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In your mind, is Daniel Jones now officially a bust?

Started by DaveBrown74, November 12, 2023, 06:23:19 AM

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In your mind, is Daniel Jones a confirmed bust?

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DaveBrown74

November 12, 2023, 06:23:19 AM
Daniel Jones is in his fifth year on the Giants, and his season is over. While it seems almost 100% certain he will be on the team next year due to the seeming impossibility of anyone wanting to take on his contract, it is unclear that he will ever take another regular season snap for the Giants again. Either way, his days as a Giant seem numbered, and it is certainly possible he may never play for us again.

Would you label Daniel Jones a confirmed bust at this point? Why or why not?

EDjohnst1981

#1
November 12, 2023, 07:34:58 AM
I think if this were a team we were looking in from the outside, it would be an unequivocal yes.

There have been issues around line and supporting cast yet his best season of 3200 air yards, 15 passing TDs, 700 rushing yard and a further 7 TDs probably can't be viewed as an elite season. He's had little help today but Taylor looked slightly better when he came in this season so I don't think he was worth either the 6th pick or the subsequent extension.

It's not all on him but he's not played well enough to make things better either and that's what you want from a "franchise" QB. Look at the first throw last week that he airmailed - WtF was that?

I'm hopeful (and thankful) the giants are finally moving on from him. He doesn't produce enough nor can stay on the field.

The contract, with the now-accepted two year out, is an aberration, which puts Schoen under a ton of pressure too. 

Ed Vette

#2
November 12, 2023, 08:51:36 AM Last Edit: November 12, 2023, 08:59:10 AM by Ed Vette
Quote from: Bob In PA on November 12, 2023, 08:21:15 AMAny member who answers "yes" MUST ALSO believe our management team and/or head coach are also busts.

Otherwise, a "yes" vote makes no sense since THEY signed the bust to a multi-year contract just this year.

So I'll ask anyone who sees this to also address THAT issue.

Bob
They gave him a two year prove it deal while the team was rebuilding. Schoen protected the team and he clearly had reservations. And I do believe that Mara injected his input, otherwise he may not have even been signed.
"There is a greater purpose...that purpose is team. Winning, losing, playing hard, playing well, doing it for each other, winning the right way, winning the right way is a very important thing to me... Championships are won by teams who love one another, who respect one another, and play for and support one another."
~ Coach Tom Coughlin

MightyGiants

#3
November 12, 2023, 08:52:09 AM
SMART, TOUGH, DEPENDABLE

Bob In PA

#4
November 12, 2023, 08:56:07 AM
Quote from: MightyGiants on November 12, 2023, 08:52:09 AMhttps://x.com/marcus3255/status/1723683598618755158?s=20
Rich: So you finally realized it's better to just re-post viewpoints than to write your own and come under DIRECT attack?

=))  =))  =))  =))  =))  =))  =))  =))  =))  =))  =))  =))  =))  =))  =))  =))  =))  =))  =))  =))  =))  =))  =))
If Jeff Hostetler could do it, Daniel Jones can do it !!!

Ed Vette

#5
November 12, 2023, 09:01:11 AM
Quote from: Bob In PA on November 12, 2023, 08:56:07 AMRich: So you finally realized it's better to just re-post viewpoints than to write your own and come under DIRECT attack?

=))  =))  =))  =))  =))  =))  =))  =))  =))  =))  =))  =))  =))  =))  =))  =))  =))  =))  =))  =))  =))  =))  =))
Leave Rich alone, Bob. He's still licking his wounds.

Just kidding.

I think at this point, Rich is 50/50 and would accept any outcome.
"There is a greater purpose...that purpose is team. Winning, losing, playing hard, playing well, doing it for each other, winning the right way, winning the right way is a very important thing to me... Championships are won by teams who love one another, who respect one another, and play for and support one another."
~ Coach Tom Coughlin

Bob In PA

#6
November 12, 2023, 09:03:38 AM
Quote from: Ed Vette on November 12, 2023, 09:01:11 AMLeave Rich alone, Bob. He's still licking his wounds.

Just kidding.

I think at this point, Rich is 50/50 and would accept any outcome.

Ed: If I didn't agree 100 percent with your post, I would not have ventured into "joke" territory. Bob
If Jeff Hostetler could do it, Daniel Jones can do it !!!

katkavage

#7
November 12, 2023, 09:42:55 AM
No, he's not a bust. He played for the team, contributed, won a few games for them (against bad teams mostly), so I would say he just wasn't nearly as good as assumed for being drafted so high. That doesn't make him a bust. To me, a bust barely would see the field. Zach Wilson is coming close to being a bust. Josh Rosen was a bust.

DaveBrown74

#8
November 12, 2023, 09:54:51 AM
Quote from: katkavage on November 12, 2023, 09:42:55 AMNo, he's not a bust. He played for the team, contributed, won a few games for them (against bad teams mostly), so I would say he just wasn't nearly as good as assumed for being drafted so high. That doesn't make him a bust. To me, a bust barely would see the field. Zach Wilson is coming close to being a bust. Josh Rosen was a bust.

When I created this thread/poll, I did it knowing that people's definition of the word "bust" would vary. And hence I didn't see the poll being that one-sided (albeit I will admit I expected a majority to vote YES).

But back to the word "bust" in the sports sense, to me it means any player who has significant promise entering the league and falls very significantly short of expectations. In my opinion, it is fair to say that about Jones. However, I respect that some don't feel that way, and I certainly would agree that players like Josh Rosen are more cut and dry examples.

MightyGiants

#9
November 12, 2023, 10:04:05 AM
QuoteRich: So you finally realized it's better to just re-post viewpoints than to write your own and come under DIRECT attack?

=))  =))  =))  =))  =))  =))  =))  =))  =))  =))  =))  =))  =))  =))  =))  =))  =))  =))  =))  =))  =))  =))  =))

Bob,

I appreciate the joke, although I always post Twitter responses here.  Frankly, I don't have an answer to the question posed.  I mean, it's pretty clear Jones was a starter his 4 years, won a playoff game with subpar talent, and got signed to a second contract.  So, it's sort of difficult to wrap one's head around the question as the answer seems pretty apparent.

However, it appears the Giants are now likely to draft a new QB.  How the Giants got to that point in less than half a season when it appeared that the Giants had their franchise QB (who looked great in training camp and a brief PS appearance) and were ready to compete is a rather complex topic that doesn't lend itself to this rather simplistic question that creates a rigid framing that doesn't allow one to explore the complexities of the issue.

At some point in the future, I will share my thoughts on this issue, but I am simply not ready.  I am still processing and considering the events that happened and I don't feel I am fully prepared to lay out what I think happened and why.
SMART, TOUGH, DEPENDABLE

Bob In PA

#10
November 12, 2023, 10:13:34 AM
Quote from: MightyGiants on November 12, 2023, 10:04:05 AMI appreciate the joke, although I always post Twitter responses here.
But seldom without at least a few words of commentary. I was waiting for one just like that (no commentary, and the quote actually answered the exact question asked in the title) before I could attempt to make that particular joke (as you probably know, it's tough to be funny in person... and even more difficult in print).

Quote from: MightyGiants on November 12, 2023, 10:04:05 AMAt some point in the future, I will share my thoughts on this issue, but I am simply not ready.  I am still processing and considering the events that happened and I don't feel I am fully prepared to lay out what I think happened and why.
Me too.

Bob
If Jeff Hostetler could do it, Daniel Jones can do it !!!

DaveBrown74

#11
November 12, 2023, 10:24:07 AM
Quote from: MightyGiants on November 12, 2023, 10:04:05 AMBob,

I appreciate the joke, although I always post Twitter responses here.  Frankly, I don't have an answer to the question posed.  I mean, it's pretty clear Jones was a starter his 4 years, won a playoff game with subpar talent, and got signed to a second contract.  So, it's sort of difficult to wrap one's head around the question as the answer seems pretty apparent.

However, it appears the Giants are now likely to draft a new QB.  How the Giants got to that point in less than half a season when it appeared that the Giants had their franchise QB (who looked great in training camp and a brief PS appearance) and were ready to compete is a rather complex topic that doesn't lend itself to this rather simplistic question that creates a rigid framing that doesn't allow one to explore the complexities of the issue.

At some point in the future, I will share my thoughts on this issue, but I am simply not ready.  I am still processing and considering the events that happened and I don't feel I am fully prepared to lay out what I think happened and why.

Rich,

A couple of things:

(1) As I mentioned in a different post in this thread, answers to the OP will vary in part due to people's varying definition's of the term "bust" (as it applies to athletes). I appreciate you have your precise definition, but others may view the term differently. If it were as cut and dry and as you are suggesting, the polling responses would be overwhelming skewed towards NO, which, so far at least, they are not.

(2) The OP question may be simplistic and straightforward in nature, but many OP thread questions are simplistic and designed to lead to a more detailed and complex discussion in the thread. That is the intention here, and some members have already begun to respond in a way that lends itself to that objective.

Ed Vette

#12
November 12, 2023, 10:56:16 AM
Based on the expectations coming into the league, I would say his expectations were not high. Many claimed he was over-drafted. Based on the fact that he won a playoff game coming off a decent season and then received a 40 million-dollar contract, then he surely busted this year. That expectation was that he was looking to be that Franchise QB and his play and injuries negated that expectation.

In the true sense of the term Bust, he was not in the category of a Rosen, Akili Smith, Harrington or Ryan Leaf.
"There is a greater purpose...that purpose is team. Winning, losing, playing hard, playing well, doing it for each other, winning the right way, winning the right way is a very important thing to me... Championships are won by teams who love one another, who respect one another, and play for and support one another."
~ Coach Tom Coughlin

andrew_nyGiants

#13
November 12, 2023, 10:58:56 AM
I believe that in relationship to the investment of draft pick and subsequent contract, that he IS a bust.

His two biggest weaknesses in my view (his pocket awareness and ability to find the best choice in his progressions) both paralyzed his growth and cost him time due to injury.

To address Bob's follow up question as to whether the FO is also a bust due to the contract, I will answer YES to that too. But with the proviso that there is one common thread connecting to the draft pick and the contract and that would be the Maras.

I do blame Schoen and Daboll for not pushing back harder on the contract extension, as I'm not convinced that either of them were truly sold on DJ.

Watching Daboll coaching him this year and his reaction to DJ's injuries influenced me into believing that he was done with DJ.

Those are my thoughts.


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From Simms to Eli (with an assist from Hoss) our Super Bowl Quarterbacks. Great defense and clutch QB performances...NY Giants Championship football.

I have an old profile still floating around: andrew_nyg....I am one and the same!

SUPERSEE

#14
November 12, 2023, 11:10:58 AM
he was a bust when he got here. he doesn't have the vision for this level


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