receiver, people want to give up on Jones already, but I would argue that Marvin Harrison jr �would help this team more than any of the quarterbacks in the draft. You need that guy who is gonna give you leads by making a play to get 6, getting a 1st down to keep a drive going, a guy who is gonna scare the hell out of DCs. We do not have that guy. And I don't feel we are using guys correctly, anyone who is watched Hyatt play at Tennessee knows what he brings to the table as a deep threat. I think he's run one go route in four games and it was successful. Now I know Jones doesn't have the time to make those throws but You got a find a way at least once a quarter �

The problem is when he does get the time to make that play he very often doesn't. That OL was disgusting yesterday. But even with that an average QB could have made it 14-10 in the 3rd quarter. Hell a below average QB could have seen Waller running wide freaking open. And if you're not going to throw it to the open guy in the end zone tuck it and run. Just for the love of God don't throw a back breaking game ending INT!  The OL should be ashamed of themselves after that performance but I'd argue Jones should too.

Caleb Williams. That's what I want to see.